Series Discussion: (M1) Washington Capitals vs (WC1) Columbus Blue Jackets

[Hivemind]

God I wish we had him back at this point

All the things we complain about with Trotz, Hunter was even worse about. Inept offensive system? Check. Giving middling veterans (Keith Aucoin, Jeff Schultz, John Erskine) roster spots over younger talented players (like Perreault and Orlov)? Check. Relying heavily on "responsible" grinders over offensively talented ones? Gigantic check.

Btw, is Lars Eller doing anything? I think not. Kinda lost in all conversations that secondary scoring is lost. Only Orpik and Beagle (whom many here want to see wasted in the offseason) provided something.

I mean, Eller better step up too.

Did you watch game 2? Eller was great at creating chances around the crease. He was far from the issue, and if he continues to play like that he will end up on the score sheet soon enough.

 

[peterthegreat12]

Every thread on the main boards are full of vultures, acting like the Capitals are going full re-build.

 

[OVrocks]

GMGM claimed he hired Hunter due to his record with London and of course we know another Cap alumni. People can say what they want though, Hunter instilled playoff hockey and the Caps almost made the ECF until Ward's penalty in Game 6.

That team would’ve gotten swept by the Bruins if it wasn’t for Holtby having a historically great series.

 

[EroCaps]

That team would’ve gotten swept by the Bruins if it wasn’t for Holtby having a historically great series.

Holtby was great, (his high point), but the Caps have generally matched up well against Boston.

 

[ovikovy817]

In 138:24 of this series, CBJ only had the lead for 17:33 (less than a period). And we're down by 2.
That is ****ing frustrating.

 

[maacoshark]

In 138:24 of this series, CBJ only had the lead for 17:33 (less than a period). And we're down by 2.
That is ****ing frustrating.

Yup we gave 2 games away at home. Very frustrating games especially game 2 because we dominated the play

 

[txpd]

Every thread on the main boards are full of vultures, acting like the Capitals are going full re-build.

That doesn't make any sense

 

[peterthegreat12]

That doesn't make any sense

Full rebuild makes no sense even if they are swept.

 

[txpd]

Full rebuild makes no sense even if they are swept.

They have a mature roster. Not aging players on expiring contracts.

 

[Bieronymus Trotz]

I will always hate McPhee, but watching the Golden Knights makes me wonder again just how much autonomy he had and how much of his tenure was really Patrick and Ted.

I've seen some stuff like this recently:

General manager George McPhee, assistant GM Kelly McCrimmon and their staff spent a year scouting and running mock drafts, looking for players who fit their no-ego, up-tempo vision.
Then McPhee exploited the expansion draft and other teams' cap situations, making picks and trades. He made moves for the long term but built a team in the short term, with stars, solid veterans and younger players with upside who fit together well.
"They identified the right mix of players," Dallas Stars GM Jim Nill said. "They identified some players that had a potential to be better than what everybody thought."

How much of it is just rationalizing after the fact? How much truth is there to it? I honestly don't know, but it sure seemed like McPhee built the team to tank, not to win.

 

[RandyHolt]

I've seen some stuff like this recently:

How much of it is just rationalizing after the fact? How much truth is there to it? I honestly don't know, but it sure seemed like McPhee built the team to tank, not to win.

Agree. I was arguing back and forth with folks here thinking he would take players to win now, but after seeing his choice of players, felt it was clear he was trying to tank. Including overloading on fringe NHL Dmen. Except of course, taking Schmidt, which seemed like a bit of revenge.

I still feel he built the team to tank. The problem is, the guys he took are all hard working enough, that they easily compete. Like in our prime, the AHL grade teams used to give us fits by simply outworking us. And he also dealt for a good goalie, and did Pitt a huge favor. Which I contend was also a possible jab at us. But it worked out for him short term. Doh, goodbye lottery pick, and ensuring mediocrity / punchers chance for the next 5 years.

And taking players better than anyone thought? If Keith Aucoin was Vegas's best player he'd have had 30 goals and we'd all think he had much more potential than anyone thought.

 

[VaCaps Fan]

GMGM will screw Vegas up long term, those journeymen from the expansion draft have a limited shelf-life and the farm system is non-existant...

 

[Sam Spade]

In 138:24 of this series, CBJ only had the lead for 17:33 (less than a period). And we're down by 2.
That is ****ing frustrating.

