Marc Bergevin: Real Madrid ne font pas les séries ou va pas au Mondial Edition

What do you want to do with Bergevin?

  • Should be to be fired

  • Be patient

  • Keep him is doing a good job


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NotProkofievian

Registered User
Nov 29, 2011
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I'm quite sure that most of the First-Language French posters here that have commented have been on the "hire the best person available" side of things. This hiring policy is the offspring of the capitulation of Molson to a handful of rabble rousers.

By the way, how effective in terms of winning has this policy been?

There's not a poster here who doesn't want a francophone coach or GM if he is the best man for the job.

I don't really understand the narrative that, if a French speaking coach isn't hired, somehow the French speaking fans aren't being ''respected.'' They'd no longer be pandered to, sure, but have French speakers felt respected by this organization recently? Has anyone?



Now, as it stands, we hired some, by all indications, fantastic francophone hockey minds this off-season. I have no problem with that. But that's also not what happened when Bergevin showed up. We hired a goon who had no business being on the list, let alone being hired.
 

Runner77

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Jun 24, 2012
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Habs should fire Bergy and hire Mark Hunter.....today

This is the best shot they'll ever have at a Mark Hunter, an ex-Hab to boot. He wouldn't be too far from the territory he scouts in Ontario and would represent a tremendous asset. I just hate the fact of such a quality individual being available and there's not a damn thing they're going to do about it.
 

Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
Jun 6, 2010
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This is the best shot they'll ever have at a Mark Hunter, an ex-Hab to boot. He wouldn't be too far from the territory he scouts in Ontario and would represent a tremendous asset. I just hate the fact of such a quality individual being available and there's not a damn thing they're going to do about it.

Is Hunter really that good though? His main claim as a "tremendous asset" is the league-wide opinion of his scouting ability. Which is Bergevin's calling card.
And Toronto's drafting outside of more obvious picks isn't really great.

Is he going to fix Montreal's pro-scouting? Is he going to modernize their player evaluation? Is he going to avoid going after the same types of guys Bergevin does? I'm skeptical.
 

Deebs

Let's swim to the moon
Feb 5, 2014
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This is the best shot they'll ever have at a Mark Hunter, an ex-Hab to boot. He wouldn't be too far from the territory he scouts in Ontario and would represent a tremendous asset. I just hate the fact of such a quality individual being available and there's not a damn thing they're going to do about it.
Absolutely. He's a new age thinking hockey guy, not one living in the past. Like you say, he had ties to the club and it shouldn't cause as big of issue regarding the French requirement thing.

I wish they would, but, they won't
 

justafan22

Registered User
Jun 22, 2014
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Hunter isn't being hired here since he doesn't speak french.

Why would he come to a team and not get a promotion. He'd have to report to bergevin here
 

Runner77

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Hunter isn't being hired here since he doesn't speak french.

Why would he come to a team and not get a promotion. He'd have to report to bergevin here

Speaking French has nothing to do with the job he'd be asked to undertake. A lot of Bergevin's scouting staff doesn't speak French and they don't need to -- their job is not to address fans and do weekly pressers -- they're simply reporting to the GM and scouting heads. They don't need to speak French to be able to do that.

If this were the applicable standard, we would be deprived of a ton of qualified scouts. It's not what's at play here.
 

DAChampion

Registered User
May 28, 2011
29,782
20,934
I hope that I'm able to like and to respect the next GM.

Gainey was mostly good, but he had these weird traits. He didn't negotiate with players during the season and thus the Habs led the league in losing UFAs for nothing. He almost sold half the team for Lecavalier. However, the drafting and development was good under Gainey, they gave chances to young players and it paid off. The contracts were decent. The players respected him.

Gauthier was intelligent, and did some good things such as properly tanking & selling in 2012 (which Gainey and Bergevin were not able to do in 2009, 2016, and 2018), and the team was slowly getting bigger up front. The Habs performed honorably in the 2010 and 2011 playoffs. The development was decent. But, he was a nerd, he had poor leadership skills, he banned cheese on flights, he referred to Gomez as "Mr. Gomez", and these traits of his likely contributed to a toxic work environment.

Bergevin is a moron, a coward, a narcissist, and a bigot. He's unqualified for his position, I've known this since the Subban contract negotiations of 2012. Others knew this from the Therrien hire. Others knew this when he assembled his staff out of people like Rick Dudley, he was hiring his friends rather than hiring the best people. He's since gotten worse and the past two years were an unmitigated catastrophe, resulting in Geoff Molson stepping in.

