Malkin or Phaneuf?

[Jester]

I've actually seen him play quite a few times. He's nowhere near Pikanen, or McCabe.

not a fair comparison at this point.

 

[Danny__K]

I've actually seen him play quite a few times. He's nowhere near Pikanen, or McCabe.

he also has a grand total of 29 games under his belt and plays on a offensively inept team in the more defensive of the 2 conferences. as the other guy said if you don't think he's going to be a offensive force in a few years you haven't seen him play enough.

 

[Pens1566]

not a fair comparison at this point.

Just responding to someone that thought he'd be scoring 25 goals. Which would probably make him the highest scoring defenseman in the league. Those 2 will be up there.

 

[Pens1566]

he also has a grand total of 29 games under his belt and plays on a offensively inept team in the more defensive of the 2 conferences. as the other guy said if you don't think he's going to be a offensive force in a few years you haven't seen him play enough.

There was no mention of "a few years". He said something like "once he learns to get that cannon shot on net". Is it going to take years for him to learn to get his shot on net?

BTW, he is better than Whitney.

 

[Dogbert*]

It depends on team needs. If you need the offensive help, you go with Malkin; if you're not good defensively, you go with Phaneuf.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Malkin, Ovechkin and Crosby aren't franchise forwards that come around as "frequently" as you suggest. They are (supposed to be) generational talents that will be among the best players at their position, EVER. Obviously we will see what actually happens when Malkin gets here, but we are still talking about Malkin's potential vs. Phaneuf's potential.

Yeah, but the "draft experts" talk about players like that every year. This year, it's Phil Kessel and how he's supposed to be one of those generational players. Before Kessel it was Crosby. Before Crosby it was Ovechkin. Before Ovechkin it was Nathan Horton. Before Horton it was....well, you get the picture.

Fact of the matter is that these "generational" players are being turned out every entry draft. But it's not the same with defensemen. You always hear when defensemen are being drafted that they are always "potential number 1 guys, but solid number 2, 3, or 4". That's what makes guys like Phaneuf and Seabrook so impressive. They're true number one guys in the leage at only 20 years of age.

They'll never live up to the legends that guys like Orr, Coffey, or Bourque have. Those guys aren't number 1 guys, they're guys that are gods and have innovated the defense position. However, guys like Seabrook and Phaneuf will have more of an impact.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

It depends on team needs. If you need the offensive help, you go with Malkin; if you're not good defensively, you go with Phaneuf.

It also depends on the type of team that you are building. Face it, a Phaneuf could help any team, but would work best on a team who is built like a Calgary. The Pens are trying to rebuild the Pens of the 90's, a run and gun team which thinks offense first and defense second. A team that has quality parts already in the system. And a team a good couple of years away from being what they envision. Malkin fits that team much more than Phaneuf would, though a Calgary could certainly use a Malkin, and a Pittsburgh could certainly use a Phaneuf. But those players will preform best just where they were drafted. Pittsburgh can get by with adequate and slightly above defensive defenseman if they get that shut down goaltender, like they had in Barrasso in the 90's, and that they seem to have in MAF. But trading a Malkin for Phaneuf would remove a major cog in what they are trying to build. Like trading Forsberg for Neidermeyer and saying 'but it is ok, we have Sakic'. And yes Malkin could be a Forsberg, he has that kind of upside. You just do not do that even though Neidermeyer would have looked very good in a Colorado uniform during the past decade and a half.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Horton was never a generational talent.

Spezza, Kovalchuk, Ovechkin, Crosby. Those were the "generational" talents of recent.

Malkin, when drafted, was starting to catch up to Ovechkin, but was thought of very few as a generational talent. There was little to no hype before him being drafted. Malkin played himself into that title after being drafted.

The title of generational talent is being thrown around too much, but I don't think any of the guys I listed have let down. As much as I like Kovalchuk & Spezza I don't think they're going to match the dominance level of Ovechkin or Crosby, but their title was jest when it was given to them considering they probably were the best prospects since Daigle.