It's actually the most Caps thing ever. Outplayed the eventual Cup winners two playoff series in a row, lost both times.

I've never been a goaltending guy, it is such a technical position that I try not to judge, but it would be really cool if the Caps could get a big save at a big moment. I honestly can't remember one since 2012.

 

[Bieronymus Trotz]

Agree. I was arguing back and forth with folks here thinking he would take players to win now, but after seeing his choice of players, felt it was clear he was trying to tank. Including overloading on fringe NHL Dmen. Except of course, taking Schmidt, which seemed like a bit of revenge.

I still feel he built the team to tank. The problem is, the guys he took are all hard working enough, that they easily compete. Like in our prime, the AHL grade teams used to give us fits by simply outworking us. And he also dealt for a good goalie, and did Pitt a huge favor. Which I contend was also a possible jab at us. But it worked out for him short term. Doh, goodbye lottery pick, and ensuring mediocrity / punchers chance for the next 5 years.

And taking players better than anyone thought? If Keith Aucoin was Vegas's best player he'd have had 30 goals and we'd all think he had much more potential than anyone thought.

The thing is...it's possible they really did have this general framework they used, identifying speedy, hard-working players, etc., but just didn't expect the team to be good yet. Maybe they intentionally built a certain type of team but just didn't expect it to be a good version of that type yet. Then they'd deserve some credit. Or maybe they just hired a really, really good coach and got lucky on a couple of players in addition to some, like Marchessault and Smith and in a certain way Perron, who were known-ish to be good. I always liked GMGM personally, but I've always had a sneaking suspicion that he's just kind of dim.

 

[RandyHolt]

The thing is...it's possible they really did have this general framework they used, identifying speedy, hard-working players, etc., but just didn't expect the team to be good yet. Maybe they intentionally built a certain type of team but just didn't expect it to be a good version of that type yet. Then they'd deserve some credit. Or maybe they just hired a really, really good coach and got lucky on a couple of players in addition to some, like Marchessault and Smith and in a certain way Perron, who were known-ish to be good. I always liked GMGM personally, but I've always had a sneaking suspicion that he's just kind of dim.

Great post. Speed and hard work is really 90% of the game nowadays. Up and down your wings, playing solid D, and looking for a scoring chance.

 

[peterthegreat12]

They have a mature roster. Not aging players on expiring contracts.

To play devils advocate, this means nothing.

The folks on the main boards are advocating that the Caps trade their core players. Whether their contracts are aging or not is immaterial to their argument.

 

[RandyHolt]

GMGM will screw Vegas up long term, those journeymen from the expansion draft have a limited shelf-life and the farm system is non-existant...

My theory is that he has now missed out on the top overall pick for the next few years, all but ensuring mediocrity for his tenure at Vegas. He was probably fuming they were competing at the deadline and couldn't sell everyone for 2nd rounders.

Truth be told, I thought he would try to build a winner from day 1, to ensure the popularity of the team and viability of the sport in the middle of the desert. Or at minimum, be under HEAVY pressure from the owners and even the league to field a contender, hence the VERY generous looting of players off of every teams roster, even the leagues worst teams (which didn't seem fair to me). The league does NOT want yet another loser franchise.

I felt that team cannot survive long term off of casino comp'd tickets to the dynamic group of fans; just whoever happens to be in Vegas this weekend, long enough to do a traditional ground up expansion build. Why the hell didn't we get to loot a top 10 player off of every team back in 1974, dammit! Dare I think we'd have won a cup by now.

Errol vs Ray. Guess who won.

EDIT: Look at that BUFFOON in the background.

 

[Sam Spade]

I've been saying this for the last couple of years, and people can disagree with my assessment, but the Caps are going to be fine now, in the immediate future, and beyond, and by fine I mean stay competitive.

edit: I'm gonna move this entire post to the appropriate thread and just leave this sentence here.

 

[Langway]

They have a mature roster. Not aging players on expiring contracts.

The other side of that is: who on this roster stands to improve? You can make a case for Wilson, Burakovsky, Vrana, Stephenson, Gersich, Djoos and Bowey. Then others in the pipeline like Samsonov, AJF and I guess Johansen but is that enough? Is that blend right even if the best case occurs with their younger players along with their first two picks and whatever best offer materializes for Grubauer? I'm not sure there's enough impact there unless they really luck out in the draft this year. They need a new generation of leaders and while Wilson has been tracking in that direction he really hasn't shown that much at all through the first two games. Just the opposite.

