Eternal Leaf
Registered User
It's still early but both have been good additions.
Dermott is a step ahead despite his age, however, Rosen/Borgman look solid.
Dermott is a step ahead despite his age, however, Rosen/Borgman look solid.
Confirmed with Link: Maple Leafs Officially Sign Calle Rosen | Also Sign Andreas Borgman.
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7even
Offered and lost
So pumped for Dermott. When was the last time we hit on a pick outside the 1st? Brown?
Nithoniniel
Registered User
Borgman will not make the team, nor Marincin. As far as his skating goes, Borgman chasing the Sens player on the tying goal, he looked like he had heavy feet, just one example. Marner burned him in scrimmage for a breakaway. He has made some poor decisions with the puck, he screened Anderson on a goal last night attempting to block a shot awkwardly. He isnt ready.
Rosen and Dermott deserve to fight out the last LD spot and possibly both given games to start the year if they feel Polak isn't ready. Polak was ahead of Carrick on the depth chart in the playoffs. Carrick I could see being the bottom pair RD until Polak gets healthy, then he would sit or be insurance for Polak staying healthy. They won't go with 2 rookies on the bottom pair.
Rosen and Dermott deserve to fight out the last LD spot and possibly both given games to start the year if they feel Polak isn't ready. Polak was ahead of Carrick on the depth chart in the playoffs. Carrick I could see being the bottom pair RD until Polak gets healthy, then he would sit or be insurance for Polak staying healthy. They won't go with 2 rookies on the bottom pair.
bobermay
Registered User
I disagree... based on first game performances, I'd range Rosen > Dermott > Borgman... but its close... they'll be duking it out.
Its his first game on NA ice... let him play 2-3 more games before declaring such nonesense...
In case people weren't aware of ~ ages:
Dermott: 20.8 YO
Borgman: 22.25 YO
Carrick: 23.5 YO
Rosen: 23.7 YO
ToneBone03
Trust the Shanaplan
Absolutely loved what I saw from Borgman last night! It was the first time I've ever seen him play. Great first pass, heavy shot, and plays with sandpaper. He's quite sound positionally as well... don't recall seeing him get burned.
He looked good, sometimes out of place but looked good for first NHL level game. It will take him few games to adjust his game. He's not a polished skater so he has to play to his position and physical strength.
He is a bit on the slower ride, few times he did look slow and sluggish but there are slower player in NHL making a good living.
I think it will serve well to spend some time in the AHL. Play solid minutes, get NA coaching.
Rosen looked much more polished, that's not to take anything away from Borgman. He looked like a beast.
bobermay
Registered User
And this was kind of evident from thier last season in the SHL according to scouting reports...
Rosen was steady throughout the season (with some consistency issue), whereas Borgman's game kind of elevated as the season went on, and he exploded in the playoffs.
I was gonna say we've hit on some later picks fairly recently, with absolutely no luck in the 2nd, but yeah, Brown is currently the last non-1st rounder we've taken who's played more than 50 games in the NHL. From 09-12 it's only him and McKegg outisde the first round with 50+ games.
2006 was our last real good draft, where the only pick without a single game was Ruegsegger (everyone else has played at least 118 games). Our last 2nd rounder to make something of himself was Hayes in 08. Man our drafting was actually a lot worse than I remember.
From '13 on though, we've got a few non-1st rounders who look like they might carve out a career in the NHL, most of them 2nd rounders from 15/16 drafts...
veedubn1
Registered User
- Jun 7, 2010
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That's so painful to read. I knew it was bad.. but not that bad. Draft schmaft, eh?
I have liked them both so far. Very different players though. So far, only due to style of play, I think we can use a Borgman type more. Rosen skates well and moved the puck well though.
I thought Borgman played well but looked a bit raw. You can definitely see the potential there though.
As I said in the GDT, I thought Rosen looked like an NHL defenceman. He really stood out to me in the first game.
However, they've only played one game each. In the next week or so we should get a better look at these guys.
As I said in the GDT, I thought Rosen looked like an NHL defenceman. He really stood out to me in the first game.
However, they've only played one game each. In the next week or so we should get a better look at these guys.
mainly burke drafts if i remember.
we've hit homeruns in the past with komorov, stralman, hayes, reimer and i thought frattin actually had potential before he injured his knee. bergmann picks almost always had potential and i loved the risks, but otherwise, the burke era was a bust.
