Confirmed with Link: Maple Leafs Name Laurence Gilman Assistant General Manager

[crump]

Thought this was funny. On Gilman turning down the Hurricanes job.....

"term, money and job description turned out to be the sticking points."

Um..what else was there left?

I have been listening to some TSN overdrive podcasts and other Vanvouver based analysis of this hiring. Nothing but glowing reviews on this guy, multi- dimensional, smart, funny, personable and a wiz at CBA contract negotiations. Lots of experience running AHL teams already and even tutored Vegas on the expansion draft strategy.

 

[Liminality]

Thought this was funny. On Gilman turning down the Hurricanes job.....

"term, money and job description turned out to be the sticking points."

Um..what else was there left?

I have been listening to some TSN overdrive podcasts and other Vanvouver based analysis of this hiring. Nothing but glowing reviews on this guy, multi- dimensional, smart, funny, personable and a wiz at CBA contract negotiations. Lots of experience running AHL teams already and even tutored Vegas on the expansion draft strategy.

I know Gilman has been joining them on the radio in Vancouver and they might like him a little bit more cause of that. Gilman really does seem like a good fit for this organization though.

 

[JEI]

The interview he did with Custance on his hockey podcast was awesome. Really excited to see what he brings to the table.

 

[Daisy Jane]

The fact that all this youth came in at the same time and were successful and most have gotten better is a positive for Babcock, not a negative.

The negatives Nith have brought up such as obsessively line matching IMO have been necessary to ensure that kids coming in are put in a position to have success. We all rave over how great Dermott is but if he were caught on the ice with a lot of Riellys competition his confidence might be in a different spot by the end of the season.

As the core gets older I don’t think he’s going to be worried so much about matchups, but I suspect managing ice time is something that is going to drive fans nuts for a long time. And hilariously enough I suspect that’s coming from sports science staff and one fundamental thing this “stubborn coach” has changed substantially from his Detroit days.

i also feel a lot of people are forgetting how things were the last while in Detroit. a lot of those teams weren't even supposed to be world beaters (or even make the playoffs), but Babcock did a lot to help them get into the playoffs. People keep wanting to say "oh he just had good players" well remember when he didn't? He basically got the the Red Wings farm team into the playoffs and nearly got them past Tampa. (I think it was Tampa they played that year). I think babcock is one of the best coaches in the game with, of course his set of idiosyncities that come with any coach.

I see the same way as you. I feel the older/more mature/responsible the players get, is the more the obsession of line matching will end. (I don't remember it being this aggressive in Detroit. I also think the ice management is the sports science dept. not Babcock. (and I feel considering that we've only had a handfulof injuries based on actual hockey plays (Matty being smushed, Z's broken foot, etc) and nothing from being worn down, or pulled muscles, leads me to believe it's working.

now if Q ever were to become available, i'll drive Babcock to the airport myself, but i always feel people think there is this magical coach that will do everything amazingly perfect, and it's simply not so. as is the belief that Babcock doesn't learn and grow as a coach.

 

[glue]

Whoa came to read about Gilman..can we please move the Babcock discussion to the Babcock thread. Thanks

 

[LeafChief]

Anyways - there's a ton of whining going on in this thread which has nothing to do with Gilman.

Let's get back on topic.

Who is Laurence Gilman?

 

[JadedLeaf]

Oh stupid me, coming into a Gilman thread and expecting it to be about Gilman....

 

[Growler]

Under Gilman I think we are going to see the Marlies leverage the ECHL farm system far more extensively than has ever been witnessed before. MLSE has the financial resources to make it happen, and now with Newfoundland Growler management's history with MLSE and the AHL, the timing is perfect. Gilman was about to be hired as commissioner of the ECHL to renegotiate the ECHL CBA this Summer. The Growlers are also going to attract a lot of NFLD home talent from other leagues all over the world. I think it is going to be a very successful franchise - a winning culture will permeate throughout the entire farm system...and it will be a real farm system...the Leafs already leveraged the Solar Bears more extensively than 85% of the rest of the other NHL franchises, but this new relationship will be ground breaking.

 

[SprDaVE]

Under Gilman I think we are going to see the Marlies leverage the ECHL farm system far more extensively than has ever been witnessed before. MLSE has the financial resources to make it happen, and now with Newfoundland Growler management's history with MLSE and the AHL, the timing is perfect. Gilman was about to be hired as commissioner of the ECHL to renegotiate the ECHL CBA this Summer. The Growlers are also going to attract a lot of NFLD home talent from other leagues all over the world. I think it is going to be a very successful franchise - a winning culture will permeate throughout the entire Farm System.

Dubas used the ECHL extensively already, whether it was to find talent or to develop talent. I don't think Gilman will bring more there. The only difference is that he will have his ECHL team in Newfoundland as opposed to sunny Orlando.

