Mackinnon Vs Barkov

[tucker3434]

Matt Moulson had a 36 goal season once. Don't come here saying "Barkov's injured blabla" until MacKinnon is more consistent in his scoring. All those farfetched excuses used for MacKinnons previously disappointing numbers are equally applicable to any Panthers player.

MacKinnon had 16 goals last year, 21 the year before and 14 the year before that.. Everybody acknowledged it back then as an issue that was on him but now when he's had a hot 31 games people just religiously praise him without questioning if he can be consistent in this.

HfBoards has the memory of a goldfish. Barkov leads 3-1 in seasons so far (3-2 if we count this season as of now) where he's outperformed MacKinnon.. I doubt the Panthers wish they had MacKinnon all along.

And don’t come in here saying Mack needs to be more consistent until Barkov is healthy.

It’s kind of both of their major flaws. You can’t argue for the one that’s convenient and dismiss the other. If Mack is on fire for 60 games and a ghost for 20, is that actually any different than if Barkov is on fire for 60 but injured for 20? As far as team results go, no. It’s going to be almost the same. Whichever one that can rectify those other 20 games is going to come out on top.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

If Barkov and Huberdeau put away those empty netters like they normally do, we're talking about a game where Barkov has 2 goals, an assist, and kept the Avalanche to five less goals than they scored when he was out last week and the Panthers allowed 7 goals. This was a game of inches and luck.

Don't pretend Mackinnon throwing a backhanded make a wish shot through a backup goalies armpit was more impressive than Barkov's play that gave Huberdeau an open net, or Barkov's Bure move to almost score his second short handed goal of the night, or Barkov's goal to become the league leader in shorthanded goals with four, which is more than 22 other teams have in total.

I've took a lot of time trying to figure out how to respond to this post but I've really struggled. I mean the argument of Barkov vs Mackinnon in general is a great one. Two great players, selected 1-2 in the same year. Strong arguments for both sides make it very close.

But this post... I just.. I don't really know how to explain how insane it is.

The Avalanche beat Florida 2-1 last night. Both Avalanche goals scored by Mackinnon, the Florida goal by Barkov. The game winning goal by Mackinnon was incredible. Made Ekblad look as bad as he actually is by completely walking him, brought the puck hard to the net from the outside with one hand and then put it in short side on the only hole the goalie had available. Yet you are talking about how many points Barkov WOULD HAVE had, if he did things right. Praising his missed shots like they're a good thing. Yet you completely trash Mackinnon's GWG which he completely created and finished while carrying the team on his back.

I'm just so confused at what you're arguing. I mean everyone has a little homer side in them but are your glasses really that thick? That you're going to praise Barkov's f***-ups and trash Mackinnon's positives. Mackinnon took over the game completely. He also played a huge part in shutting down Barkov's line who was by far the worst line Florida had from a shot attempt perspective. Check the shift charts.

Mackinnon and Barkov are two great hockey players. Last night was one night (probably a rare occurrence) where Mackinnon very easily came out on top. You trying to argue otherwise is flat out laughable.

 

[hooverdam]

My favorite thing about this thread is the guy who keeps repeating the Avs/MacKinnon were successful on home ice like that means it doesn't count...when the Avs just beat the Panthers on the road last Saturday! He scored in that game too. Barkov was, as is now customary, injured...

Does striking gold on a second overall ultra elite talent with super-intangibles (Toews, eat your heart out!) make up for burning a first overall pick on Ekblad? Just wondering.

 

[teravaineSAROS]

And don’t come in here saying Mack needs to be more consistent until Barkov is healthy.

It’s kind of both of their major flaws. You can’t argue for the one that’s convenient and dismiss the other. If Mack is on fire for 60 games and a ghost for 20, is that actually any different than if Barkov is on fire for 60 but injured for 20? As far as team results go, no. It’s going to be almost the same. Whichever one that can rectify those other 20 games is going to come out on top.