 

[Kritty]

I'd love to see how well Phaneuf would do in Pittsburgh. Whitney has been their best defensemen. Plus it depends what you want. Whitney will give you offense, Phaneuf will give you more physical play. Clearly Phaneuf is the best rookie defensemen in the NHL, but to suggest Phaneuf is 10X (or so) better than Whitney is crazy talk.

Whitney isn't even near the same league as Phaneuf, and to even consider trying to put him there is just wrong. Phaneuf may not be 10 times better than Whitney but he is definitely several notches above. Phaneuf would be just fine in Pittsburgh. No probably not as well as he's been in Calgary but I have no doubts he'd still be dominant. Pittsburgh is not a bad team, they have a poor coach, end of story.

 

[FLYLine27*]

I've actually seen him play quite a few times. He's nowhere near Pikanen, or McCabe.

Ok, well we are all entitled to our opinions, but I can't see many people agreeing with you.

 

[FLYLine27*]

There was no mention of "a few years". He said something like "once he learns to get that cannon shot on net". Is it going to take years for him to learn to get his shot on net?

BTW, he is better than Whitney.

If you had read my previous post in the thread:

IMO Phaneuf will be a top 2-3 defensman in the entire league in a few years,

Obviously ive been talking about in the far future and not just in a few months. And it could take a year or 2 for him to get his shot on better, he will get smarter and know when to use his shot, how to get open better, more confidence etc...im not just talking about his aiming.

 

[KOMO_ROCKS]

I take Phaneuf over Malkin......both are great young players but Phaneuf seems like the more special player to me and being so good on d at his age is amazing.

 

[Zine]

I think Malkin has the potential to be better at his position than Phaneuf - but, as of now, Phaneuf is the sure thing.

It really depends on the need of each team I guess.

 

[Flames Will]

This is indeed a very interesting subject - some have tried comparing this to a choice between Gretzky and Lemiuex versus the likes of Bourque, MacInnis and Coffey type defensemen - I would have to say I disagree.

I might get some back lash for this but I will state it anyways. This is more like the comparisom of who you would rather have Bobby Orr or Wayne Gretzky...

I think Phaneuf may be the best defenseman since Bobby Orr to enter the league. He came to a team that was so deep at Defense that people (myself included) thought he would take 2 years to adjust or at least till the end of the season. Here is a guy that has taken the league by storm (something that is VERY rare for Rookie Defensemen to do) and has been mentioned in the same breathe as Ovechkin and Crosby (at least in the newspapers in the western States he has recieved nearly the same publicity).

So who would I rather have? at this point I would lean for Phaneuf, because with every passing month he raises the bar of what his potential is. I have not witnessed that same raising of the bar from other eliete prospects in a long time. Yes I am somewhat biased, being a Flames fan, but I do think Phaneuf will reach levels of skill (combining offensive and defensive) not seen since Bobby Orr (I am not saying he is going to match Orr's offensive output).

 

[hockeyfan125]

I realize I didn't get to see him play live, but from old film I have seen, Malkin eerily reminds me of Jean Beliveau.

 

[Corto]

I see Malkin pretty regularly in the RSL.

I do not want to trade him. For anyone, outside maybe Ovechkin.

Phaneuf is way out of Whitney's league, but Whitney could be a more than adequate #1 if Malkin and Sidney get some good talent around them.

And personally, I still think there's a fair chance Malkin will be a more valuable player than Sidney or Ovechkin.

 

[Kaizer]

Malkin eerily reminds me of Jean Beliveau.

Dustin Rose is officially done

 

[Zine]

I think Phaneuf may be the best defenseman since Bobby Orr to enter the league.