Nithoniniel
Registered User
Yeah. I've been talking for a while now how the differences between teams in the range of 16-60 picks is huge. Great drafting teams are really effective in this range, drafting a lot of NHLers and stars there. Anaheim for example has a hit rate at about 80% there. Not exactly bad players either. Leafs are on the other end of this, having nothing to show for our picks in that range so far.
This is one of the roads to consistent competitiveness in today's NHL. With good scouting you can get tremendous value from your picks in that range, since you can by far outpace the league average that dictates the price of the pick.
Polaris1010
Registered User
Can it last?
You know what they say about thoroughbred horse racing, when they breed for new Triple Crown champions. They say ...
"you breed the best, with the best, and hope for the best".
The NHL draft, they're betting on teenagers.
If someone had a good run, they could go on a bad run. Does reversion to mean work here? In other words, are draft results random, especially the later rounds?
No opinion for myself. Seems random though.
Randy Randerson
Registered User
Just heard an interview on 1050 with Babcock, he called Rosen's skating elite, and called Borgman "a huge man at 230lbs"
Randy Randerson
Registered User
"elite" seemed like high praise, and I hadn't seen or heard Borgman at near that size - listed coming into this season at around 205, some of the updated listings at 212. Either way, thought it was interesting
jrgtml67
Registered User
- Sep 12, 2011
- 5,457
- 945
said it on other pages--something is going on, lupul issue is 1 that may be holding up a possible trade that would allow us to keep both guys up.
otherwise it makes no sense, our management group isnt dumb, they know who is staying up (hence probably cyborg-carrick, were pairs in practice).
so why make them stew, and wait to be told? i think they have both been informed of where they stand, and who is being sent down IF BLANK DOES/DOESNT HAPPEN--fill in the blank--for me its a trade that is being held up by the lupul medical exam results..if somehow he passed thats a huge 5.5million dollar cap hit, so no trade AND means Martin/Brown or someone has to sit and really screws us up.
Fill in blank boys/girls--
otherwise it makes no sense, our management group isnt dumb, they know who is staying up (hence probably cyborg-carrick, were pairs in practice).
so why make them stew, and wait to be told? i think they have both been informed of where they stand, and who is being sent down IF BLANK DOES/DOESNT HAPPEN--fill in the blank--for me its a trade that is being held up by the lupul medical exam results..if somehow he passed thats a huge 5.5million dollar cap hit, so no trade AND means Martin/Brown or someone has to sit and really screws us up.
Fill in blank boys/girls--
Fogelhund
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- Sep 15, 2007
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and yet we had the full Lupul Cap hit last year without issue, and it was calculated in by most for us this year, and we would be fine... once Horton is on LTIR.
Randy Randerson
Registered User
I was more surprised by Borgman's weight, he's a gym rat but 230lbs is almost Polak size, could be a nice replacement big body and I hadn't thought about him in that mold
A more skilled polak. And to make kiwi happy, a polak that won't ice the puck 432789 times a game haha
jrgtml67
Registered User
- Sep 12, 2011
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even if lupul situation isnt a factor--which I believe you are correct, and my mistake--still begs the question why keep both up for an extra 2 practices?
I dont believe for second that Lou and crew havent decided who they are keeping. It was said on both TSN and Sportsnet last week that, the roster decisions were made up going into the weekend more than likely. Which I agree with. In the least saturday, sunday after they "slept on it." To be honest the only sleep they needed to decide anything would be on Rosen on Borgman you can argue each case and weigh the pros and cons, and still scratch your head. But Babcock also said "beauty of NHL is you can send guys down, call them up if you make a mistake, we will give it some time, ya know 8-10 games in and go from there." That quote I think pertains to more Moore than the swedes, but for both instances makes sense.
With Moore it would be bad hockey business to send him down, or sit him, based on a newly signed rookie who can play top minutes at the AHL and only get better. By doing that you give Moore the benefit of the doubt, as he is older, and a proven vet, who you just signed. You give him 8-10 games to prove himself (kind of like Enroth). If he doesnt work out, no problem, then you have done a good business deal. You gave the guy a chance, he knows he was outplayed, and if in those games he still looks as bad or not much better than he did, then you call up Miro, sit Moore/trade him. I think you will see a combo of Fehr and Moore used to start anyway (if we dont use Fehr in a trade). Unless Moore starts looking like Moore should look. Take the Kadri line, that line should have done much better in the preseason, but new expectations, new team for Marleau, who is a known slow starter, you have to give that line a regular season test before you start moving things around.