No I completely agree with that

 

[cgf]

If anything, Barkov is underrated just because he happens to play in Florida. Though that modesty suits Barkov quite well.

Not talking about Barkov but in general playing for a team no one watches can lead to players getting insanely over-rated on HF; see OEL.

Matt Moulson had a 36 goal season once. Don't come here saying "Barkov's injured blabla" until MacKinnon is more consistent in his scoring. All those farfetched excuses used for MacKinnons previously disappointing numbers are equally applicable to any Panthers player.

MacKinnon had 16 goals last year, 21 the year before and 14 the year before that.. Everybody acknowledged it back then as an issue that was on him but now when he's had a hot 31 games people just religiously praise him without questioning if he can be consistent in this.

HfBoards has the memory of a goldfish. Barkov leads 3-1 in seasons so far (3-2 if we count this season as of now) where he's outperformed MacKinnon.. I doubt the Panthers wish they had MacKinnon all along.

Playing on one of the most impotent teams in history (while leading it in scoring by a wider margin than anyone but McDavid) is a farfetched excuse? lol

 

[zzs06]

It seems like a lot of people haven’t actually watched MacKinnon this year and just looked at his numbers from the past few seasons. The player he is this year is the player Colorado hoped they were getting when they drafted him. He is the best player on the ice every night and is absolutely carrying this team. The question obviously is if he can keep it up. If he does for the season than there is no question that he is the better player.

 

[JLo217]

all these Avalanche posters posting about a game in the middle of December..

when is the next time these 2 teams are facing up and with Panthers at home?

It happened already... Avs won 7-3.

 

[Ainec]

It happened already... Avs won 7-3.

ouch they sure missed Barkov that night

MacKinnon with only 1 point? I would've thought he had 3+3 and 5 what if goals reading this thread

 

[JLo217]

ouch they sure missed Barkov that night

MacKinnon with only 1 point? I would've thought he had 3+3 and 5 what if goals reading this thread

You’re really on a mission that I’m not going to try and stop. I was just stating a fact.

My input to the thread:

I like Barkov, but wouldn’t take him over Mack. They’re different players and Mack finally has his team and it’s paying off.

And Mack hit the post twice and Reimer got across to make a good save. He could’ve had 4 goals last night.

 

[Pokecheque]

My take as a biased Avs fan...

Barkov is the more complete and smarter player, and I don't think his raw talent is far removed from MacKinnon's. The only true edge MacKinnon has over Barkov is his explosive speed.

That said, I'm not sure right this instant who I'd take in a redraft. Barkov is an amazing player (the Avs were quite high on him BTW, he would've been the player they took if they passed on MacKinnon), my only caveat with him is his health. If he makes it through this season relatively unscathed then I think the narrative can change on him, but for now he's just a tad injury-prone.

FTR though everyone who's saying "Barkov AINEC" is full of it. The two are comparable, but if I were to say right now who the better player is, I'd say Barkov. Keep in mind, Nate is working very hard to change that this season, but I want to see the full body of work before saying anything further.

 

[Tweaky]

In the game they just played against each other, Barkov was the most common forward opponent on ice for MacKinnon, at 10:13. In that 10:13, 7 of 9 scoring chances were for the Avs, 13 of 19 Shot Attempts were by the Avs, etc.

And 2 of 3 goals were scored by MacKinnon.

Both had missed opportunities for themselves and for linemates. But this game, MacKinnon was the better player. Overall career so far, there might be an argument either way. But I doubt many Avs fans would trade them straight up right now, and neither would most Panthers fans.

 

[cgf]

I wish we could have both...

Jost + Barrie + OTT pick sound good for you Panthers fans? Good, now let's tell Joe...

 

[Regal]

Playing on one of the most impotent teams in history (while leading it in scoring by a wider margin than anyone but McDavid) is a farfetched excuse? lol

I've seen this mentioned several times. Is it referring to percentage lead, because it's not true in pure numbers.

