Malkin (Over)Hype?

ShadowFax

Registered User
Mar 10, 2004
938
0
EroCaps said:
Malkin may be better defensively, but his finishing ability is clearly a rung below Ovechkin's. Crosby, despite 39, is in a similar boat but makes up for it w/freakishly good instincts.

Ovechkin one-dimensional is as ludicrous as saying Crosby can't score goals, IMO.

The expectations next year for Malkin are somewhat overhyped IMO, but he's a stud. He'll be challenging for the Hart/Ross/Pearson during his prime w/AO and Crosby.

You couldn't dream of a better 1-2 punch down the middle.

Agree with everything.
 

The_Eck

Registered User
Jan 5, 2006
3,034
0
Montreal
EroCaps said:
Malkin may be better defensively, but his finishing ability is clearly a rung below Ovechkin's. Crosby, despite 39, is in a similar boat but makes up for it w/freakishly good instincts.

Ovechkin one-dimensional is as ludicrous as saying Crosby can't score goals, IMO.

The expectations next year for Malkin are somewhat overhyped IMO, but he's a stud. He'll be challenging for the Hart/Ross/Pearson during his prime w/AO and Crosby.

You couldn't dream of a better 1-2 punch down the middle.

Wow! A very objective opinion even coming from you erocaps.
:handclap:
 

Buffalo87

thehosers dot com
Mar 22, 2006
7,255
1
Rochester
Til the End of Time said:
But what I do take issue with is Joe Blow from Nowhere, USA, who has only seen Malkin play in a few games or video clips claiming "Malkin is soo much better than Crosby/Ovechkin, just wait 'til he makes it to the NHL."


Hmmm...so people from Canada are automatically more qualified to make these statements just because they're from Canada? :sarcasm:
 

alecfromtherock

Registered User
Feb 2, 2004
507
0
<Mr Jiggyfly> said:
You do realize he will be on the same PP as Crosby right? You think those two might just rack up a few points on the PP. together?

Malkin will also not have to face the other teams top checking line, unless he is skating a shift on Crosby's line.

I've seen him play enough times and with the way he passes I believe 90-100 pts is attainable.

True they might both be on the PP, but looking at the T30 point getters this season Crosby had the highest PIM at 110.

Malkin might be on the PK as a direct result of Crosby playing his style of game, once Crosby is in the box the Pens offence takes a massive drop.

It makes sense for Malkin to be on the PP with Crosby, but constant PK duties could wear him down and make him less effective on the PP.

Malkin will see ES time with Crosby, but not on a regular bases.

81-52-54-106 21PP and 81-39-63-102 19PP is a high standard to hold Malkin to.


Using international/RSL games to equate Malkin >>> SC/AO completely takes away what both those players accomplished this season and is foolhardy to say the least.

Malkin has not shown the willingness of AO to learn the English language and might be in for a culture shock. Granted he has a few months to become ‘North American-zed’ if he actually comes over this year.

He is used to playing on a winning and competitive team and while the Pens get an E for Effort they get a F for Failure.

Unless the Pens get some decent wingers Malkin could be in for a rough first year and as long as the Pens D remains the same 150 points might not be enough.

58 points in the standings was 34 out of a playoff berth this season.

It will be quite sad if Crosby and Malkin are both high in the scoring yet the playoffs are unattainable.


2010+ is my predication when the Pens could compete for the Stanley Cup, individual awards are the only thing SC/EM can obtain in the next few seasons.
 

stardog

Been on HF so long my Myspace link is part of my p
Oct 31, 2003
5,318
309
www.myspace.com
alecfromtherock said:
True they might both be on the PP, but looking at the T30 point getters this season Crosby had the highest PIM at 110.

Malkin might be on the PK as a direct result of Crosby playing his style of game, once Crosby is in the box the Pens offence takes a massive drop.It makes sense for Malkin to be on the PP with Crosby, but constant PK duties could wear him down and make him less effective on the PP.

Malkin will see ES time with Crosby, but not on a regular bases.

81-52-54-106 21PP and 81-39-63-102 19PP is a high standard to hold Malkin to.


Using international/RSL games to equate Malkin >>> SC/AO completely takes away what both those players accomplished this season and is foolhardy to say the least.

Malkin has not shown the willingness of AO to learn the English language and might be in for a culture shock. Granted he has a few months to become ‘North American-zed’ if he actually comes over this year.

He is used to playing on a winning and competitive team and while the Pens get an E for Effort they get a F for Failure.

Unless the Pens get some decent wingers Malkin could be in for a rough first year and as long as the Pens D remains the same 150 points might not be enough.

58 points in the standings was 34 out of a playoff berth this season.

It will be quite sad if Crosby and Malkin are both high in the scoring yet the playoffs are unattainable.