 

[Skin Tape Session]

Assistant to the general Manager

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Under Gilman I think we are going to see the Marlies leverage the ECHL farm system far more extensively than has ever been witnessed before. MLSE has the financial resources to make it happen, and now with Newfoundland Growler management's history with MLSE and the AHL, the timing is perfect. Gilman was about to be hired as commissioner of the ECHL to renegotiate the ECHL CBA this Summer. The Growlers are also going to attract a lot of NFLD home talent from other leagues all over the world. I think it is going to be a very successful franchise - a winning culture will permeate throughout the entire farm system...and it will be a real farm system...the Leafs already leveraged the Solar Bears more extensively than 85% of the rest of the other NHL franchises, but this new relationship will be ground breaking.

Dubas was previously on the record when first being hired in some capacity that he wanted the leafs to flex their financial muscle to build a top notch farm system that prospects would love to player for. Basically, invest heavily into player development. He’s doing that already and if this is Gilmans philosophy as well there’s no question on why he was chosen to lead the Marlies and player development program.

 

[Growler]

Dubas used the ECHL extensively already, whether it was to find talent or to develop talent. I don't think Gilman will bring more there. The only difference is that he will have his ECHL team in Newfoundland as opposed to sunny Orlando.

I disagree on your usage of the word "extensively." I think the transition has started, and Dubas has used the ECHL to some extent more than previous regimes, but this is nowhere near completed. This past year, the Solar Bears were used for ~12 Marlie contracted players, including a couple drafted players. This was the most compared to other farm systems. So that's good. But despite that, the Solar Bears were pretty mediocre in the standings and got dominated by a Florida Everblades team which is stocked with Carolina system players and really good ECHL free agent signings.

If MLSE intends to use Newfoundland the exact same way as Orlando, then there was no reason to change affiliations. There are business reasons behind this, as any change. The announcement of the new affiliation has not even happened yet. When it happens, I think we will start to hear more about how this new affiliation will bring about new opportunities.

 

[The Best Leafs Ever]

Some, but he's still a fantastic coach.

Literally no one is perfect. Everyone has areas to work on. Babs is elite at what he does though.

He is not elite, he is over rated country bumpkin. He is pathetic and 95% of the blame of that series falls on him. I spared him 5% because he made a good decision on Plekanec whether it was in support of veterans or whatever, it was a good move indeed.

 

[SprDaVE]

I disagree on your usage of the word "extensively." I think the transition has started, and Dubas has used the ECHL to some extent more than previous regimes, but this is nowhere near completed. This past year, the Solar Bears were used for ~12-13 Marlie contracted players, including a couple drafted players. This is among the most compared to other farm systems. So that's good. But despite that, the Solar Bears were pretty mediocre in the standings and got dominated by a Florida Everblades team which is stocked with Carolina system players and really good ECHL free agent signings.

If MLSE intends to use Newfoundland the exact same way as Orlando, then there was no reason to change affiliations. There are business reasons behind this, as any change. The announcement of the new affiliation has not even happened yet. When it happens, I think we will start to hear more about how this new affiliation will bring about new opportunities.

Whatever term you use, I'm not sure how much more Dubas and the Leafs could have used the ECHL. While the Solar Bears might have been mediocre, plenty of the depth players from the Marlies either came from the ECHL or developed there over the years. Whether it was to find players or to develop, Dubas used that league quite a bit and again, expecting for Gilman to be even more active there seems like a big stretch.

It's the ECHL for a reason. I get that you're probably super excited to have a pro team around, especially one tied to the Leafs, but it's not going to be something new.

Organisations change affiliations with teams all the time. St Johns has probably changed affiliations a handful of times in the last couple decades. It happens often. It was reported about a year or two ago that the Leafs wanted to get their own ECHL team, or at least change affiliations. And here we are.

 

[Growler]

Whatever term you use, I'm not sure how much more Dubas and the Leafs could have used the ECHL. While the Solar Bears might have been mediocre, plenty of the depth players from the Marlies either came from the ECHL or developed there over the years. Whether it was to find players or to develop, Dubas used that league quite a bit and again, expecting for Gilman to be even more active there seems like a big stretch.

It's the ECHL for a reason. I get that you're probably super excited to have a pro team around, especially one tied to the Leafs, but it's not going to be something new.

Organisations change affiliations with teams all the time. St Johns has probably changed affiliations a handful of times in the last couple decades. It happens often. It was reported about a year or two ago that the Leafs wanted to get their own ECHL team, or at least change affiliations. And here we are.

If the affiliation is not with the intent of improving the usage of the ECHL farm system (which was a stated intent of this regime), why the change then?

Sure, I am hopeful. But I am also seeing more to this based on connecting dots.

 

[Advanced stats]

He is not elite, he is over rated country bumpkin. He is pathetic and 95% of the blame of that series falls on him. I spared him 5% because he made a good decision on Plekanec whether it was in support of veterans or whatever, it was a good move indeed.

Lolllll I hope this is sarcasm...

 

[Morbo]

You have to understand how little I value the opinion of random people. I value the opinion of people I deem to be experts on a subject, not randoms.

When I formulate an opinion on a subject, I don't seek out to have the most popular opinion on said subject. If my opinion happens to be popular, so be it, but popularity among random people brings me no joy. Like zero. I value my own opinion above all else.