I assume that Bergevin is now a manager in name only (MINO), and that he'll be fired as soon as Molson is satisfied with the tank and accumulation of new prospects.

I hope that I can respect the next GM.
 

Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
Jun 6, 2010
20,340
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Absolutely. He's a new age thinking hockey guy, not one living in the past. Like you say, he had ties to the club and it shouldn't cause as big of issue regarding the French requirement thing.

I wish they would, but, they won't

He isn't really though. That's why Toronto went with Dubas instead of Hunter. Dubas is the one that ran Toronto's analytics department and player development departments and there was a lot of compartmentalizing in the Leafs front office. Dubas also ran Toronto's draft table in 2015 (according to a couple of Toronto reporters) which is the one under Shanahan that Toronto actually did well outside of the 1st round and didn't focus on size over skill.

He might me more open to newer thinking than Bergevin, but the reason he didn't get the job in Toronto is because he wasn't a new age thinking guy.
 
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BLONG7

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Oct 30, 2002
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He isn't really though. That's why Toronto went with Dubas instead of Hunter. Dubas is the one that ran Toronto's analytics department and player development departments and there was a lot of compartmentalizing in the Leafs front office. Dubas also ran Toronto's draft table in 2015 (according to a couple of Toronto reporters) which is the one under Shanahan that Toronto actually did well outside of the 1st round and didn't focus on size over skill.

He might me more open to newer thinking than Bergevin, but the reason he didn't get the job in Toronto is because he wasn't a new age thinking guy.
Habs fired their analytics guy, over the PK fiasco, and the Leafs take their analytics guy, and promote him to their GM...interesting eh guys.
 

Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
Jun 6, 2010
20,340
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Habs fired their analytics guy, over the PK fiasco, and the Leafs take their analytics guy, and promote him to their GM...interesting eh guys.

That's not really comparable. Pfeffer was a part-time analyst in Montreal and he's a full-time analyst in Nashville.

Dubas is former OHL scout and GM, former player agent and former NHL AGM who was in charge of Toronto's hockey research and development department which has a director and 4 full time analysts plus connections to other parts of hockey ops and guys that do contract work.

Toronto is so far ahead of Montreal in that regard its not even comparable. Most teams are far ahead of Montreal though, so its not a huge surprise.
 
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Bryson

#EugeneMolson
Jun 25, 2008
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I hope that I'm able to like and to respect the next GM.

Gainey was mostly good, but he had these weird traits. He didn't negotiate with players during the season and thus the Habs led the league in losing UFAs for nothing. He almost sold half the team for Lecavalier. However, the drafting and development was good under Gainey, they gave chances to young players and it paid off. The contracts were decent. The players respected him.

Gauthier was intelligent, and did some good things such as properly tanking & selling in 2012 (which Gainey and Bergevin were not able to do in 2009, 2016, and 2018), and the team was slowly getting bigger up front. The Habs performed honorably in the 2010 and 2011 playoffs. The development was decent. But, he was a nerd, he had poor leadership skills, he banned cheese on flights, he referred to Gomez as "Mr. Gomez", and these traits of his likely contributed to a toxic work environment.

Bergevin is a moron, a coward, a narcissist, and a bigot. He's unqualified for his position, I've known this since the Subban contract negotiations of 2012. Others knew this from the Therrien hire. Others knew this when he assembled his staff out of people like Rick Dudley, he was hiring his friends rather than hiring the best people. He's since gotten worse and the past two years were an unmitigated catastrophe, resulting in Geoff Molson stepping in.

I assume that Bergevin is now a manager in name only (MINO), and that he'll be fired as soon as Molson is satisfied with the tank and accumulation of new prospects.

I hope that I can respect the next GM.

Which player(s) did Gainey lose to UFA because he refused to negotiate during the season? And please don't say the 2009 season. He didn't lose those players because he failed to negotiate during the season. He didn't sign them because he didn't want them back. End of Story. Selling half the team for Lecavalier is a myth. The trade was Plekanec, Higgins and Gorges for Vinny LeCavalier. The latter were spare parts and LeCavalier was very much an upgrade over Plekanec. He put up 19 points in 18 games in the playoffs in 2011 for TBL. Maybe Habs win the Cup in 2010 with a real #1C to lead the charge and don't end up trading McDonagh for Gomez.

How many times have players took a nosedive right after getting a fat contract? Geoff Molson jumping the gun to extend Bergevin. All he had to do was wait one more month and he would have witnessed the epic collapse. Bergevin extending Plekanec, Carey Price, etc... he signed these players when their value was at their highest and both followed up their contracts with completely abysmal seasons.