2010+ is my predication when the Pens could compete for the Stanley Cup, individual awards are the only thing SC/EM can obtain in the next few seasons.
Once anybody is in the box, any teams offense takes a massive drop
 

Til the End of Time

Registered User
May 18, 2003
7,853
1
Santa Monica, CA
Visit site
Another thing I forgot to mention... Crosby and Ovechkin are not such special players simply because of their skillset. Is Crosby that much more talented than, say, Thornton? Is Ovechkin that much more talented than Kovalchuk? Well, maybe.

But the reason I think these two guys are special is because they have the drive and determination to be the best, along with the talent. They never give up on plays, and give 110% every shift.

Does Malkin possess the same fiery passion that Ovechkin and Crosby do? I don't know if he does, so I hesitate to put him above either of of those two players.
 

#66

Registered User
Dec 30, 2003
11,585
7
Visit site
Til the End of Time said:
Another thing I forgot to mention... Crosby and Ovechkin are not such special players simply because of their skillset. Is Crosby that much more talented than, say, Thornton? Is Ovechkin that much more talented than Kovalchuk? Well, maybe.

But the reason I think these two guys are special is because they have the drive and determination to be the best, along with the talent. They never give up on plays, and give 110% every shift.

Does Malkin possess the same fiery passion that Ovechkin and Crosby do? I don't know if he does, so I hesitate to put him above either of of those two players.
I've watched him most of this year and I would say that he does have that chip on his shoulder. It might not stand out like Crosby and AO because Malkin plays a different game. He kind of waits in good defensive position and follows plays up rather than spearheads the attack like the other two.

IMO its because he plays a less active game that he'll need more of a period of adjustment to the NHL. I don't think that he'll play poorly at first, he's to good and smart for that, but I don't think he'll reach a star level until later in his first season.
 

The_Eck

Registered User
Jan 5, 2006
3,034
0
Montreal
Til the End of Time said:
Another thing I forgot to mention... Crosby and Ovechkin are not such special players simply because of their skillset. Is Crosby that much more talented than, say, Thornton? Is Ovechkin that much more talented than Kovalchuk? Well, maybe.

But the reason I think these two guys are special is because they have the drive and determination to be the best, along with the talent. They never give up on plays, and give 110% every shift.

Does Malkin possess the same fiery passion that Ovechkin and Crosby do? I don't know if he does, so I hesitate to put him above either of of those two players.
Judging from what i've seen so far in the olympics and world championships, I would say yes he does. IMO he outshined AO in both tournaments.
 

pei fan

Registered User
Jan 3, 2004
2,536
0
Til the End of Time said:
Is Crosby that much more talented than, say, Thornton?
At the same age ,a big YES....but I generally agree with your other points.And yes Ovechkin and Kovalchuk at the same age have similar levels of talent but what seperates them is drive,dedication,attitude etc.
 

pei fan

Registered User
Jan 3, 2004
2,536
0
Malkin overhyped? Hard to believe that there could be three such great players arrive in the league at the same time but apparently it's true but one of those players decidely has more potential than the others,so in that respect it's overhype.Malkin will not be as good as Crosby, which many people here claim.
 

Jaded-Fan

Registered User
Mar 18, 2004
52,510
14,390
Pittsburgh
alecfromtherock said:
True they might both be on the PP, but looking at the T30 point getters this season Crosby had the highest PIM at 110.

Malkin might be on the PK as a direct result of Crosby playing his style of game, once Crosby is in the box the Pens offence takes a massive drop.

It makes sense for Malkin to be on the PP with Crosby, but constant PK duties could wear him down and make him less effective on the PP.

Malkin will see ES time with Crosby, but not on a regular bases.

81-52-54-106 21PP and 81-39-63-102 19PP is a high standard to hold Malkin to.


Using international/RSL games to equate Malkin >>> SC/AO completely takes away what both those players accomplished this season and is foolhardy to say the least.

Malkin has not shown the willingness of AO to learn the English language and might be in for a culture shock. Granted he has a few months to become ‘North American-zed’ if he actually comes over this year.

He is used to playing on a winning and competitive team and while the Pens get an E for Effort they get a F for Failure.

Unless the Pens get some decent wingers Malkin could be in for a rough first year and as long as the Pens D remains the same 150 points might not be enough.

58 points in the standings was 34 out of a playoff berth this season.

It will be quite sad if Crosby and Malkin are both high in the scoring yet the playoffs are unattainable.


2010+ is my predication when the Pens could compete for the Stanley Cup, individual awards are the only thing SC/EM can obtain in the next few seasons.

