LW/RW Nikolay Goldobin (2014, 27th, SJS; 2017 trade, VAN)
- Thread starter HC Bienne
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Caser
@RUSProspects
He’s so quick.... those defenders were caught with their pants down and he was already gone by the time they realized.
Blade Paradigm
Registered User
- Oct 21, 2017
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Here is a look at how Nikolay Goldobin has played so far this season.
NIKOLAY GOLDOBIN: FIVE-GAME SCOUTING PACK (2017-18 AHL SEASON)
Nikolay Goldobin is a player who requires further development in the AHL at this point in time if he is ever to succeed in the NHL. Scouts and analysts have often referred to him as an enigma who exudes NHL-level skill, but who tends to puck-watch and drift around the ice without the intensity required to play in the NHL. While he is unquestionably talented, his concept of hockey needs to be significantly revised for him to succeed at the NHL level. Fortunately, the Vancouver Canucks seem committed to helping Goldobin rebuild his game within a framework that allows him to excel. Furthermore, he is still young -- just 22 years old years of age. With patience, dedication, and perseverance, a year with the Utica Comets should be beneficial for the young winger.
After a disappointing 2017 preseason with the Vancouver Canucks, Goldobin was sent to the club's AHL affiliate, the Utica Comets, where he has slowly gained the trust of the team's new coach, Trent Cull. After a season debut that saw Goldobin play approximately 15 minutes worth of ice time, his ice time per game over the course of the month started to increase. By the end of the month, Cull had placed Goldobin on the team's penalty kill, and his ice time now exceeds 20 minutes per game on the team's top line with Reid Boucher on the other wing. Goldobin leads the team with 5 goals, 7 assists, 12 points in 10 games, but his shortcomings must still be addressed.
The games featured (and corresponding time stamps) are:
(0:15) 2017-10-07: Utica Comets @ Toronto Marlies
(16:42) 2017-10-13: Utica Comets @ Rochester Americans
(36:36) 2017-10-21: Utica Comets @ Rochester Americans
(53:21) 2017-10-28: Utica Comets @ Charlotte Checkers
(1:12:06) 2017-10-29: Utica Comets @ Charlotte Checkers
From the start of the season to the end of October, the Comets have worked with Goldobin to better involve himself with the play, to be less prone to making high-risk plays when the danger outweighs the benefits, and to skate with greater intensity on a more frequent basis. He still turns the puck over occasionally with errant passes. He doesn't carry the puck enough in the offensive zone and is much more interested in give-and-go plays when he could probably do more to influence a shift with the puck on his stick. Once every so often, he gets the puck in open ice off the rush and picks up speed, but, for the most part, he does not play with that kind of hustle or assertiveness.
Currently, he is a fundamentally east-west player who loves to make lateral passes and who plays a cerebral game around the middle of the offensive zone with a strong bias towards the left half of the zone; he is much more reserved on the right side, especially along the boards, than he is on the left. More often than not, if a teammate has the puck on the left side of the ice, he transitions into the middle for a one-time attempt. He can look passive at times, as he is always positioning himself around the middle of the zone with his stick on the ice to receive the puck, often opting to remain there rather than make himself open along the boards. He often is reactive to plays, waiting for the puck to become loose among a crowd rather than putting his own pressure on the opposition. If he does forecheck along the boards, he fishes for the puck and doesn't engage with his body, or he won't hustle hard enough to get to the boards before the opposition gets there. He shows very little willingness to pressure the opposition or force the opposition to turn the puck over; more often than not, he waves his stick at the puck but nearly always keeps himself awkwardly at a stick's length from the opponent as if he is playing non-contact hockey, giving the opposition time to move the puck; if he is skating towards the puck carrier along the boards, he may even stop skating so that he can poke at the puck from a stick's length instead of skate into a body check. He does not play with pace, nor does he play with any sense of physicality. He never steals pucks forcefully or pushes through bodies to make a play; he never dictates the pace of the game and instead tends to let the puck come to him.
Goldobin is, at his essence, a very highly-skilled finesse player with uncanny puck skills; however, his positioning and habits need to be reworked if he is to take full advantage of his skill set. He does not play with enough tenacity or courage. He does not battle through obstacles and tends to let others do a lot of the hard work in traffic for him. He is a sublime passer and is a lethal threat with his shot; he isn't the most dangerous one-on-one player, but he protects the puck well, has sufficient edge work skills to weave his body around obstacles and remain elusive with the puck on his stick, and has terrific puck retention skills. He also can be explosive at times, but needs to play at a higher tempo and utilize this speed more frequently to pressure the opposition. If there is a loose puck, he can gather it in, control it, and distribute it effectively. Through the neutral zone, he is skilled at zone entries with good side-stepping abilities. The Comets are in the process of changing some of his habits so that he doesn't handcuff teammates with unexpected puck decisions and also puts himself in better position to affect the play positively without the puck.