If Kyle Dubas would have been hired by the Avs as their GM, I would venture to say the majority of people on here would sing his praises on the Avs board and say it sucks we lost him. But clearly I don't share the blind love for Kyle that many on here do. So just because a bunch of random Leafs fans spout an opinion that Dubas was instrumental in building what the Leafs are today, doesn't make it fact. And more importantly doesn't mean I share the opinion.

I can see why some people feel the need for validation when moves like this are made. I admit I don't know everything about this guy. I just know the broad strokes. He was part of an organization that is widely seen as underachievers, within that organization it sounds like he had a lot of the same role as Dubas, which I believe has minimal impact on the organization. He later went to work for the league and apparently helped Vegas, although not enough to land a full time gig. The only other organization that apparently had serious interest in him was Carolina, which in my mind is among the worst run organization in the league.

In my mind if he was an A+ candidate (the type we should be after) then you would hear his name mentioned one time and he would get that job that he was tied to, and it would likely be as a GM, not an AGM for a rookie GM.

But as I've said before my criticism of the selection is only based on my desire to see this organization reach for the stars like we did with Hunter, Babs, and Lou. This feels like reaching for the bottom shelf of the cupboard. Not horrible, but not spectacular. Underwhelming if you will. I don't think we should be an organization that makes underwhelming decisions.

Now for the mindblowing part -- you're just another random fan too, whether you see it that way or not.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Now for the mindblowing part -- you're just another random fan too, whether you see it that way or not.

He's not the first who dismiss the response here because he "doesn't care about popularity." It's actually quite simple. If you have a well thought out opinion and can support it with good arguments, people will respond positively. If people respond negatively, you are either doing a bad job of arguing for your case or your case is not a good one to begin with. In either case, some introspection might be in order.

Best part of that post is the idea that an A+ candidate would be someone we've heard was of interest to NHL organizations, and he'd right away have gotten the job as a GM, nothing else. So basically, the only way someone can be an A+ candidate is if they are already unavailable and thus no longer a candidate. Speaking of solid arguments. I mean, it could be interpreted that we should go after guys that have never been mentioned, but I don't know if that's a very strong argument for an A+ candidate either.

 

[Morbo]

Best part of that post is the idea that an A+ candidate would be someone we've heard was of interest to NHL organizations, and he'd right away have gotten the job as a GM, nothing else. So basically, the only way someone can be an A+ candidate is if they are already unavailable and thus no longer a candidate. Speaking of solid arguments.

I asked the question before and haven't received a reply from the Dubas haters...why did the Avs want Dubas to run their team and not the older and presumably more respected Hunter?

 

[Nithoniniel]

I asked the question before and haven't received a reply from the Dubas haters...why did the Avs want Dubas to run their team and not the older and presumably more respected Hunter?

Yeah. Hunter for sure has a lot of respect around the league, so that several organizations still prefer Dubas is quite a solid argument in his favor.

 

[93LEAFS]

I asked the question before and haven't received a reply from the Dubas haters...why did the Avs want Dubas to run their team and not the older and presumably more respected Hunter?

He didn't get absolute control. It wasn't to fully run Hockey Ops. This is why we were able to block the hire.

Also, who NHL owners want, isn't always in touch with the rank and file of the league. He sold himself as an analytics guy, and teams want that, which is why Arizona showed legit interest, then pivoted to Chayka.

 

[Growler]

I am in favor of Dubas simply because to me he has personified the building of an A+ Farm System - something I have wanted desperately since the Quinn days. I loved Quinn, but as the transition moved towards JFJ and the salary cap loomed; I wanted the Leafs to get ready and change philosophies. They never did. When Burke was hired I basically checked out. I did not believe in Shanahan until Lou, not Dubas. Then I knew we were coming back.

But it was Dubas who oversaw the development of the Marlie program which has been impressive. I have no idea whether he will make good trades, but I know that he has the best contract people around him and I believe he will make personnel decision by consensus, and he is surrounded by good people including Babcock.

He strikes me as a guy who is ultra-competitive, but checks his ego at the door. He is surrounded by good people and seems to be a team builder. They have lots of money and have demonstrated the willingness to spend it. Honestly, I don't know what more to ask for.

 

[Morbo]

He didn't get absolute control.

did you have a source on that?

and even if that were true, how does that answer the question I asked?

It wasn't to fully run Hockey Ops. This is why we were able to block the hire.

huh?

Also, who NHL owners want, isn't always in touch with the rank and file of the league. He sold himself as an analytics guy, and teams want that, which is why Arizona showed legit interest, then pivoted to Chayka.

Dubas doesn't sell himself as an "analytics guy", that's what other people label him as.

 

[93LEAFS]

did you have a source on that?

and even if that were true, how does that answer the question I asked?



huh?



Dubas doesn't sell himself as an "analytics guy", that's what other people label him as.

We couldn't block the hire if it was for full control of the Avs Hockey Ops.

He clearly markets himself as someone who understands analytics and uses it to his advantage.

 

[Growler]

We couldn't block the hire if it was for full control of the Avs Hockey Ops.

He clearly markets himself as someone who understands analytics and uses it to his advantage.

What do you mean markets himself? He has been working for the same company for 4 years. Who is he marketing himself to? Because he spoke at 1 conference 4 years ago?