 

[Ainec]

How come MacKinnon only has 64 goals vs Barkov's 76 goals in their last 4 season? And this is with Barkov missing 20 more games

Seems like the only time MacKinnon was better was when Barkov was adjusting to NA ice

 

[Cats2TheCup]

Mackinnon is one of the fastest skaters in the league and Ekblad one of the slowest. Why are you pretending it's an unbelievable achievement that MacKinnon skated passed a gassed Ekblad lol.

 

[Balthazar]

Seems like the only time MacKinnon was better was when Barkov was adjusting to NA ice

Oh And now, too. Because Mackinnon is much better than Barkov now.

 

[Ainec]

Oh And now, too. Because Mackinnon is much better than Barkov now.

hopefully MacKinnon can finish above 53 points

He needs 18 more points

must feel nice to have selected the 4th best player in the draft

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

How come MacKinnon only has 64 goals vs Barkov's 76 goals in their last 4 season? And this is with Barkov missing 20 more games

Seems like the only time MacKinnon was better was when Barkov was adjusting to NA ice

How come Barkov only has 101 assists to MacKinnon's 114? And this is with the Avs being the inferior offensive team over those 4 seasons.

Seems to me picking one area of eachother's game and proclaiming superiority due to it is silly.

Let's look at the two most recent seasons, a time period where Florida has 30 more points than the Avs (~114 games each). Let's adjust both Barkov and MacKinnon to assume a team goals for that is equivalent (Florida's 296) and let's adjust Barkov's games played to MacKinnon's (113).

Wow! Barkov has 39 goals and 100 points. MacKinnon has 33 goals and 100 points. Amazing, both players producing at #1 center rates.

 

[JLo217]

ouch they sure missed Barkov that night

MacKinnon with only 1 point? I would've thought he had 3+3 and 5 what if goals reading this thread

Also Barkov had 0 points and was hurt... can’t be useful if you’re broken.

 

[cgf]

I've seen this mentioned several times. Is it referring to percentage lead, because it's not true in pure numbers.

I can do some math when I get home but I believe you are correct. The gap between the percentage of his team’s points that he was responsible for vs the 2nd leading scorer on his team was bested only by McDavid.

 

[The Abusement Park]

For all the people trashing Macks previous season, he was looking pretty similar last year to how he is this year. Only difference is he actually has a decent supporting cast around him, and a little more consistency.

I mean last year he was the one driving the offense and creating chance after chance, but with how bad the team was last year it was obviously going to affect his point totals.

In saying that, Barkov is a beast and I understand anyone who picks Barkov over Mack but right now it's incredibly close.

 

[Cats2TheCup]

Also Barkov had 0 points and was hurt... can’t be useful if you’re broken.

TIL missing 1 game = completely broken

 

[The Abusement Park]

TIL missing 1 game = completely broken

I mean missing 76 games in 4 years is a whole lot closer to completely broken than totally healthy.

 

[Cats2TheCup]

I mean missing 76 games in 4 years is a whole lot closer to completely broken than totally healthy.

Did McDavid completely break as a rookie when he had that collarbone issue? Is Matthews broken right now? Did Crosby break when he missed a hundred games? The answer, according to your "logic", is yes. Your argument is crap.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Did McDavid completely break as a rookie when he had that collarbone issue? Is Matthews broken right now? Did Crosby break when he missed a hundred games? The answer, according to your "logic", is yes. Which proves you are very smart.

Crosby has been a pretty "fragile" player in the past. McDavid and Matthews haven't A)been in the league long enough to be considered fragile yet and B) haven't been missing games consistently. Yes McDavid missed half the season his rookie year but he also has played a full season, something Barkov can yet claim to have done in 4 seasons, not 2 and a half. So yes I think it's more than fair to call Barkov a fragile player if he's going to miss ~20 games a year, but that doesn't mean Barkov is a bad player.