People forget that Gainey EXCELLED at every facet of his professional career. His accomplishments as a player are well known. Four consecutive Selke awards and four consecutive Stanley Cups. The last true dynasty of the modern NHL. R.I.P.

He led the Minnesota North Stars to game six of the SC finals in his very first year as Head Coach. He turned around and literally built the Dallas Stars team that ultimately won the Stanley Cup and back to back presidents trophies with his bare hands when he acquired players like Joe Nieuwendyk, Brett Hull, Ed Belfour and Sergei Zubov. He brought respectability back to the Canadiens and undertook the monumental task of building the team back up after taking over from the dark years of Rejean Houle. The team came so close and I am convinced the Habs would have won the SC by now had he been allowed to continue his work, until MB completely destroyed the team. I mean Jesus Christ you literally could not find a more accomplished person if you tried. You think that doesn't deserve respect because you disagreed with one of his idiosyncrasies which is not proven to be wrong in the first place?

Our thoughts on Gauthier are the same. He was an intelligent man that did some good things but ultimately lacked the charisma to be a true longterm leader. That and No Parlez francais.

My thoughts on Bergevin are well known. The man is a nincompoop.
 

nhlfan9191

Registered User
Aug 4, 2010
19,585
17,344
Geoff Molson and Marc Bergevin are weasels and this team will never succeed as long as they are a part of this organization...




The guy brought up some good points. I never noticed Gallagher’s reaction after that goal against Columbus although it didn’t look good on Subban to be celebrating like that after embarrassing a rookie goalie. The Max Pacioretty part was pretty funny too. Captain Max can do no wrong while Therrien could always find a way to make it about only PK. No doubt there was tension, but the players that should’ve been moved were the ones Therrien loved like his own children. Only one who should’ve been kept was Gallagher, the rest are bums who should’ve been moved. They chose the wrong side.
 
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Kriss E

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May 3, 2007
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Which player(s) did Gainey lose to UFA because he refused to negotiate during the season? And please don't say the 2009 season. He didn't lose those players because he failed to negotiate during the season. He didn't sign them because he didn't want them back. End of Story. Selling half the team for Lecavalier is a myth. The trade was Plekanec, Higgins and Gorges for Vinny LeCavalier. The latter were spare parts and LeCavalier was very much an upgrade over Plekanec. He put up 19 points in 18 games in the playoffs in 2011 for TBL. Maybe Habs win the Cup in 2010 with a real #1C to lead the charge and don't end up trading McDonagh for Gomez.
That isn't any better. If he wanted no part in re-signing them, then he should have traded them.
 
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Electricity

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Aug 22, 2016
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I hope that I'm able to like and to respect the next GM.

Gainey was mostly good, but he had these weird traits. He didn't negotiate with players during the season and thus the Habs led the league in losing UFAs for nothing. He almost sold half the team for Lecavalier. However, the drafting and development was good under Gainey, they gave chances to young players and it paid off. The contracts were decent. The players respected him.

Gauthier was intelligent, and did some good things such as properly tanking & selling in 2012 (which Gainey and Bergevin were not able to do in 2009, 2016, and 2018), and the team was slowly getting bigger up front. The Habs performed honorably in the 2010 and 2011 playoffs. The development was decent. But, he was a nerd, he had poor leadership skills, he banned cheese on flights, he referred to Gomez as "Mr. Gomez", and these traits of his likely contributed to a toxic work environment.

Bergevin is a moron, a coward, a narcissist, and a bigot. He's unqualified for his position, I've known this since the Subban contract negotiations of 2012. Others knew this from the Therrien hire. Others knew this when he assembled his staff out of people like Rick Dudley, he was hiring his friends rather than hiring the best people. He's since gotten worse and the past two years were an unmitigated catastrophe, resulting in Geoff Molson stepping in.

I assume that Bergevin is now a manager in name only (MINO), and that he'll be fired as soon as Molson is satisfied with the tank and accumulation of new prospects.

I hope that I can respect the next GM.

Why did he ban the cheese?
 

DAChampion

Registered User
May 28, 2011
29,782
20,934
Why did he ban the cheese?
In 2012, if I recall correctly, Gauthier banned cheese on the Habs' flights. Normally such a small thing would be ignored, but in his case it was just an additional example of his neuroticism.