 

[Flames Will]

Let me clarify - when I say he may be the best defenseman since Bobby Orr - I am not saying yet - but at this age, and with the way he is rapidally improving his game, he has the potential to become that player - hence my use of the word "MAY". I can not remember the last defenseman to dominate so quickly in his rookie year - Leetch, Bourque, Suter, and a few others all had great rookie campaigns but they were mainly lacking in one department or another and not well rounded - mainly they were offensively skilled guys. Not since Bobby Orr has a rookie defenseman dominated so quickly physically, offensively and defensively (though Orr was much better offensively and not as good physically).
Just wanted to clarify that so it does not get blown out of focus like some HF readers like to do

 

[CertifiedPublicGuin]

Uh, no. It was clutching and grabbing. That's not necessarily synonymous with the concept of good defense, which is still required to win in today's NHL.

The defensive strategics/style slowed the game down to a halt... cluth-and-grab did not single handedly cause the goals per gam average to plummet from the 80's to where it's been in recent years. More offensive style/talented players = more production (1981: 8.03 gpg, 2003-04: 5.14 gpg)

 

[Evilo]

Pitkanen pretty much dominated from the start. Same goes with Jovanovski, who was excellent in his first year.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

The title of generational talent is being thrown around too much, but I don't think any of the guys I listed have let down. As much as I like Kovalchuk & Spezza I don't think they're going to match the dominance level of Ovechkin or Crosby, but their title was jest when it was given to them considering they probably were the best prospects since Daigle.

See, I think Kovalchuk and Spezza will have the better careers. Kovalchuk really tore it up his rookie year and he's been dominant ever since. This was a guy, the draft experts said, had a bad attitude and didn't work hard. Well, this guy has become a leader in the Atlanta dressing room, works very hard every night, and has added a physical dimension to his play. He can hit like a freight train. And when you consider he missed how many game to start the season and he's only like two or three goals off the goal scoring race, that's very impressive.

As for Spezza, he was stuck playing for Jacques Martin. If you don't know about Jacques, unless you're European or French, you don't play on the top two lines in Ottawa. Jacques had Jason play on the third and fourth lines and Jason still put up good numbers. Isn't funny when Jacques gets canned, Jason moves up to the top line and becomes a top notch guy. It's like what Bobby Orr and Don Cherry said about Spezza. Ottawa was going to ruin this guy because he is the real deal. He's also developed some real nice chemistry with Dany Heatley and that's going to go far as well.

As for Ovechkin, he's going to have to carry that Washington team for another 3 to 4 years before they're up to par with everyone else. I can't figure out how they have all that young talent, but it never pans out in Washington. I'm wondering whether or not GM GM has any kind of development plan in place for the youngsters. It certainly doesn't seem like it. You'd figure that Klepis, Fehr, Fleischman, Green, Aulin, Gordon, Bourque, etc....would all be in Washington right now. Yet, they're all stuck in Hershey. When you also consider that Hershey is the third highest scoring team in the AHL, you'd have to figure that these young guns could come up to Washington and help out Ovechkin. I guess GM is hoping to tank the season again and get another high draft pick. Shame on GM for screwing the fans and the team in Washington out of doing well and possibly making the playoffs.

As for Sidney Crosby, as talented as he may be, he's going to down in the NHL as a whiner. He's someone who has been so used to getting his way right from junior hockey and on, he'll always complain and ***** and piss and moan when things don't go his way. He needs to mature, but I don't see it happening as long as Lemieux is playing. Lemieux is kind of a detriment because Sidney is picking up on the Mario crying and he's doing the exact thing. I think Sidney and Mario shouldn't be on the same line and Sidney should be taking his cues from Mark Recchi on knowing when to yap and knowing when to shut your yap.

However, this all comes down to opinion. I'd take Spezza over Crosby any day. I'd take Kovalchuk over Ovechkin any day. You can make cases for all four players, but it's all in the eye of the beholder.

 

[WADEugottaBELAKthat]

I know that. I've become the HF agitator apparently.

You had no clue; let's be honest here

 

[WADEugottaBELAKthat]

Dustin Rose is officially done

Not funny anymore.

 

[octopi]

Dustin Rose is officially done

I've got to know, was he a football prospect that died in an accident?