Last week -- the week of October 29, 2017 --, the Utica Comets started to utilize him on the penalty kill; they are implementing better structure into his game.
Hopefully, the Utica Comets can refine his decision-making with the puck and have him play with greater intensity, tenacity, and assertiveness. This is a player who, despite his success in the AHL, must remodel his game and change his mindset in order to fully take advantage of his skill set. This is not the time to recall him to the NHL.
NIKOLAY GOLDOBIN: FIVE-GAME SCOUTING PACK (2017-18 AHL SEASON)
Nikolay Goldobin is a player who requires further development in the AHL at this point in time if he is ever to succeed in the NHL. Scouts and analysts have often referred to him as an enigma who exudes NHL-level skill, but who tends to puck-watch and drift around the ice without the intensity required to play in the NHL. While he is unquestionably talented, his concept of hockey needs to be significantly revised for him to succeed at the NHL level. Fortunately, the Vancouver Canucks seem committed to helping Goldobin rebuild his game within a framework that allows him to excel. Furthermore, he is still young -- just 22 years old years of age. With patience, dedication, and perseverance, a year with the Utica Comets should be beneficial for the young winger.
After a disappointing 2017 preseason with the Vancouver Canucks, Goldobin was sent to the club's AHL affiliate, the Utica Comets, where he has slowly gained the trust of the team's new coach, Trent Cull. After a season debut that saw Goldobin play approximately 15 minutes worth of ice time, his ice time per game over the course of the month started to increase. By the end of the month, Cull had placed Goldobin on the team's penalty kill, and his ice time now exceeds 20 minutes per game on the team's top line with Reid Boucher on the other wing. Goldobin leads the team with 5 goals, 7 assists, 12 points in 10 games, but his shortcomings must still be addressed.
The games featured (and corresponding time stamps) are:
(0:15) 2017-10-07: Utica Comets @ Toronto Marlies
(16:42) 2017-10-13: Utica Comets @ Rochester Americans
(36:36) 2017-10-21: Utica Comets @ Rochester Americans
(53:21) 2017-10-28: Utica Comets @ Charlotte Checkers
(1:12:06) 2017-10-29: Utica Comets @ Charlotte Checkers
From the start of the season to the end of October, the Comets have worked with Goldobin to better involve himself with the play, to be less prone to making high-risk plays when the danger outweighs the benefits, and to skate with greater intensity on a more frequent basis. He still turns the puck over occasionally with errant passes. He doesn't carry the puck enough in the offensive zone and is much more interested in give-and-go plays when he could probably do more to influence a shift with the puck on his stick. Once every so often, he gets the puck in open ice off the rush and picks up speed, but, for the most part, he does not play with that kind of hustle or assertiveness.
Currently, he is a fundamentally east-west player who loves to make lateral passes and who plays a cerebral game around the middle of the offensive zone with a strong bias towards the left half of the zone; he is much more reserved on the right side, especially along the boards, than he is on the left. More often than not, if a teammate has the puck on the left side of the ice, he transitions into the middle for a one-time attempt. He can look passive at times, as he is always positioning himself around the middle of the zone with his stick on the ice to receive the puck, often opting to remain there rather than make himself open along the boards. He often is reactive to plays, waiting for the puck to become loose among a crowd rather than putting his own pressure on the opposition. If he does forecheck along the boards, he fishes for the puck and doesn't engage with his body, or he won't hustle hard enough to get to the boards before the opposition gets there. He shows very little willingness to pressure the opposition or force the opposition to turn the puck over; more often than not, he waves his stick at the puck but nearly always keeps himself awkwardly at a stick's length from the opponent as if he is playing non-contact hockey, giving the opposition time to move the puck; if he is skating towards the puck carrier along the boards, he may even stop skating so that he can poke at the puck from a stick's length instead of skate into a body check. He does not play with pace, nor does he play with any sense of physicality. He never steals pucks forcefully or pushes through bodies to make a play; he never dictates the pace of the game and instead tends to let the puck come to him.
