clunk
Registered User
Tanbir is a Vancouver icon.
Tanbir is at 23:40. So good.
@y2kcanucks sighting at 27:23!
We need to get Y2k to the upcoming one to lay into Weisbrod. Would be great to watch!
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Management Discussion v46 | Warning in OP (#834)
- Thread starter carrotshirt
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Tanbir is a Vancouver icon.
Tanbir is at 23:40. So good.
@y2kcanucks sighting at 27:23!
We need to get Y2k to the upcoming one to lay into Weisbrod. Would be great to watch!
I find two completely separate ideas are often being combined by those that support this management team. What did you expect this season to be like isn't the same as discussing the goals and accomplishments of the management team
What I did I think the season was going to be like?
Terrible. I expected at least a bottom 10 finish and likely bottom 5. I was not impressed with the additions to the team in the summer. It was clear the farm was going to be hurting and the big club hurting because of lack of call ups.
The question that needs to be separated from what I think is: What management thought and how have they performed against their goals? This management team has not met their goals for the last 196+ games. The execution on meeting those goals has been, at best, poor.
And it's further than that. I think you can drop the goals that management has and just look at execution. It's been bad no matter which direction you chose to believe the team has headed in.
What I did I think the season was going to be like?
Terrible. I expected at least a bottom 10 finish and likely bottom 5. I was not impressed with the additions to the team in the summer. It was clear the farm was going to be hurting and the big club hurting because of lack of call ups.
The question that needs to be separated from what I think is: What management thought and how have they performed against their goals? This management team has not met their goals for the last 196+ games. The execution on meeting those goals has been, at best, poor.
And it's further than that. I think you can drop the goals that management has and just look at execution. It's been bad no matter which direction you chose to believe the team has headed in.
Melvin
21/12/05
What I expected has turned out to be completely correct. We suck, the veterans we signed are not providing depth but instead blocking youth, and our incredibly poor roster construction has been almost immediately exposed by a handful of injuries.
I guess since this is what I expected, management is doing a good job of meeting expectations.
I guess since this is what I expected, management is doing a good job of meeting expectations.
Bleach Clean
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- Aug 9, 2006
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I would add that it's more than this. Some mid-level and low-level moves also missed the mark.
They should have accumulated picks and have not done the Gudbranson and Forsling age gap deals. Actually, the unecessary age gap philosophy really took this team for a turn.
It was a top down failure of the retool. Everything from targets to supplementary philosophies to the misuse of cap space.
On and on... Benning has a lot on his record that falls short of the mark.
Melvin
21/12/05
Sure. But think about how much different things would be today if we had simply drafted Ehlers and traded kesler for pure futures.
Those two misreads were all it took to sink us. Reverse those and the other minor mistakes almost don't even matter.
me2
Go ahead foot
Benning's solution to the Kobayashi Maru test would be to
A) photon torpedo the Kobayashi Maru thing it was a trap
B) then panic, blame the Klingons, and hit self destruct button on his own ship
Linden would run a compaign against the Klingons to cover up the mess , which would start a war in which ten of millions die.
It could have been avoided with better management.
He did unreasonably lucky in the draft. Every year he's had great posters sunny the day to be taken. The scouts found a PPG player at 23. Lucky.
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Melvin
21/12/05
If you go through threads, there were literally posts of people being worried about Benning taking juolevi before the season even ended, lol.
me2
Go ahead foot
If he can fix his defense he can still be a very good player (2-4), if not he'll be a a Derrek Pouliot type. Tkachuk was the really obvious choice and if you miss the obvious choice you are going to get caned if the choice isn't as good or better.
Joulevi still has plenty of time though, if he not showing well in 2018/19 I'll start worrying but for not just yet.
y2kcanucks
Le Sex God
If he ends up being a second pairing defenseman that's still a massive fail considering who the Canucks passed on.
ATypicalCanadian
Registered User
According to reddit there's a season ticket holder event this Saturday
Benning and Linden continue to avoid the STHs because they are spineless
Just picturing Benning and Linden sitting behind some curtains or in a janitors closet around a microphone telling Weisbrod what to say through a earpiece as he awkwardly clears his throat for twenty seconds waiting for Benning and Linden to guide him through the answer after the obligatory "That's a good question" is out the way.
Megaterio Llamas
el rey del mambo
Megaterio Llamas
el rey del mambo
I'm hearing from my source that Bones Bromley was in the running for GM before he got drunk and knocked a hot fondue pot over onto Aquilini's deck at an alumni get together spilling molten hot cheese sauce everywhere. It was quite an ordeal with Francesco's chihuahua ultimately needing a skin graft on his paw.
Needless to say, Bones is no longer being considered.
Needless to say, Bones is no longer being considered.
Bleach Clean
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Watching some clips of Ken Holland, he seems tailor made for Aquilini, and not in a great
way. He values the "rebuild, or whatever you want to call it" approach. Meaning, he tries to create a competitive roster, but then deals off for picks when he realizes his team is out. It's a weird hybrid of what Benning has done here and what Holland was used to doing when DET was not as good.
Hollands contract work has been his great downfall. Just an ugly amount of static salary.
Anyway, if he's released by DET I have little doubt that Aqua is going to want him here. With or without Benning re-signing here.
I think you are getting a little carried away (as usual). At this point, the decision to pick Juolevi over Tkachuk obviously looks to be a poor one, but if the former develops into a top 3 defensemen, and the latter tops out at a 60 point winger, then the pick won't look so bad, if at all. It may be a big if, and again, the pick definitely looks poor now, but things can change over the next few years. This pick isn't quite in the Virtanen stratosphere....
A consistent 60 pts winger who drives everyone on the other side of the ice nuts is not insignificant - that's a solid top line player. And that kinda player doesn't exactly grow on trees - if they do, I want that damn tree!
As for OJ, he needs to step it up to a similar level for the pick to not look like another blown one. I find it difficult to assess without seeing him playing on NHL ice against some of the toughest customers the other team will bring out. It's not a simple being top 3 D and that's that.
Even if we aren't comparing Tkachuk, look at Sergachev and what he brought to the Lightnings - kid's on pace for something like 55 points.
Either way to look at it, this was a very underwhelming pick. Is OJ gonna rise up to the occasion in the future? Maybe? Is he gonna be better than Tkachuk or Serg? I have no clue, although that seems pretty unlikely.
y2kcanucks
Le Sex God
Actually it is very much in the Virtanen stratosphere. And again, if all Juolevi becomes is a second pairing defenseman then this will certainly be a horrible pick.
I myself am willing to keep some hope alive. Not gonna straight up bust OJ just yet, hell I'm even willing to consider the fact that D-man takes longer to develop (despite Sergachev taking a piss all over this theory). But he has to bring something significant to the NHL table next season. If not, he'll be well on pace to join JV as one of the laughing stock picks of the league.
sandwichbird2023
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- Aug 4, 2004
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Well Holland is a big name in hockey, just like Torts was/is, I can definitely see the owners being interested just for that alone. Plus the pedigree of all those cup wins, I think he's their top candidate, unfortunately.
Looking at the Red Wings roster, cap space and prospect, I realized that if there is one team that is in worse shape than the Canucks both short and long term, it has to be them.
If the option is to keep Benning or give Holland a chance, it will be a tough choice.
One thing I’d love to have some more clarification on is this description of a “second pair” D. What is the baseline for this level of player? I find it a hazy term because lots of players *play* on their team’s presumptive 2nd D pair but more out of function than any true merit or ability. It would be helpful if this was contectualized as player. I mean we all know what Tkachuk *is* but I keep hearing that is less valuable than a guy who might be the 4th best defenseman on our team.
So when we talk about Juolevi being worthwhile if he “only” becomes a second pair D, what *quality* of player are we talking about? Ben Hutton level? Del Zotto? Stecher?
So when we talk about Juolevi being worthwhile if he “only” becomes a second pair D, what *quality* of player are we talking about? Ben Hutton level? Del Zotto? Stecher?
y2kcanucks
Le Sex God
That's fair. Sergachev, Chychrun (despite his injury), and McAvoy have pissed over that theory. Ditto with Provorov and Werenski.
RandV
It's a wolf v2.0
I don't know... Looking at Holland's career it's roughly 15 years of excellency followed by 5 years of average-below average. Post-Lidstrom he's had trouble extracting himself from the remaining vets and the team has been stuck in a 'competitive rebuild' phase that hasn't gone anywhere. Unlike Benning though Holland is actually able to make the playoffs from this position, only missing for the first time last season should miss again this year.
Every team's position is different though. If Holland came to Vancouver he wouldn't have any of the past attachments he has in Detroit, and he'll be taking over a team that's already hit rock bottom and will be starting out from scratch with a few nice pieces in place: Horvat, Boeser, Pettersson, 2018 1st. Just look at Ray Shero or Jim Rutherford, both excelling on a new team after flaming out with their previous ones. If we could bring in Ken Holland I think we could see something similar here.
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