Which player(s) did Gainey lose to UFA because he refused to negotiate during the season? And please don't say the 2009 season. He didn't lose those players because he failed to negotiate during the season. He didn't sign them because he didn't want them back. End of Story. Selling half the team for Lecavalier is a myth. The trade was Plekanec, Higgins and Gorges for Vinny LeCavalier. The latter were spare parts and LeCavalier was very much an upgrade over Plekanec. He put up 19 points in 18 games in the playoffs in 2011 for TBL. Maybe Habs win the Cup in 2010 with a real #1C to lead the charge and don't end up trading McDonagh for Gomez.

How many times have players took a nosedive right after getting a fat contract? Geoff Molson jumping the gun to extend Bergevin. All he had to do was wait one more month and he would have witnessed the epic collapse. Bergevin extending Plekanec, Carey Price, etc... he signed these players when their value was at their highest and both followed up their contracts with completely abysmal seasons.

People forget that Gainey EXCELLED at every facet of his professional career. His accomplishments as a player are well known. Four consecutive Selke awards and four consecutive Stanley Cups. The last true dynasty of the modern NHL. R.I.P.

He led the Minnesota North Stars to game six of the SC finals in his very first year as Head Coach. He turned around and literally built the Dallas Stars team that ultimately won the Stanley Cup and back to back presidents trophies with his bare hands when he acquired players like Joe Nieuwendyk, Brett Hull, Ed Belfour and Sergei Zubov. He brought respectability back to the Canadiens and undertook the monumental task of building the team back up after taking over from the dark years of Rejean Houle. The team came so close and I am convinced the Habs would have won the SC by now had he been allowed to continue his work, until MB completely destroyed the team. I mean Jesus Christ you literally could not find a more accomplished person if you tried. You think that doesn't deserve respect because you disagreed with one of his idiosyncrasies which is not proven to be wrong in the first place?

Our thoughts on Gauthier are the same. He was an intelligent man that did some good things but ultimately lacked the charisma to be a true longterm leader. That and No Parlez francais.

My thoughts on Bergevin are well known. The man is a nincompoop.
That isn't any better. If he wanted no part in re-signing them, then he should have traded them.

Thanks Kriss.

I agree that teams should either trade valuable assets at the deadline, or re-sign them, unless they're competing for the Cup. St-Louis is a good example of this, in the past two years they traded away Kevin Shattenkirk and Paul Statsny at the deadlines for Erik Foley, a 1st rounder, a 4th rounder, Zach Sanford, Brad Malone, a 1st rounder, and a conditional 2nd rounder.

Gainey excelled at losing players for nothing and that was his most infuriating trade. He did trade Craig Rivet which was nice (it resulted in Pacioretty), but he did not trade Sourray and Streit at the deadlines. Sourray in particular would have fetched a gold mine. That was the era when 1st rounders were given out like candy.

The 2009 trade deadline was a catastrophe. Out of the recent GMs, Gauthier is the only one who had the wisdom to sell assets during a tank.

Gainey also discarded Francois Beauchemin, Ryan Hainsey, and Ryan McDonagh. On one of those thje discard was really dumb, he actually called a lot of the GMs and asked them to be generous and to not take the player on waivers. lol.

The idea that the Habs were going to get Lecavalier for Plekanec, Higgins, and Gorges is revisionist history. I remember the packages that were being discussed at the time and they were a lot more generous. Gainey mercifully struck out in acquiring Lecavalier, he also struck out in the extravagant contracts that he offered to Daniel Briere and Ryan Smythe.

On the other hand, the Habs might have won a cup in 2008 if they had succeeded in bringing in either Marian Hossa or Mats Sundin. The Habs offered the best package for both. The idiot GM in Atlanta preferred an inferior package from Pittsburgh. Sundin chose to not go to the Habs because he wanted to be a dick.
 

LyricalLyricist

Registered User
Aug 21, 2007
37,909
5,814
Montreal
I hope that I'm able to like and to respect the next GM.

Gainey was mostly good, but he had these weird traits. He didn't negotiate with players during the season and thus the Habs led the league in losing UFAs for nothing. He almost sold half the team for Lecavalier. However, the drafting and development was good under Gainey, they gave chances to young players and it paid off. The contracts were decent. The players respected him.

Gauthier was intelligent, and did some good things such as properly tanking & selling in 2012 (which Gainey and Bergevin were not able to do in 2009, 2016, and 2018), and the team was slowly getting bigger up front. The Habs performed honorably in the 2010 and 2011 playoffs. The development was decent. But, he was a nerd, he had poor leadership skills, he banned cheese on flights, he referred to Gomez as "Mr. Gomez", and these traits of his likely contributed to a toxic work environment.