It's not just the age of the bulk of the roster but whether a contending window exists (at least, ideally, that should be the question). Of course, ownership isn't going to tear it down because they're more concerned with other factors but there's a decent case to be made should they piss this series away. Clearly the leadership group remains an underwhelming factor and one that's probably not great for younger players to develop under (as-is anyway). If they were to want to shake things up I'd probably consider trading Niskanen, as much as that might dent their chances in the short-term. He can certainly help a contending team for the next few seasons but is likely maxed out at this point and could help them get younger. Ride Orlov/Carlson, keep Kempny, dump Orpik and rebuild the blueline with more speed and skill. I'd consider the same with Backstrom but, again, ownership probably won't allow it.

The best strategic move may be to wait on some of the bigger questions until they hire a new coach and see how it all fits next season playing a more modern style but some decisions will need to be made regardless. Does a forward core including Ovechkin, Backstrom & Oshie have enough speed and manoeuvrability for today's game once the tempo ramps up? They've scored zero top six 5-on-5 goals through two games and these are the sort of questions they need to ask should they seek to get ahead of some issues.

They're going to be fine in the sense that they'll be competitive and in the mix for the playoffs because any team with the main talent they have will until they're broken down.But they're going to need to both hit on a new coach and youth or else the main issues working against them are likely to be there. Even then, I mean, they are the Caps so...

 

[Sam Spade]

My theory is that he has now missed out on the top overall pick for the next few years, all but ensuring mediocrity for his tenure at Vegas. He was probably fuming they were competing at the deadline and couldn't sell everyone for 2nd rounders.

Them missing out on Hughes in 2019 and possibly Alex LaFreniere in 2020 is going to bite them in the ass big time. This year is a great story but for the long term future of the Knights it is horrible.

 

[VaCaps Fan]

Least 1974 Caps have the 1974 "garbage can" Cup!

Would Jim Anderson still rather catch his wife cheating on him?

 

[txpd]

To play devils advocate, this means nothing.

The folks on the main boards are advocating that the Caps trade their core players. Whether their contracts are aging or not is immaterial to their argument.

well...sure. they want to see some action. I look at those core players and project what their production will look like over the next 3 years and then I look at what kind of prospect or draft choice I am going to need just to equal that production.

Things begin and end in this discussion with Ovechkin. Do you really see the Capitals trading the greatest team sports athlete ever to play in Washington for rebuild picks and prospects and watch him make a run at the all time goals record in a different uniform? There is certainly no point in trading the core and keeping Ov and run him out there on a rebuilding team in an empty building.

Trading one core player and work some other trade options to retool, I can see.

 

[bur and 666 others]

Every thread on the main boards are full of vultures, acting like the Capitals are going full re-build.

funny and sad thing, Columbus fans of all people spare a pity on us, saying that there should be 4 wins, not 2.

on other note, why do the caps love make an opposition goalie a hasek? why do the pitts make opposition goalies a sieve and we do opposite? during the reg seasons we do not shoot and opportunistically score, but in the playoffs we start shooting from everywhere and just do not score.

 

[txpd]

Least 1974 Caps have the 1974 "garbage can" Cup!

Would Jim Anderson still rather catch his wife cheating on him?

Tom McVie lived down the street from me. I can barely remember Anderson

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

I've seen some stuff like this recently:

How much of it is just rationalizing after the fact? How much truth is there to it? I honestly don't know, but it sure seemed like McPhee built the team to tank, not to win.

I don't think he was trying to tank, I think he was trying to have a semi-competitive team ala Florida Panthers that would play through the full 82 games in an attempt to secure a playoff spot. McPhee's logic was that the team would entertain the fans a little bit with some "big names" like MAF or Neal, and then he could sell off at the TDL and get a ton of draft picks. GMGM was in a winning situation no matter what happened. He realized he had a competitive team and held on to all the players and added Tatar to try to make a run.

My friend and I predicted Vegas to make the playoffs before the season started. My friend even put $200 on it and it got him $2,400 in return.

I knew it wouldn't be a basement team like the Sabres, and I knew that they could get a playoff spot in the rather weak Pacific division. I just didn't think they would win the division. I thought McDavid would take the Oilers to the division lead, but we all know how that turned out.

GMGM is not the complete fool we think he is. I think he had enough time to reflect on his mistakes during his time as the Capitals' GM before becoming Vegas' GM.