Malkin '100%' coming over next year. RSL club threatens legal action

[timmy12]

Yes

What about the amateur teams these kids played on before that? Think of all the time people from those teams put in developing players?... we can go on and on. I think that teams deserve compensation, but millions is ridiculous. $900,000 is more than fair.

 

[Resolute]

All these clubs want money for their players which brings me to this point. Should NCAA clubs be paid for their players? Think of all the money the invested hockeywise and academically in them.

And think of all the money they have made using these atheletes basically as slave labor.

If anything, the NCAA owes its players money.

 

[timmy12]

And think of all the money they have made using these atheletes basically as slave labor.

If anything, the NCAA owes its players money.

$100,000+ dollar education and room and board paid for to play hockey isn't slave labor

 

[The Old Master]

$100,000+ dollar education and room and board paid for to play hockey isn't slave labor

and no one forced them to play
edit; buy malkin a plane ticket and tell the rsl to go pound salt

 

[Hunter Gathers]

And think of all the money they have made using these atheletes basically as slave labor.

If anything, the NCAA owes its players money.

What on Earth are you talking about?

 

[Resolute]

$100,000+ dollar education and room and board paid for to play hockey isn't slave labor

I was looking in broader terms than just hockey. Consider how much money the NCAA rakes in, especially on football and basketball. All at the cost of about $20-25,000 per athlete per year.

Nice scam.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

What about the amateur teams these kids played on before that? Think of all the time people from those teams put in developing players?... we can go on and on. I think that teams deserve compensation, but millions is ridiculous. $900,000 is more than fair.

Answer here

 

[Haute Couture]

Hockey players start playing for the COLLEGE teams att he age of 18 the EARLIEST (many actually wait out in BCHL, USHL, and NAHL-type leagues and start their freshman season at the age of 20-21). This is the age talented Russian kids turn PRO.

Meaning that they were brought up from the EARLIEST of ages, 7-8, up all the way to their professional age. Nevermind that it's a lot of money to buy all the equipment for around 10 years, to fly all over Russia on tournaments, spend money on training, ice time, food, etc.. And nevermind the contracts that these players sign, which, if the player's talened enough, like Malkin, are quite generous for their ages. $1 million would not come close to reimbursing Metallurg Magnitogorsk for its star hockey player - nevermind actually giving them an EXTRA sum, like an incentive, to produce other great hockey players. Or else hockey schools are inherently devoid of any kind of profit. On the contrary.

remember, that just going outside and playing would not make any Russian kid a superstar. This is not Canada. A new study reveals that per-unit of population, the United States now has more adults playing hockey than Russia.

 

[Sammy*]

Hockey players start playing for the COLLEGE teams att he age of 18 the EARLIEST (many actually wait out in BCHL, USHL, and NAHL-type leagues and start their freshman season at the age of 20-21). This is the age talented Russian kids turn PRO.

Meaning that they were brought up from the EARLIEST of ages, 7-8, up all the way to their professional age. Nevermind that it's a lot of money to buy all the equipment for around 10 years, to fly all over Russia on tournaments, spend money on training, ice time, food, etc.. And nevermind the contracts that these players sign, which, if the player's talened enough, like Malkin, are quite generous for their ages. $1 million would not come close to reimbursing Metallurg Magnitogorsk for its star hockey player - nevermind actually giving them an EXTRA sum, like an incentive, to produce other great hockey players. Or else hockey schools are inherently devoid of any kind of profit. On the contrary.

remember, that just going outside and playing would not make any Russian kid a superstar. This is not Canada. A new study reveals that per-unit of population, the United States now has more adults playing hockey than Russia.

I dont really understand your point, but do you think here in Canada ,hockey schools, the time of all the volunteers, the cost of all the equipment, the cost of icetime, the cost of going to tourneys, membership , hotels....etc is all free?

 

[jekoh]

This is a little OT, but why would a Russian player like Malkin sign a 4 year deal knowing that it would be difficult to break when he wants to come to the NHL?

Why ? To negotiate a bigger salary, that's why !

 

[Resolute]

Meaning that they were brought up from the EARLIEST of ages, 7-8, up all the way to their professional age. Nevermind that it's a lot of money to buy all the equipment for around 10 years, to fly all over Russia on tournaments, spend money on training, ice time, food, etc.. And nevermind the contracts that these players sign, which, if the player's talened enough, like Malkin, are quite generous for their ages. $1 million would not come close to reimbursing Metallurg Magnitogorsk for its star hockey player - nevermind actually giving them an EXTRA sum, like an incentive, to produce other great hockey players. Or else hockey schools are inherently devoid of any kind of profit. On the contrary.