Goldobin is, at his essence, a very highly-skilled finesse player with uncanny puck skills; however, his positioning and habits need to be reworked if he is to take full advantage of his skill set. He does not play with enough tenacity or courage. He does not battle through obstacles and tends to let others do a lot of the hard work in traffic for him. He is a sublime passer and is a lethal threat with his shot; he isn't the most dangerous one-on-one player, but he protects the puck well, has sufficient edge work skills to weave his body around obstacles and remain elusive with the puck on his stick, and has terrific puck retention skills. He also can be explosive at times, but needs to play at a higher tempo and utilize this speed more frequently to pressure the opposition. If there is a loose puck, he can gather it in, control it, and distribute it effectively. Through the neutral zone, he is skilled at zone entries with good side-stepping abilities. The Comets are in the process of changing some of his habits so that he doesn't handcuff teammates with unexpected puck decisions and also puts himself in better position to affect the play positively without the puck.
Last week -- the week of October 29, 2017 --, the Utica Comets started to utilize him on the penalty kill; they are implementing better structure into his game.
Hopefully, the Utica Comets can refine his decision-making with the puck and have him play with greater intensity, tenacity, and assertiveness. This is a player who, despite his success in the AHL, must remodel his game and change his mindset in order to fully take advantage of his skill set. This is not the time to recall him to the NHL.
Last edited:
Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
From watching Goldobin all last year in the AHL, I agree with that report completely. Very thorough and well-worded.
The phrasing “so that he doesn't handcuff teammates with unexpected puck decisions” is funny because I’ve always thought his biggest problem is that he’s just so much more creative and skilled than his linemates that he thinks up all these great plays on the fly but they never even occur to his teammates, so they aren’t prepared and the play falls apart.
Goldobin is different than the average “selfish player” because he isn’t a puck-hog; he truly is a pass-first player who is looking to set up his teammates at all times. The issue is that he is not willing to do the dirty work to get the puck in the first place. He refuses to battle along the boards or engage physically at all. The way you describe him as always a stick-length away from the player he’s supposed to be fighting with for the puck is totally accurate.
I hope Goldobin succeeds because he’s an incredibly talented and fun player to watch, but if Goldobin hasn’t fixed his entirely fixable flaws by now, I wonder if he ever will.
The phrasing “so that he doesn't handcuff teammates with unexpected puck decisions” is funny because I’ve always thought his biggest problem is that he’s just so much more creative and skilled than his linemates that he thinks up all these great plays on the fly but they never even occur to his teammates, so they aren’t prepared and the play falls apart.
Goldobin is different than the average “selfish player” because he isn’t a puck-hog; he truly is a pass-first player who is looking to set up his teammates at all times. The issue is that he is not willing to do the dirty work to get the puck in the first place. He refuses to battle along the boards or engage physically at all. The way you describe him as always a stick-length away from the player he’s supposed to be fighting with for the puck is totally accurate.
I hope Goldobin succeeds because he’s an incredibly talented and fun player to watch, but if Goldobin hasn’t fixed his entirely fixable flaws by now, I wonder if he ever will.
This is very true and not surprising. Most Russian guys play like this because it is how they are trained in their systems growing up (Guys like Kuzentsov and Semin talked about this in several interviews). The ones that stick around are the ones who can adapt by learning to cut most of the cute plays out of their game or are given a longer leash to continue to play their style (Panarin got Kane, never had to change his ways but now in Columbus the story is looking different).
Because of this I wondered why he wouldn't get a long shot playing with the Sedins.
Hansen
tyler motte simp
He clicked with the twins at the end of last season. I was hoping the same, that he would get a good chance. Unfortunately we made some bad signings in Vanek and Gagner and forced him off the team with redundant players.
JetsFan815
Registered User
- Jan 16, 2012
- 19,215
- 24,263
All of these players have mediocre stats in the KHL. Goldobin is probably better than all of these guys with the exception of Buchnevich. I am not sure how you see them as success stories relative to Goldobin
Are you really one of those guys who thinks the AHL is any close to the KHL?They have those mediocre numbers in a much better league while Goldobin is gathering valuable experience in a minor league. And oh yeah, they are still around 22y.o.. It's not like they all were ever expected to become superstars. Their "mediocre" numbers are right where they should be on their development curve, while I highly doubt Goldobin would come close to those numbers in the KHL now.