Mario suffered through some pretty dismal years before the first cup in 1991. While putting up some amazing numbers. But that is pretty much where the analogy ends. The Pens have been stockpiling talent, both quantity and quality, for years now and the misconception is that Crosby is why the Pens will be good. He was just icing on a cake that had been baking for years now. I totally agree that it is not happening next year. Hell, we may even be adding Espisito to play wing opposite of Kessel with Crosby in the middle. I doubt even at our best that we fall out of the top ten as far as draft picks next year. But look out the year after and beyond. All that youth is coming closer to contributing. Something like 13 or 14 rookies played for the Pens this year and many of them were not just career AHL players but our future. Mario may have struggled for 7 years before tasting glory, many of those years the team sucking big time but this is not the same team that he was saddled with from 1984-90. Even without Crosby this team would have had a very bright future and sooner than 2010.
 

Biscuit Bullet

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
6,423
2
Washington DC
Visit site
Simply put, Malkin is a poor man's Lemieux. He shares all Mario's talents, but to a lesser extent. He will not be the magnificent player Mario was, but I see similarities in all areas of their game, mostly their smooth skating and buttery, effortless stickhandling.

Malkin scored at a PPG pace in the RSL, something VERY few Russian players have done. Ovechkin didn't and not even Bure ever did.

Malkin will be very, very good. Surely a top 5 center in the NHL very shortly. He just needs to go through the motions and back it up in the NHL, which I'm 99% positive he will do.
 

JoeIsAStud

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
11,646
5,466
Visit site
Bonzai said:
Simply put, Malkin is a poor man's Lemieux. He shares all Mario's talents, but to a lesser extent. He will not be the magnificent player Mario was, but I see similarities in all areas of their game, mostly their smooth skating and buttery, effortless stickhandling.

Malkin scored at a PPG pace in the RSL, something VERY few Russian players have done. Ovechkin didn't and not even Bure ever did.

Malkin will be very, very good. Surely a top 5 center in the NHL very shortly. He just needs to go through the motions and back it up in the NHL, which I'm 99% positive he will do.

Nothing against Malkin, but look at some of the other guys on that list of Point per game players in the RSL. Alexi Morozov, who about 5-6 years ago was Malkin. Universally considered the best player in the world not in the NHL. Came over to the NHL, and while he showed he could play some offense, just wasn't that great, and ended up back in Russia.

Also in the ppg club is Sergei Zinojev. He of the 1 point in 9 NHL games.

Yes Zimo, and Morozov are 5 years older than Malkin, and Malkin putting up those numbers at such a young age is very impressive.

I believe that Malkin will be a much better player than Morozov, but there is certainly risk. I think people who basically believe Malkin will come in and be a 120-140 point player in the NHL may be setting themselves up for a big dissapointment.
 

KIRK

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
109,700
51,216
<Mr Jiggyfly> said:
The hype was always justified.

As my cousin is from Russia, I have had the chance to watch Malkin play in close to 50+ games.

I was one of the select few people trying to talk Pens fans out of suicide back when they lost the lottery in '04, because I knew how good Malkin was.

If you think he is overhyped that is your opinion.

However, your statements swing both ways. So if you haven't watched Malkin play at all or in enough games, then I don't believe you are educated enough about Malkin to decide if he is overhyped or not.

As for those saying he will be better than Crosby and AO, that I would agree is ridiculous.

I haven't seen Malkin play enough to know for sure and, in a sense, we won't know for sure until he plays in the NHL, but I have been one of those who has bought into the hype:

At the 2003 draft, Ovechkin pretty much was the consensus #1. At best, he was going to be a Kovalchuk type of explosive offensive player who also played a physical game and might play better defense. At worst, he was going to be a physical Kovalchuk.

Malkin was seen as a wild card. He was seen as incredibly skilled, but he was 6'3, 185 lbs, had suffered an ugly concussion earlier in the season, and was seen as anything but a sure thing. Potentially, however, he was seen as growing into a 6'4, 220 lb franchise center who would play like a combination of the two NHL players he said he admired, Mario Lemieux and Owen Nolan, with the added plus of being a selke caliber defensive forward.

While anyone with the #1 overall would have taken Ovechkin, a couple of teams looked at the franchise center who might be and rated him higher than Ovechkin. My brother, who lives in Nashville, said Ray Shero said in a generic draft interview that he preferred Malkin.

What has Malkin done since then? He is almost a year younger than Ovechkin. He dominated the RSL a year after Ovechkin. He dominated the world juniors only to be shut down by Canada just like Ovechkin a year later. He was Russia's best forward at the Olympics.

During his press conference, Ray Shero talked about the Penguins general talent level. He specifically mentioned only Crosby and Malkin, but not Fleury, as people to build the franchise around. During a later interview, when asked a "#87 had to have something to do with your coming" question, he again talked about the general young talent, again specifically mentioned only Crosby and Malkin, and then offered the unsolicited comment that, if the Penguins can figure out how to get Malkin over, he's going to make Shero and Therrien look a lot smarter.