I swear I repeat myself here. Each to their own opinion, fine however; I ask why Rosen? Ok so great skater, thats nice, so is Rielly and Gardiner. Both the locked in veterans as well, great skaters but especially in the case of Rielly havent hit their respective offensive potentials yet. I look at this year and say for sure we see more from both, as we have a good foundation that was missing before, and our rookies arent rookies (big 3). Back to Rosen or Borgman issue. Now Borgman is a beast. He is big, strong, hits, plays with an edge, and no slouch in skating either...plus he has a better shot. Which leaf plays like that on the back end? No one. The only one that did from a physical stand point is Polak. With him out the door (and he is, I think we have him while he figures out where or what he is doing..his pain is there still so no way he stays), that leaves a physical presence void. I dont think we enter the season with Kadri (when he wants) Komarov and Martin as our only gritty guys. Id say Hyman but his grit is fighting for the puck in corners, not a hitter. You need a guy to throw a big check now and then, a threat of a hard blast from the point. Does he need work sure. But Rosen needs that as well. Rosen had 19 min of ice time good PP time in that last game 0 shots, Borgman 18.5 minutes and I think was on for 30 some odd seconds a the tail of a PP almost scored stepping around a defender in that instance, and had 3 shots. That all against a NHL lineup. Plus he got better as camp went on, I think Rosen stayed the same, and was at his worst the last game, when it was as close as you get to 2 NHL rosters. This is my opinion. All those factored in, I am sure our management has seen that and more. Either way I dont care, both are good players. I just side on Borgman's camp,
I dont believe for second that Lou and crew havent decided who they are keeping. It was said on both TSN and Sportsnet last week that, the roster decisions were made up going into the weekend more than likely. Which I agree with. In the least saturday, sunday after they "slept on it." To be honest the only sleep they needed to decide anything would be on Rosen on Borgman you can argue each case and weigh the pros and cons, and still scratch your head. But Babcock also said "beauty of NHL is you can send guys down, call them up if you make a mistake, we will give it some time, ya know 8-10 games in and go from there." That quote I think pertains to more Moore than the swedes, but for both instances makes sense.
With Moore it would be bad hockey business to send him down, or sit him, based on a newly signed rookie who can play top minutes at the AHL and only get better. By doing that you give Moore the benefit of the doubt, as he is older, and a proven vet, who you just signed. You give him 8-10 games to prove himself (kind of like Enroth). If he doesnt work out, no problem, then you have done a good business deal. You gave the guy a chance, he knows he was outplayed, and if in those games he still looks as bad or not much better than he did, then you call up Miro, sit Moore/trade him. I think you will see a combo of Fehr and Moore used to start anyway (if we dont use Fehr in a trade). Unless Moore starts looking like Moore should look. Take the Kadri line, that line should have done much better in the preseason, but new expectations, new team for Marleau, who is a known slow starter, you have to give that line a regular season test before you start moving things around.
I swear I repeat myself here. Each to their own opinion, fine however; I ask why Rosen? Ok so great skater, thats nice, so is Rielly and Gardiner. Both the locked in veterans as well, great skaters but especially in the case of Rielly havent hit their respective offensive potentials yet. I look at this year and say for sure we see more from both, as we have a good foundation that was missing before, and our rookies arent rookies (big 3). Back to Rosen or Borgman issue. Now Borgman is a beast. He is big, strong, hits, plays with an edge, and no slouch in skating either...plus he has a better shot. Which leaf plays like that on the back end? No one. The only one that did from a physical stand point is Polak. With him out the door (and he is, I think we have him while he figures out where or what he is doing..his pain is there still so no way he stays), that leaves a physical presence void. I dont think we enter the season with Kadri (when he wants) Komarov and Martin as our only gritty guys. Id say Hyman but his grit is fighting for the puck in corners, not a hitter. You need a guy to throw a big check now and then, a threat of a hard blast from the point. Does he need work sure. But Rosen needs that as well. Rosen had 19 min of ice time good PP time in that last game 0 shots, Borgman 18.5 minutes and I think was on for 30 some odd seconds a the tail of a PP almost scored stepping around a defender in that instance, and had 3 shots. That all against a NHL lineup. Plus he got better as camp went on, I think Rosen stayed the same, and was at his worst the last game, when it was as close as you get to 2 NHL rosters. This is my opinion. All those factored in, I am sure our management has seen that and more. Either way I dont care, both are good players. I just side on Borgman's camp,
Randy Randerson
Registered User
Polak with puck skills?
looks like both Dermott and Borgman are little body builders, it'll be nice to see the front of the net clear
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