JetsFan815
Registered User
- Jan 16, 2012
- 19,215
- 24,263
They have those mediocre numbers in a much better league while Goldobin is gathering valuable experience in a minor league. And oh yeah, they are still around 22y.o.. It's not like they all were ever expected to become superstars. Their "mediocre" numbers are right where they should be on their development curve, while I highly doubt Goldobin would come close to those numbers in the KHL now.
No I don't think AHL is similar difficulty to the KHL however based on looking at players who move between different leagues we know roughly how much on average points translate to the NHL. A point in KHL is worth .74 in the NHL. A point in the AHL is worth .47 in the NHL
Goldobin is just over PPG in the AHL, which based on these conversion factors make him about a .5-.56 PPG player in the NHL which translates to .7 to .76 ish PPG player in the KHL.
All the players you posted are .5 PPG or lower in the KHL so based on what Goldobin has done so far in the AHL, he likely outproduces those guys in the KHL. Ofcourse this kind of analysis is not perfect but at the very least it is something concrete that goes against your arbitrary declarations and rhetoric.
I hate these CHL/Russia discussions and I rarely get involved (mostly when someone brings up Provorov as a success story).
I'm sorry but those translations are not at all true. There are a lot of factors that go into projecting a player into NHL, production in another league is just one of them.
I'm sorry but those translations are not at all true. There are a lot of factors that go into projecting a player into NHL, production in another league is just one of them.
The issue is, other than Buchnevich, Goldobin was miles ahead of the aforementioned players at junior age. Now they’re all generally on the same tier if you consider the style of game each plays and what each brings to the table.
Oh now you come up with stats and useless point averages. Of course.
Those translation factors are for lazy people who don't want to watch or for people who don't understand the game and need some fake help from some numbers.
No, they mean nothing in this case. If you don't actually know and watch the leagues you have no idea how they compare.
By the numbers a guy like Evander Kane is an indication that the KHL is much better than the NHL. Now what? Nothing.
And stats. Yeah, North Americans and stats. If only the players would stop playing and we could just project their stats...
From what I actually see Goldobin right now would have a hard time getting a grip in the KHL let alone producing. But another year or two in the AHL could erase even that.
The KHL is the better league without a doubt, however the talent is very concentrated so that the bottom end teams and the players who fill out their rosters are pretty much rubbish. The AHL is more balanced with less of a gap between the top and bottom of the league, but overall a lower level of play (because as soon as a player under 25 starts to produce he gets called up to the NHL).
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However from a player development perspective, the AHL is superior because it (smaller ice) prepares players for the speed of decision making, the physicality and the intensity of practices (and conditioning) they can expect in the NHL. THe KHL is not, and has never been a development oriented league. As the top tier league in Eastern Europe, it has the right to define its own style of play. It's a style of play that is well suited to the large ice surface and development systems that emphasize skills and drills over structure and competition.
I however doubt the top end teams in the KHL would come anywhere near competing with the bottom feeders in the NHL. There is no team in the NHL where Linden Vey, Nigel Dawes, Philip Larsen or Darren Dietz would play 20-25 minutes per night.
Nikolay Goldobin is on the verge of breaking into the NHL as a top 6 forward. At his age, producing at the rate he has in the AHL is very predictive of success in the NHL. The only thing that is holding him back right now is the Canucks aquisitions of Gagner, Vanek, and Burmistrov over the summer and the stale, immovable contract of Loui Eriksson. So I think it's absurd to say that with the larger ice surface, the emphasis on individual skill and rather loose systems play in the KHL, Goldobin would need a couple more years in ther AHL to break into the KHL. In his brief looks at the NHL, he has looked very good offensively, and increasingly competant defensively. He's going to get his chance for a call up later this year and he looks to be ready to run with it.
.
However from a player development perspective, the AHL is superior because it (smaller ice) prepares players for the speed of decision making, the physicality and the intensity of practices (and conditioning) they can expect in the NHL. THe KHL is not, and has never been a development oriented league. As the top tier league in Eastern Europe, it has the right to define its own style of play. It's a style of play that is well suited to the large ice surface and development systems that emphasize skills and drills over structure and competition.
I however doubt the top end teams in the KHL would come anywhere near competing with the bottom feeders in the NHL. There is no team in the NHL where Linden Vey, Nigel Dawes, Philip Larsen or Darren Dietz would play 20-25 minutes per night.
