Post-Game Talk: Major Leadership, Character, Coaching issues in Calgary

[Lunatik]

Shades of Glencross IMO.

To a degree. Ferland is a bit better goal scorer but more likely to challenge for the Cy Young than Glencross ever was. Glencross was never as physical as Ferland can be and has never disappeared as much physically as Ferland does. Also defensively Glencross was far superior.

 

[FlamerForLife]

1st domino to fall.

 

[Mobiandi]

I'd rather keep GG than pursue AV

 

[DFF]

1st domino to fall.

Hope BT is watching and understand what he needs to follow up

 

[DFF]

I'd rather keep GG than pursue AV

You dont...I dont want AV neither but a pylon maybe better than GG

 

[Calculon]

First preference is probably still Trotz. But Vigeault would be better than Gulutzan easily; he's just more suited for contending teams and has a short shelf life.

 

[Rangediddy]

Why wouldn’t Vigneualt be a decent option? I feel like he’s a players coach (which the players like about GG), but actually can run a better system than GG.

There may be other coaches available, but Vigneault wouldn’t be the worst pick

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

This is like Alain’s worst season as a coach. And look at their blue line. He is a good coach. Would love if he was our coach. But would prefer Trotz for sure. Also still holding out hope for Dale Hunter. I also like Dominic Ducharme. Thought he’s done a really good job with Team Canada the last two years.

 

[Mobiandi]

The way Rangers fans talk about him, he seems more rigid and more pro-useless veteran than GG. They're all cheering that he's gone. Doesn't seem like they liked him very much even when they were a playoff team

 

[Anglesmith]

The way Rangers fans talk about him, he seems more rigid and more pro-useless veteran than GG. They're all cheering that he's gone. Doesn't seem like they liked him very much even when they were a playoff team

But he is the grass on the other side, and is therefore obviously greener.

Honestly, when you get comments like "a pylon would be better than Glen Gulutzan at coaching," you know you aren't really dealing with level-headed analysis. I don't think there are many fanbases of successful teams around the league who don't complain about their coach in some regard. There aren't many coaches who leave their position voluntarily, and even when they do (like Babcock), they still have their fair share of detractors. So any coach that we hire will eventually become hated over time. Vigneault certainly has some positive aspects to his record to point to, and he also has a lot of the same characteristics that piss people off about our current coaches.

With regards to Gulutzan, I've kinda flip-flopped all year. I like the argument about trying to let a coach grow with a team, and if you give up on GG now, you don't let that happen, and perhaps you end up setting things back a couple years where we have to go through this same process again with a new coach. But at the same time, there are various examples around the league where a new coach gets instant, dramatic results, which makes a coaching change very tempting. I'm not sure what to think, and I'm glad I'm not paid to make the decision. I'm very curious about what the Flames are thinking heading into the off-season. The Flames definitely haven't done anything to make either decision the wrong one.

 

[DFF]

But he is the grass on the other side, and is therefore obviously greener.

Honestly, when you get comments like "a pylon would be better than Glen Gulutzan at coaching," you know you aren't really dealing with level-headed analysis. .

Yeah but it's no worse than people that ignore the performance of this team in the last couple months and think coaching is not a fatal problem. There are so many issues with GG that I lost count and the guy has never won in this league so it's not like this is abnormal.

In this case it's not the grass is greener on the other side, it's f***ing full of weeds on this side.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

A friendly reminder to all visitors from other boards, this is a troll free zone. Just like how Alberta is a rat free zone, CFHF has no trolls with no exceptions. If you see a troll, report it right away, and we will take care of that vermin for you.

Thank you and enjoy your weekend.

 

[Anglesmith]

Yeah but it's no worse than people that ignore the performance of this team in the last couple months and think coaching is not a fatal problem. There are so many issues with GG that I lost count and the guy has never won in this league so it's not like this is abnormal.

In this case it's not the grass is greener on the other side, it's ****ing full of weeds on this side.

That's just the frustrating thing with sports, though. Way too many variables. It can be comforting, for sure, to suggest that there is a quick fix, to convince ourselves that we know exactly what the problem is- that there even is a problem in the first place, even- and that we're just one change away from success. But in reality, it's such a complicated mix.