Each time Shero mentioned Malkin, a half smile seemed to come to his face, as if he knew something for a fact that we sit here debating in theory.

Will Malkin score 100 pts? I don't know. He's going to be on the first PK unit. He's going to take a lot of defensive zone draws. He'll probably play more minutes than Crosby for these reasons, but he may have fewer offensive opportunities. That said, he is a more complete player than Crosby or Ovechkin and should, as Shero's example demonstrates, be mentioned in the same breath.
 

Don'tcry4mejanhrdina

Registered User
Aug 4, 2003
11,341
2,123
This space.
john030971 said:
Potentially, however, he was seen as growing into a 6'4, 220 lb franchise center who would play like a combination of the two NHL players he said he admired, Mario Lemieux and Owen Nolan, with the added plus of being a selke caliber defensive forward.
Actually, it was Ovechkin who liked Lemieux and Nolan. I'm pretty sure Malkin said he liked Fedorov which would make a lot of sense in terms of style of play.
 

Vincent_TheGreat

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
6,128
1
Ontario
Visit site
Jimmypop316 said:
Malkin not getting over 100 points will be a jaw dropper. Especially if he is playing with Crosby

I highly doubt the play on the same line. Crosby is a natural Centre, and I'm pretty sure Malkin is a much better Centre then Winger.

Now if they draft Kessel they can have a winger for which ever guy he has better chemistry with.
 

Slitty

Registered User
Oct 23, 2005
3,875
8
alecfromtherock said:
True they might both be on the PP, but looking at the T30 point getters this season Crosby had the highest PIM at 110.

Malkin might be on the PK as a direct result of Crosby playing his style of game, once Crosby is in the box the Pens offence takes a massive drop.

It makes sense for Malkin to be on the PP with Crosby, but constant PK duties could wear him down and make him less effective on the PP.

.

Not to worry, Malkin will lead by example and hammer those unnecessary unsportsmanlike conduct penalties out of Crosby's system. :innocent:
 

Slitty

Registered User
Oct 23, 2005
3,875
8
JoeIsAStud said:
Nothing against Malkin, but look at some of the other guys on that list of Point per game players in the RSL. Alexi Morozov, who about 5-6 years ago was Malkin. Universally considered the best player in the world not in the NHL. Came over to the NHL, and while he showed he could play some offense, just wasn't that great, and ended up back in Russia.

One thing to compare point totals and another thing to watch the players play. Yet since you seem so wise with oracle-like properties... please do compare Morozov's domination as compared to Malkin's for the benefit of us unenlightened. ;)
 
Last edited:

Slitty

Registered User
Oct 23, 2005
3,875
8
alecfromtherock said:
Using international/RSL games to equate Malkin >>> SC/AO completely takes away what both those players accomplished this season and is foolhardy to say the least.


I think to disregard these compairsons is foolhardy. A player is still the same quality player no matter where he plays, if Malkin came over to the NHL this season just like A.O - he would still be more or less the same player.

In the case of the Olympics and the past two Worlds, we actually got an opportunity to see Ovechkin and Malkin play together side by side. I don't know of a better situation to compare two players than when they are on the same line. In terms of level of competition, the RSL and most Worlds games do not equate to the NHL. However, the latter stages of the Worlds and the Olympics are on a higher level than the NHL... and Malkin was somewhat dominant at that level and outshone Ovechkin. Again, if that doesn't prove player quality, neither does the subpar (in comparisson) NHL.

Those with a very "closed" outlook, who chose to concentrate on only the NHL disregard anything beyond their immediate surroundings with which they are comfortable are the foolhardy... to say the least.
 

BMann

Registered User
May 18, 2006
1,946
502
Watford
Malkin is a born leader.He deserves to be there on merit not on the ruminations of any journalists.Sure he'll take some time to get used to the smaller ice & the culture shock but give him late in the season & he'll have settled in then we will see.

As a Pen I cant wait to see all the talent assembled & with more to be cherry picked in the upcoming draft Toews/Kessel a SC sometime around 2009-2010. :)
 

WhiskeyYerTheDevils

yer leadin me astray
Sponsor
Apr 27, 2005
33,655
29,872
malkin will be a great, great player. He reminds me of a mario lemieux that can play defense. I see him wedged between crosby and ovechkin. If i had to rank the three for the next 10 years id say:
Crosby
Malkin
Ovechkin
 

EroCaps

Registered User
Aug 24, 2003
18,068
1,729
Virginia
Malkin is Spezza with a great defensive game and w/out the shooting arsenal.

A future top 5-10 player in the NHL, but he has a lot to prove before being compared to Ovechkin or Crosby.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad