Management Appreciation : Pierre Dorion

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Slack

everything's fine?
Apr 27, 2012
3,692
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Great thread, I hope it gets continuously bumped. I'm praying these days that we retain Dorion in our organization for years and years to come.
 
Apr 4, 2003
3,632
159
Embrun, ON
Agreed - I will always remember Dorion being asked who his favorite pick of the 2011 draft was, and without hesitation he said Jean-Gabriel Pageau. Considering that Zibanejad, Noesen, Puempel and Prince were all picked ahead of Pageau, I thought Dorion was a bit crazy. It just shows how freaking good our scouting staff is and why this team has really turned the corner.

Brings back memories of the Marshall Johnston days - great drafting is the key to having an elite franchise.
 

Sens Rule

Registered User
Sep 22, 2005
21,251
74
Sixteen draft picks from 2006-2011 have played for the Senators this season. I will call it 17 since Foligno directly resulted in Methot through good player management. 10, if you include Lehner, have played in this seasons playoffs this year.

2006

Foligno 1st - Traded for Methot
Gryba 3rd - 20 Min/Night Defensive D
Daugavins 3rd - Role player released
Condra 7th - 3rd line def. forward

2007
O'Brien 1st - 4th line C then Doghouse

2008
Karlsson 1st - Superstar
Wiercioch 2nd - Emerging PMD
Smith 3rd - Checking line centre
Grant 4th - Call up
Borowiecki 5th - Call up

2009
Cowen 1st - The Hulk
Silfverberg 2nd - Top 6 Winger
Lehner 2nd - Back up goalie
Hoffman 5th - Call up

2010
Stone 6th - Call up

2011
Zibanejad 1st - Top 6 Centre
Pageau 4th - 4th line Centre
 

VVS

Registered User
Nov 22, 2007
323
0
Ottawa, ON
Great thread, I hope it gets continuously bumped. I'm praying these days that we retain Dorion in our organization for years and years to come.

What I imagine will happen eventually is that Murray steps down as GM, but retains an advisor job, or whatever his other title is right now.

Tim Murray takes over as GM, and Pierre Dorion as Assistant GM.

And MacLeans coaches this team for another 10 years.
 

BondraTime

Registered User
Nov 20, 2005
28,590
23,241
East Coast
Dorion was probably the best Director of Amateur Scouting in the league, anyone who argues that doesn't have much validity.

Seeing this thread is from 2013 when he was still a scout and director of player personnel, I don't see what the big deal is.

I don't think many planned on him bong the GM less than 4 years later.

Dorion was the best scout we have ever had, and his handpicked succossor is making a run for the money.
 

KnuckChuckinTkachuk

Give'yer balls a tug
Jan 23, 2011
2,099
946
What I imagine will happen eventually is that Murray steps down as GM, but retains an advisor job, or whatever his other title is right now.

Tim Murray takes over as GM, and Pierre Dorion as Assistant GM.

And MacLeans coaches this team for another 10 years.

Oh good lord how times have changed...
 

Langdon Alger

Registered User
Apr 19, 2006
24,777
12,913
Losing Alfie was the start of all this mess.

And the Ryan trade. If they had stuck with their plan of being patient, they’d be fine. Or certainly better off today.

The Ryan trade is a trade you make when you feel you’re one guy away from being a contender. We weren’t.
 

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,832
9,766
Montreal, Canada
Losing Alfie was the start of all this mess.

What mess? Serious question

"Since Alfie left", out of 4 seasons, Sens made the playoffs twice (98 & 99 pts seasons), and missed twice (85 & 88 pts seasons, aka not too far). Also made the ECF 7th game double OT against the "maybe" triple champs as FAR as last season.

Are you suggesting that every team that has done about the same or worse is "a mess"?

Really, I don't get the drama magnitude on this board, it's ridiculous. It's like a continuous Dr Phil show.

All I see is a team operating on a lower budget than most. Is it because the market is fragile or because the owner is lying to cover his personal finances, I have no idea. Melnyk may not be likeable, personally I don't really care about that. Is Dorion the greatest GM? Sure not, I am not a fan so far but at the same time outside of a few moves, it's not as bad as the talk around here. He has to save money in all the trades so of course, he will sacrifice assets or better returns as a result... That's not on the GM, but the financial state of the team (be it Melnyk's fault or just the result of smaller/weaker market)

Or is it because Karlsson rumors? lol do you guys think it's unique to Ottawa? You should have seen the millions of rumors about Price and Pacioretty this year here in Montreal, and not just trade rumors. The drama is 10 times more gigantic.

Let's all take a deep breath, everything is going to be ok.

And the Ryan trade. If they had stuck with their plan of being patient, they’d be fine. Or certainly better off today.

The Ryan trade is a trade you make when you feel you’re one guy away from being a contender. We weren’t.

Do we remember what happened?

In 2010-11, the team was going nowhere and had several aging vets, it was the final nail in the coffin of the "win it for Alfie" era. Team decided to go on a big retool/rebuild, aka a youth movement.

Team got younger in a hurry but they were "victim" of their early success after making the playoffs the first 2 years in 2011-12 & 2012-13, even winning a round against the 2nd seed in the East, a massacre if you remember. Expectations rose after those 2 seasons and they didn't get any high draft picks outside of Zibanejad (6th) in 2011.

The "plan" was working really well and the prospect pool was great but then Alfie left. Yes, he should have been paid what he wanted and that's where Melnyk should have not been cheap but at the same time, the drama around it is purely emotional because he was turning 41 freaking y/o, he didn't have a future with the team as a player. lol comon.

Ryan was 25 y/o when acquired and had 2 more years at 5.1 cap hit. He was younger than Duchene when we acquired him. I don't see why teams who made the playoffs 2 years in a row should not make quantity for quality trades. IMO, you make them every time you have the opportunity.
 
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Tuna99

Registered User
Sep 26, 2009
14,862
6,906
What mess? Serious question

"Since Alfie left", out of 4 seasons, Sens made the playoffs twice (98 & 99 pts seasons), and missed twice (85 & 88 pts seasons, aka not too far). Also made the ECF 7th game double OT against the "maybe" triple champs as FAR as last season.

Are you suggesting that every team that has done about the same or worse is "a mess"?

Really, I don't get the drama magnitude on this board, it's ridiculous. It's like a continuous Dr Phil show.

All I see is a team operating on a lower budget than most. Is it because the market is fragile or because the owner is lying to cover his personal finances, I have no idea. Melnyk may not be likeable, personally I don't really care about that. Is Dorion the greatest GM? Sure not, I am not a fan so far but at the same time outside of a few moves, it's not as bad as the talk around here. He has to save money in all the trades so of course, he will sacrifice assets or better returns as a result... That's not on the GM, but the financial state of the team (be it Melnyk's fault or just the result of smaller/weaker market)

Or is it because Karlsson rumors? lol do you guys think it's unique to Ottawa? You should have seen the millions of rumors about Price and Pacioretty this year here in Montreal, and not just trade rumors. The drama is 10 times more gigantic.

Let's all take a deep breath, everything is going to be ok.



Do we remember what happened?

In 2010-11, the team was going nowhere and had several aging vets, it was the final nail in the coffin of the "win it for Alfie" era. Team decided to go on a big retool/rebuild, aka a youth movement.

Team got younger in a hurry but they were "victim" of their early success after making the playoffs the first 2 years in 2011-12 & 2012-13, even winning a round against the 2nd seed in the East, a massacre if you remember. Expectations rose after those 2 seasons and they didn't get any high draft picks outside of Zibanejad (6th) in 2011.

The "plan" was working really well and the prospect pool was great but then Alfie left. Yes, he should have been paid what he wanted and that's where Melnyk should have not been cheap but at the same time, the drama around it is purely emotional because he was turning 41 freaking y/o, he didn't have a future with the team as a player. lol comon.

Ryan was 25 y/o when acquired and had 2 more years at 5.1 cap hit. He was younger than Duchene when we acquired him. I don't see why teams who made the playoffs 2 years in a row should not make quantity for quality trades. IMO, you make them every time you have the opportunity.

You're right, the team is in great shape. Financially, brand wise, the superstar couldn't be happier, the legacy players are doing great things for the organization, the fans can't get enough of these tickets, the front office staff has the same number of people running a $750 million business as a gas station in Smith Falls.