To amend what I said before, I don't know if it is really right to classify my outlook as optimistic. If I was optimistic, I think I would expect a championship at some point, but I can honestly say I don't. I think it's more just that I'm realistic and resigned to reality. It's soon to be a 32 team league, with 31 teams vying to prevent our one team from winning. The reality of the situation is that an absolute ton needs to go right in order for a team to win the Cup. There are so many factors that go into a team's success, and an organization can do everything right and still not win, and that's just the reality of the situation. There are an awful lot of fans who have made themselves heard this year who seem to be of the opinion that building a Cup champion is a simple recipe that, if done right, will always lead to success, but that's just not the reality of the situation. The best an organization can do is give themselves a good shot and hope for the best. I think the best chance to be happy as a fan and remain engaged is to have that perspective. You may never get to see your team win the Cup, and so if that's the expectation you set to be a happy fan, you're just setting yourself up for misery.

This was a nightmare season for the Flames, especially towards the end, but there are myriad reasons for why that could be. The coaching is just one factor to look at. And it could definitely be something that is preventing the Flames from having the best possible chance, for sure. But that isn't something that can definitely be known. We could replace the coach and things could get worse. Or better. Or they could stay the same. Sports are a funny thing. We could change nothing going into next year and get way better results, just because of a different feel in the room, certain players having better years, etc. None of these suggestions are things that haven't happened before. Hell, just look at Colorado last year to this year.

So no, I wouldn't say that anyone's opinions are out of the question. Thinking that coaching is not a fatal problem is a valid position for someone to have.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

That's just the frustrating thing with sports, though. Way too many variables. It can be comforting, for sure, to suggest that there is a quick fix, to convince ourselves that we know exactly what the problem is- that there even is a problem in the first place, even- and that we're just one change away from success. But in reality, it's such a complicated mix.

To amend what I said before, I don't know if it is really right to classify my outlook as optimistic. If I was optimistic, I think I would expect a championship at some point, but I can honestly say I don't. I think it's more just that I'm realistic and resigned to reality. It's soon to be a 32 team league, with 31 teams vying to prevent our one team from winning. The reality of the situation is that an absolute ton needs to go right in order for a team to win the Cup. There are so many factors that go into a team's success, and an organization can do everything right and still not win, and that's just the reality of the situation. There are an awful lot of fans who have made themselves heard this year who seem to be of the opinion that building a Cup champion is a simple recipe that, if done right, will always lead to success, but that's just not the reality of the situation. The best an organization can do is give themselves a good shot and hope for the best. I think the best chance to be happy as a fan and remain engaged is to have that perspective. You may never get to see your team win the Cup, and so if that's the expectation you set to be a happy fan, you're just setting yourself up for misery.

This was a nightmare season for the Flames, especially towards the end, but there are myriad reasons for why that could be. The coaching is just one factor to look at. And it could definitely be something that is preventing the Flames from having the best possible chance, for sure. But that isn't something that can definitely be known. We could replace the coach and things could get worse. Or better. Or they could stay the same. Sports are a funny thing. We could change nothing going into next year and get way better results, just because of a different feel in the room, certain players having better years, etc. None of these suggestions are things that haven't happened before. Hell, just look at Colorado last year to this year.

So no, I wouldn't say that anyone's opinions are out of the question. Thinking that coaching is not a fatal problem is a valid position for someone to have.

All fair points, although I have other opinions on the matter regarding utilization/systems/decisions - but Gulutzan needs to be fired if for no other reason than to give two of our three most important pieces a reset. Sam Bennett went from a solid rookie season oozing with upside in 2015-16 to back-to-back 26 point seasons - and he spent all of last season on the wing debunking the theory that position was the reason for his struggles (in fact he was worse last year than he was two years ago). TJ Brodie went from a Norris-caliber season to back-to-back poor seasons. At this point there are two solutions:

1) Give up on your Toews (Bennett) and Keith (Brodie) to build around your Seabrook (Hamilton) and Sharp (Monahan)

2) See if a different coach can produce a different outcome for two players who are absolutely and invariably vital to this team's success.

I think the likelyhood that Bennett or Brodie find their game under Glen Gulutzan in his third season is extremely low. There just is not a fit there, even if the talent is obvious.

People want to trade these two players but you look at their body of work before Gulutzan and it's clear there is more there than a 26 point 3rd line winger or a 35 point turnover machine 2nd pair defenseman. No trade is going to return equal value. You can only help these players turn it around at the expense of your own team success by trading them.

 

[Iggys Dome]

There's always a chance if Gulutzan stays this team somehow puts it together next year. Part of me wants to see that happen, but I think Tre has a lot of pressure on him from media and the fanbase (and likely ownership) to fire Gulutzan and go after a big name coach like AV or Trotz if he's available at season's end.