Bergevin is a moron, a coward, a narcissist, and a bigot. He's unqualified for his position, I've known this since the Subban contract negotiations of 2012. Others knew this from the Therrien hire. Others knew this when he assembled his staff out of people like Rick Dudley, he was hiring his friends rather than hiring the best people. He's since gotten worse and the past two years were an unmitigated catastrophe, resulting in Geoff Molson stepping in.

I assume that Bergevin is now a manager in name only (MINO), and that he'll be fired as soon as Molson is satisfied with the tank and accumulation of new prospects.

I hope that I can respect the next GM.

Gauthier is a lot worse than you're claiming. He was in charge of pro scouting in his assistant GM tenure. He's responsible for Gomez, Niinimaa and others. It doesn't help he traded Cammalleri and Ramo and a 5th for Bourque, Holland and a 2nd. Just a flat out mistake. The kostitsyn and Gill deadline deals were good although I question how getting 2 2nds, slaney and geoffrion for gill and kostitsyn combined is that much more noteworthy than getting Rychel, Valiev and a 2nd for Plekanec alone.

The last legitimate GM this team has was Gainey. He had a vision, he restocked the prospect cupboard and our drafting was the best during his reign. The problem is how he ended things before passing the torch. Some of it may have been impacted by the news of his daughter but regardless it wasn't very promising.

MB has just failed to do anything substantial in the positive direction. 200% mediocre, no improvements, no elite drafting, no elite trading, nothing. He's got to go.

I hope the next GM is like Gainey prior to the end but maybe a little more aggressive.
 

Grate n Colorful Oz

Hutson Hawk
Jun 12, 2007
35,310
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Some people have a facility for learning other languages and some don't. Besides which, the job is to win games, not excel at languages. The technology exists to provide simultaneous translation anyway. This is about politics more than practicality and always has been. When the Expos were around no one assumed that the manager had to speak French. Same with the Als. Why should we assume it in hockey? There are fewer francophone players in the league today than ever before. Out of nearly 800 players you might have 50-100 francophones. The percentage in the coaching and managerial ranks is even lower. All you do by having these stupid arbitrary rules is limit your ability to hire or retain the best possible people.

Vladimir Guerrerro couldn't speak English or French. Nobody cared. Nobody loved Anthony Calvillo or Ben Cahoon any less because they couldn't speak French. And the fact that clowns like Claude Brochu or Michel Therrien were francophone didn't make people hate them any less either. It's about (or should be about) winning. "Winning uber alles".

Francophone fans need to accept the reality that the NHL is no longer a place where Quebec-born players or coaches take up as much space as they used to. Their numbers as a percentage of the overall league, gets smaller every year and it's not going to change. So any team that limits itself to hiring only from that tiny pool of talent is doomed. Doomed, I tells ya.

Quebec power, ostie!!!

Les f***ing têtes carrés, who cares?

Faut transposés nos insécurités sur un nationalisme exagéré. On a l'air vraiment ouvert d'esprit et progressiste de même, ha!
 
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Deebs

Let's swim to the moon
Feb 5, 2014
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He isn't really though. That's why Toronto went with Dubas instead of Hunter. Dubas is the one that ran Toronto's analytics department and player development departments and there was a lot of compartmentalizing in the Leafs front office. Dubas also ran Toronto's draft table in 2015 (according to a couple of Toronto reporters) which is the one under Shanahan that Toronto actually did well outside of the 1st round and didn't focus on size over skill.

He might me more open to newer thinking than Bergevin, but the reason he didn't get the job in Toronto is because he wasn't a new age thinking guy.

He is though. Dubas got it because Shanny has been grooming him for years.
 

Roke

Registered User
Jul 21, 2003
2,607
669
Winnipeg
He isn't really though. That's why Toronto went with Dubas instead of Hunter. Dubas is the one that ran Toronto's analytics department and player development departments and there was a lot of compartmentalizing in the Leafs front office. Dubas also ran Toronto's draft table in 2015 (according to a couple of Toronto reporters) which is the one under Shanahan that Toronto actually did well outside of the 1st round and didn't focus on size over skill.

He might me more open to newer thinking than Bergevin, but the reason he didn't get the job in Toronto is because he wasn't a new age thinking guy.

Yeah. When all the fluff pieces about Hunter are about his supposedly otherworldly scouting ability I don't think you can label him a new-age thinker. Shanahan's comments about being able to see behind closed doors up close the decisions made and not made and where people stood on the decisions are particularly important.

I don't think Hunter's anything special and believe Julien Brisebois has more upside than Hunter does. Hopefully Brisebois is still available in a year.
 
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