And of course the on ice product is fascinating. The team has clear direction. Guy Boucher hockey is a treat for the eyes.

Our highest paid player has been lighting up the league in back to back seasons. Our 1st round pick in the 2019 rebuild will be a huge building block. The rivalries with Montreal and Toronto are thriving.

We have Gaborik, Burrows and Ryan next year to lead the vets, not to mention the money retained for Phaneuf. Caps in great shape. We have free-agents flying in



from last years pla
 

swiftwin

★SUMMER.OF.PIERRE★
Jul 26, 2005
23,580
12,964
I was gonna come here to make this thread. I was surprised to see this here. Then I saw it was a necro bump.

Dorion got the best return of any seller at the deadline with Brass. He held firm and didn't bend over to Yzerman's lowballs, even rejected a 3 first rounder offer (from Vegas?). Now reports are coming out that he was playing hardball with the Flyers over Hoffman: Report: Flyers balked at price for Senators F Hoffman - Article - TSN

He got the most of what was clearly a buyer's market.

Not to mention that managed to pull off two complex 3way trades in one season in an era where they never happen.

The only truly bad deal he's done so far is the Anderson extension. The rest range from average to excellent, or are insignificant.

Dorion gets a B+ from me this season.
 

inthewings

Registered User
Jul 26, 2005
5,187
4,398
I was gonna come here to make this thread. I was surprised to see this here. Then I saw it was a necro bump.

Dorion got the best return of any seller at the deadline with Brass. He held firm and didn't bend over to Yzerman's lowballs, even rejected a 3 first rounder offer (from Vegas?). Now reports are coming out that he was playing hardball with the Flyers over Hoffman: Report: Flyers balked at price for Senators F Hoffman - Article - TSN

He got the most of what was clearly a buyer's market.

Not to mention that managed to pull off two complex 3way trades in one season in an era where they never happen.

The only truly bad deal he's done so far is the Anderson extension. The rest range from average to excellent, or are insignificant.

Dorion gets a B+ from me this season.

Maybe nit-picky, but the Rangers got a pretty serious haul for a couple months of Nash.
 

swiftwin

★SUMMER.OF.PIERRE★
Jul 26, 2005
23,580
12,964
Maybe nit-picky, but the Rangers got a pretty serious haul for a couple months of Nash.

They also took on a fair bit of salary, and had to retain on Nash. We took no salary back and didn't have to retain a cent. We also arguably got a better return.
 

inthewings

Registered User
Jul 26, 2005
5,187
4,398
They also took on a fair bit of salary, and had to retain on Nash. We took no salary back and didn't have to retain a cent. We also arguably got a better return.

I definitely prefer Spooner to Gustavsson.

I guess I don't see why we need to frame it as 'Dorion got the best return of every seller'. He was expected to. He sold the most valuable asset that was sold at the deadline. He did fine - he sold Brassard for fair value.
 
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Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
51,166
9,908
Regardless of how you feel about Spooner vs Gustafsson in terms of head-to-head I don't think you can argue that we needed a high ceiling goalie prospect (everybody seems quite high on him) over a tweener like Spooner.

To be clear I'm still bummed we got a goalie prospect for Brassard but hey, what can you do? This season is a sign that Anderson/Condon might not be good enough to be a competitive team.
 

h2owned

Registered User
Nov 17, 2009
1,027
205
Ottawa, Ontario
Summary of Ottawa's trades this year:
Turris + Brassard + Phaneuf +Thompson + '19 1st + Bowers + '19 3rd + '18 3rd + Dido + Hammond for Duchene + Gaborik + '18 Pit 1st + Gustavsson + Pit '19 3rd + CLB '20 3rd + Moutrey + Pokka + CGY '19 7th + 25% of Phaneufs contract.

Essentially boils down to Turris+Brassard+Phaneuf+'19 1st + Bowers for Duchene+Gaborik+Pit '18 1st +Gustavsson.

Take out the Phaneuf trade and Turris+Brassard+'19 1st+Bowers for Duchene+ Pit '18 1st + Gustavsson

Again essentially Turris+Brass+ for Duchene as depending where they finish next year, Ott '19 1st + Bowers > then Pit '18 1st + Gustavsson, could be >> if its a lottery pick.
As good as Duchene is that looks ugly.
 
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