This season was a colossal failure, perhaps the biggest in Calgary Flames history. No two ways about it. Prior to this season we were touted as a 100 point team by the manager and coach themselves. We mortgaged this years draft for Travis Hamonic, we were looking to contend for the Pacific division title. This made most of us okay with the prospect of giving up what was a likely a late first and 2 2nds for Hamonic. Instead, we struggled right out of the gate. We kept our heads above water with Smith's Vezina level play and we were told it "would all come together once the pucks started going in". But, that never happened. We lost 7-5 to Edmonton, and to me that was when I was officially on the Gulutzan out ship. We came out flat in our biggest game of the season up to that point, and only made the score respectable when Gulutzan decided to ditch our system in the 3rd period and we played the most exciting hockey of the season.

Even the 7 game win-streak didn't sway me, we played well but I just knew it would go tits up at some point. Sure enough, after the bye week we collapsed and Smith's injury brought him back down to earth. The team mailed it in at this point, Gulutzan was lost and BT decided to stand pat at the deadline and the collapse got even worse.

I don't even blame BT for not making a move at the deadline for someone like Kane, I doubt this team would make any noise even if we made it with GG at the helm and our abysmal power play not making a difference.

In an ideal world, for me, we acquire a Top 6 Centre and RW to move Backlund and Frolik down to the third line, while at the same time moving Brodie and a d prospect to get those pieces. Slot Andersson in our top 4 next year. Manage Brouwer's minutes heavily so he only plays in ideal situations and doesn't hurt the team, and I think we have a good shot next year.

 

[DFF]

There's always a chance if Gulutzan stays this team somehow puts it together next year. Part of me wants to see that happen, but I think Tre has a lot of pressure on him from media and the fanbase (and likely ownership) to fire Gulutzan and go after a big name coach like AV or Trotz if he's available at season's end.

This season was a colossal failure, perhaps the biggest in Calgary Flames history. No two ways about it. Prior to this season we were touted as a 100 point team by the manager and coach themselves. We mortgaged this years draft for Travis Hamonic, we were looking to contend for the Pacific division title. This made most of us okay with the prospect of giving up what was a likely a late first and 2 2nds for Hamonic. Instead, we struggled right out of the gate. We kept our heads above water with Smith's Vezina level play and we were told it "would all come together once the pucks started going in". But, that never happened. We lost 7-5 to Edmonton, and to me that was when I was officially on the Gulutzan out ship. We came out flat in our biggest game of the season up to that point, and only made the score respectable when Gulutzan decided to ditch our system in the 3rd period and we played the most exciting hockey of the season.

Even the 7 game win-streak didn't sway me, we played well but I just knew it would go **** up at some point. Sure enough, after the bye week we collapsed and Smith's injury brought him back down to earth. The team mailed it in at this point, Gulutzan was lost and BT decided to stand pat at the deadline and the collapse got even worse.

I don't even blame BT for not making a move at the deadline for someone like Kane, I doubt this team would make any noise even if we made it with GG at the helm and our abysmal power play not making a difference.

In an ideal world, for me, we acquire a Top 6 Centre and RW to move Backlund and Frolik down to the third line, while at the same time moving Brodie and a d prospect to get those pieces. Slot Andersson in our top 4 next year. Manage Brouwer's minutes heavily so he only plays in ideal situations and doesn't hurt the team, and I think we have a good shot next year.

Excellent post. Exactly as it happened. GG screwed up royally and must go

 

[Flames Fanatic]

1) Give up on your Toews (Bennett) and Keith (Brodie) to build around your Seabrook (Hamilton) and Sharp (Monahan)

I'm all for giving up on GG but really man? How much kool aid do you drink every morning?

You said that if our fake #1C (Monahan) was gone, our true number #1C (Bennett) would step up. He had ample opportunity with Monahan out. How'd that work out for him?

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

I'm all for giving up on GG but really man? How much kool aid do you drink every morning?

You said that if our fake #1C (Monahan) was gone, our true number #1C (Bennett) would step up. He had ample opportunity with Monahan out. How'd that work out for him?

Yeah it’s funny that no one seemed to notice Gaudreau didn’t produce after Money left. Coincidence? Probably to the Monahan haters

 

[SKRusty]

Yeah it’s funny that no one seemed to notice Gaudreau didn’t produce after Money left. Coincidence? Probably to the Monahan haters

Yes there are some people that are very noticeably quiet on the forms because the crap that has been spouted on here for months flies opposite to everything that was made apparent today.

Mike Smith knows leadership groups and said the opposite of what Francis and his cronies have said for the latter half of the year. This group is solid and player after player said they KNOW this group can win it all.

 

[Janks]

Can’t believe Money was let to play with so many ailments. Hats off to our 3rd line winger for that. I still think him between Johnny and Sam next year would be a better top line.