Nikolay Goldobin is on the verge of breaking into the NHL as a top 6 forward. At his age, producing at the rate he has in the AHL is very predictive of success in the NHL. The only thing that is holding him back right now is the Canucks aquisitions of Gagner, Vanek, and Burmistrov over the summer and the stale, immovable contract of Loui Eriksson. So I think it's absurd to say that with the larger ice surface, the emphasis on individual skill and rather loose systems play in the KHL, Goldobin would need a couple more years in ther AHL to break into the KHL. In his brief looks at the NHL, he has looked very good offensively, and increasingly competant defensively. He's going to get his chance for a call up later this year and he looks to be ready to run with it.
Caser
@RUSProspects
Laughable... at best. SKA could easily take on any team in the NHL. KHL's top teams would beat the NHL's bottom feeders. You are delusional about the gap. There is less parity in the KHL and the rink size would play a role and all, but you are stiil out to lunch on this.
And then there is a team in the NHL where Luca Sbisa gets 20 mins a night. Come on! You know it is stupid to pick cherries. Vegas just shed some interesting light on the talent level in the NHL.
And your examples of Barys players do not tell us a thing about the KHL.
Goldobin made a choice. A stupid one in my opinion. And he will pay for it with a Burmistrov like career of a meaningless filler player. He is still much better suited for the big rink and could revive his career in Russia... or stay in NA and become a career AHLer. It's up to him.
There’s some real salt in this post.
Is Goldobin a filler player, a Burmistrov, or a career AHLer? Those are all different things. Goldobin made a choice to play in the best league in the world? Wow that’s an awful choice. Vegas doesn’t shed any light on the talent level. If you’ve watched hockey for any extended period of time, you’d any expect an expansion team to play well at all until they get their footing. It’s a silly thing to say.
Szechwan
Registered User
- Sep 13, 2006
- 5,710
- 5,143
I would love to agree, but you must not have seen Vey in Vancouver under Willie Dejardins. This guy got 20+ min a night on a semi-regular basis, 1st PP time... it was hilarious. So no- not just a case of opportunity. Bigger ice seems to fit him well.
In Vancouver I saw him only a couple of times and never paid much extra attention so I won't challenge the judgment, but statistically he only had 3 games with more than 20 minutes there.
I'm thinking of someone like Tyler Johnson (a little guy not unlike Dawes), Vey narrowly outscored him both in the WHL and in the AHL, but ultimately it was Johnson that made it in the NHL.
I'm thinking of someone like Tyler Johnson (a little guy not unlike Dawes), Vey narrowly outscored him both in the WHL and in the AHL, but ultimately it was Johnson that made it in the NHL.
thelittlecoon
ELIAS PETTERSSON
You are delusional if you think SKA could beat an NHL team easily.
Nothing is easy. Ask team Canada about Latvia. But SKA could compete wth any team in the NHL. Love with it. It's not the end of the world unless you are Don Cherry.
The real salt is in your fruitless attempts to turn the facts upside down.
There’s some real salt in this post.
Is Goldobin a filler player, a Burmistrov, or a career AHLer? Those are all different things. Goldobin made a choice to play in the best league in the world? Wow that’s an awful choice. Vegas doesn’t shed any light on the talent level. If you’ve watched hockey for any extended period of time, you’d any expect an expansion team to play well at all until they get their footing. It’s a silly thing to say.
Let's start with a simple fact. I don't care much about where Goldobin ends up. He is no NT material. If he carves out a NHL career as a 3rd liner for 5+ years, so be it. It's his choice. I highly doubt he can establish himself as a top 6 player by bow.
He made a choice to play in the whatever league in the world? Why isn't he playing in it? Maybe he chose the wrong way to get there?
Vegas exposed Gary's propaganda for what it is. He is pretty goid at letting the press tell the customers his product were getting better every year and tge talent level and blah blah blah
It seems though a bunch of bottom 6 players is not being destroyed by the so mighty talented other teams.
Vegas could easily have guys like the ones people like you always mention on the roster, the Dawes and the Vey guys with the same outcome.
So you ignored a bunch of my points and refused to address what make NA the “bad choice” for Goldobin. Vegas had an anomaly to start the season, they’re falling off now and it’s obvious. I’m so happy that you’ve decided that he isn’t NT material from his many chances to show his potential in the NHL...
The "anomaly" is falling of in front of Maxime Lagace on a tough road trip. Everyone who cares knows that. It is actually amazing they are not getting destroyed. Many other teams would be cooked if they lost 3 goaltenders to injuries.
The bad choice is very effing obvious. He is spending years in the inferior AHL. What are the benefits? Does he learn a lot about the USA on the bus rides?
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