On the flip side, trying to extort the NHL with completely ridiculous demands ($25 million) based on invalid comparisons (a soccer player who had 5 pro years under his belt) is not a wise decision either.

I wonder if Malkin would have signed a contract through 2008 if he knew what kind of problems Metallurg would cause him? Maybe he signs a deal that expires when he gets drafted, moves to North America, and Metallurg gets nothing at all?

Maybe future Russian kids start doing this, and the RHF loses out big time. $900k is a lot better than $0.

 

[jekoh]

I wonder if Malkin would have signed a contract through 2008 if he knew what kind of problems Metallurg would cause him? Maybe he signs a deal that expires when he gets drafted,

That's what he did, it seems. If Malkin really has a 4-year contract ending in 2008, it means it was signed just weeks after he was drafted.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I was looking in broader terms than just hockey. Consider how much money the NCAA rakes in, especially on football and basketball. All at the cost of about $20-25,000 per athlete per year.

Nice scam.

And where would be a better option for them?

To turn pro earlier? Yeah, right.

 

[kingpest19]

I was looking in broader terms than just hockey. Consider how much money the NCAA rakes in, especially on football and basketball. All at the cost of about $20-25,000 per athlete per year.

Nice scam.

20-25 a year? what school is this? At some of the higher end schools your looking upwards of that. Yeah the schools makes money on these kids but look at what they get. Everything is handed to them while a regular student has to struggle to make tuition and if they have students loans theyll be paying on them for years. Its a two way street. School makes money but athlete gets EVERYTHING for free.

 

[Beesfan]

Hockey players start playing for the COLLEGE teams att he age of 18 the EARLIEST (many actually wait out in BCHL, USHL, and NAHL-type leagues and start their freshman season at the age of 20-21). This is the age talented Russian kids turn PRO.

Meaning that they were brought up from the EARLIEST of ages, 7-8, up all the way to their professional age. Nevermind that it's a lot of money to buy all the equipment for around 10 years, to fly all over Russia on tournaments, spend money on training, ice time, food, etc.. And nevermind the contracts that these players sign, which, if the player's talened enough, like Malkin, are quite generous for their ages. $1 million would not come close to reimbursing Metallurg Magnitogorsk for its star hockey player - nevermind actually giving them an EXTRA sum, like an incentive, to produce other great hockey players. Or else hockey schools are inherently devoid of any kind of profit. On the contrary.

remember, that just going outside and playing would not make any Russian kid a superstar. This is not Canada. A new study reveals that per-unit of population, the United States now has more adults playing hockey than Russia.

If the Russian government or a franchise wants to pay money to develop players starting at age 7 rather than private leagues where kids pay, then that is their business, but this does not give them a claim on this person for the rest of eternity. USA hockey now has the NTDP, and they do this for the sake of advancing the sport and improving US performance in international tournaments, but they don't ask for compensation for a player like Phil Kessel even though they put a lot of resources into him.

My opinion is that Pittsburgh should try every tactic they can to get Malkin to the USA, but at the end of the day, they must comply with the law. If it is not possible to lawfully get Malkin over here, then they need to pay up or wait.

 

[Kirk Muller*]

Hockey players start playing for the COLLEGE teams att he age of 18 the EARLIEST (many actually wait out in BCHL, USHL, and NAHL-type leagues and start their freshman season at the age of 20-21). This is the age talented Russian kids turn PRO.

Meaning that they were brought up from the EARLIEST of ages, 7-8, up all the way to their professional age. Nevermind that it's a lot of money to buy all the equipment for around 10 years, to fly all over Russia on tournaments, spend money on training, ice time, food, etc.. And nevermind the contracts that these players sign, which, if the player's talened enough, like Malkin, are quite generous for their ages. $1 million would not come close to reimbursing Metallurg Magnitogorsk for its star hockey player - nevermind actually giving them an EXTRA sum, like an incentive, to produce other great hockey players. Or else hockey schools are inherently devoid of any kind of profit. On the contrary.

remember, that just going outside and playing would not make any Russian kid a superstar. This is not Canada. A new study reveals that per-unit of population, the United States now has more adults playing hockey than Russia.

So what ?

If they decide to invest tons of resources and time into a player, that's their free choice. It does not give them any claim over the player.

I find it comical that the only people who defend the idea of Ovechkins or Malkins being stopped from playing in North America are either the frustrated old boys of the RSL, or expatriate Russian nationalist youths who've lived most of their life in the priviledge of North America.

 

[jekoh]

If the Russian government or a franchise wants to pay money to develop players starting at age 7 rather than private leagues where kids pay, then that is their business, but this does not give them a claim on this person for the rest of eternity.

True. But the contract that they signed does give them a claim.

If it wasn't an NHL team trying to get Malkin, they would have to buy out the contract. That's the normal way to sign players.

 

[Kirk Muller*]

I thought that there was some loophole that pretty much voided Ovechkin's contract. I'm probably wrong, however.

Although I do think that the contract should be bought out, either way.

There was a lot of confusion about it.

Ovechkin signed a contract with an NHL opt-out clause with Avangard Omsk. Dynamo said they were "matching" the contract, even though there are apparently no rules for "matching". A Russian arbitrator decided that Ovechkin had to play with Dynamo and not go to the NHL. Ovechkin said fook that and just went to Washington to play. Dynamo sued in a US court to force him to come back and their case was thrown out. So Dynamo didn't get a red penny from the Capitals. I don't see how Metallurg will get anything more from Mario.

 

[jekoh]

I find it comical that the only people who defend the idea of Ovechkins or Malkins being stopped from playing in North America are either the frustrated old boys of the RSL, or expatriate Russian nationalist youths who've lived most of their life in the priviledge of North America.

Magnitogorsk doesn't want to stop Malkin from playing in North America, they want fair compensation.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Magnitogorsk doesn't want to stop Malkin from playing in North America, they want fair compensation.

Which is why Russia signs the IIHF agreement this summer. This way they get something. Otherwise the smart money says that one way or another Malkin comes over for nothing.

 

[MaV]

There is a quirk in Russian law that has been quoted here often before that allows a worker in Russia to walk from any job, voiding any contract, with two weeks notice. Long and short of it is that in the end this is why Russia will sign the deal this summer.

I would like to hear from someone who knows Russian law. Because, that's not really a quirk, it's just the common form of employment, a contract that allows the worker to leave with something like two weeks notice and the employer can break the contract on usually a longer notice. The contract is in effect until either party breaks it on these common terms. That's how it works else where. I would be surprised if in Russia these rules would apply to specific contract for a defined time period, for example one year. But again, I would like to hear from some one who knows.

 

[Kirk Muller*]

All these clubs want money for their players which brings me to this point. Should NCAA clubs be paid for their players? Think of all the money the invested hockeywise and academically in them.

No. Investing into developing a hockey player is a free choice. It does not obligate the player to do anything in return other than play hockey for you at the present time. There is no contract that binds them to do anything more than that.

If Malkin did indeed sign a contract that said he would play for them through 2008, then yes, there should be compensation. On the other hand, it is no clear what type of contract he signed. Apparently, in Russia, you can simply resign from your hockey contract just like any other job. In this case, there is no reason to give Metallurg any compensation. They can posture and threaten, and then sue and lose just like Dynamo did with Ovechkin.

The NHL would have an interest in signing an agreement that allows for the secure and systematic transfer of players without any surprises and without having to negotiate individually with any team. It's not necessarily right, but it's in the NHL's interest.

 

[Kirk Muller*]

I would like to hear from someone who knows Russian law. Because, that's not really a quirk, it's just the common form of employment, a contract that allows the worker to leave with something like two weeks notice and the employer can break the contract on usually a longer notice. The contract is in effect until either party breaks it on these common terms. That's how it works else where. I would be surprised if in Russia these rules would apply to specific contract for a defined time period, for example one year. But again, I would like to hear from some one who knows.

"Under Russian labor law, there are no special contractual provisions for hockey players. Hockey players are the same as factory workers in that they can write a letter of resignation to their employer and are free to seek employment elsewhere. It's not like restricted free agency in the NHL," says Kuperman (former director of hockey information for the Phoenix Coyotes and the assistant general manager for Russia's bronze-medal winning 2002 Olympic team).

Nevertheless, a Russian arbitrator ruled Ovechkin had a valid contract to play for Dynamo this season. The player left Moscow, anyway, and reported to the Capitals.

http://www.nhl.com/features/pond/russia033006.html

So obviously, it's not cut and clear.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

USA hockey now has the NTDP, and they do this for the sake of advancing the sport and improving US performance in international tournaments, but they don't ask for compensation for a player like Phil Kessel even though they put a lot of resources into him.

Clubs in Sweden and other contrys spend a lot of money on developing kids as well and some compensation would really just help the clubs to develop more players. Lets say a lower league club in Sweden with very little money and I really mean very little money have a youth team who cost money every year. Money who is hard to raise since they are a small club and the sponsors arent really queuing up to spend money on the team. But if they would find a gem among those kids who later on would turn pro some cash for him could save the whole club for a long time. And I am not talking about large sums here, not for the NHL teams anyway.

 

[Fredrik]

Which is why Russia signs the IIHF agreement this summer. This way they get something. Otherwise the smart money says that one way or another Malkin comes over for nothing.

We'll see. I think some people in Pennsylvania may be in for a surprise.