Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by Appleyard, Jan 23, 2016.
Im pretty sure the canucks loan him back to Timra based on his own choice
Looking pretty dam good. Think hed be our 6th best prospect
Cant believe Benning got him for Burrows
So Timra is like one game away from promotion?? Would Dahlen be like a club legend or something?
Timrå has to go through a 7-game kvalserien against Karlskrona to be promoted.
Dahlen really shows up when it counts. 14 goals and 6 assists in 12 playoff games in Allsvenskan, over the last 3 years.
I am equally suprised considering Benning gets fleeced on all his deals. Maybe he should only trade with Dorion as its the only way we can be so posively suprised by his trades
Really? I think he's been doing quite well on trades recently. With the possible exception of the Gudbranson trade I don't really see any huge misses.
He's blown it on pretty much every big trade outside of the Shinkaruk-Granlund, Baertschi-2nd, Dahlen-Burrows, and Bieksa-2nd. Half of those trades the other team approached the Canucks and offered the asset without much negotiation taking place (Ottawa offered Dahlen for Burrows, and it can be presumed that Anaheim offered a 2nd for Bieksa).
Which leaves the following trades that Benning has botched:
Sutter (Bonino alone should have been enough)
Kesler (could have gotten a higher quality asset back rather than quantity)
2nd for Vey
5th for Larsen
Jensen and a 5th for Etem
Kassian for Prust
Garrison is arguable
Hansen (not looking good for either team right now)
Leipsic (too early to tell, but it looks decent)
Subban for Dowd (too early)
As you can see, much more bad trades than good trades. And the bad trades have had a substantially bigger impact than the good ones (McCann and 33rd overall for Gudbranson; Kesler for pennies on the dollar; Forsling for nothing; 2nd round pick for Linden freakin Vey, etc.).
ITT: People didn't read him say the word recently
He was a garbage fire to start his career, but last trade deadline to this season has been just fine
Either way, love Dahlen's fire, he really wants to help Timra get promoted to the SHL He has absolutely put that team on his back
I did, but I don't think that justifies him being a competent negotiator when it comes to trades (or contract extensions).
His recent trades have been very minor (Vanek, Holm, Subban, Pedan, etc.). For every major trade (major in the sense of the value of the player/asset he is trading), he has screwed the pooch.
I guess I just don't see some of those trades as being too bad (Kesler, Kassian, Larsen, Garrison), and I'm not going to discount his good trades because of the assumption that the other team offered it. I just don't think he's nearly as bad as some people make him out to be (Chiarelli level)
The Kesler trade definitely set us back a lot. Look at what Gillis did with Schneider - he brought us in a core piece for the rebuild with Horvat. Kesler should have had a similar impact based on the return he could have brought back. I realize that Kesler only gave a 2 team trade list, but Benning should have focused on quality over quantity. I.e. get the 10th overall pick rather than 24th, Bonino, and Sbisa.
As for the bolded - I'm not so much discounting the trades as I am discounting Benning's ability to negotiate.
Yeah I'm sure you would have a better grasp on how it affected the team since I'm not a Canucks fan. Sorry if I seemed like I was challenging you!
That list of "botched" trades isn't really much to complain about. Jensen for Etem? Who cares? A 5th for Larsen? Again, who the hell cares? Kassian, a player unable to even hold down an NHL because of substance abuse issues, for a 4th line plugger? Yawn. Forsling for Clendenning? Did anyone actually think that was really that bad when it happened? So what if he couldn't offload a player in Vanek for a 5th rounder? Is that the end of the world?
People go off about all the mistakes Benning has made in trades but it's not like he's done anything catastrophic. He's mostly shuffled deck chairs on the Titanic and lost a few draft picks. I've seen rookie GMs do A LOT worse than that. Hell, I've seen experienced GMs do worse. Benning, in my opinion, has been pretty "meh" in trades. A few crappy ones, a few good ones. But, again, nothing to write home about.
But, with the way some people act, you'd think he was trading off superstars for peanuts.
Those minor trades of Etem and Larsen aren't bad as individual trades, but taken holistically, they show a pattern of Benning throwing out draft picks for useless assets.
I'd rather have held onto Kassian and let him get treatment, than trade him for an overpaid plug. Even if both players were useless, it still wouldn't make sense from the perspective of the potential of the players as well as their cap hits. That move was completely unjustified, let alone throwing in a 5th round pick to make matters worse (see my previous point).
I recall a lot of Canucks fans being upset over Forsling and Clendenning. And the fans that weren't probably either hadn't watched Forsling play much, or hadn't watched Clendenning play. I highly doubt that even Benning watched Clendenning play, as his skating was no where close to NHL level. It was a dumb, unnecessary trade that further set back our rebuild.
If you look at all of Benning's trades, there are a few patterns that are concerning. A) Throwing away draft picks because he cannot negotiate well enough; B) not maximizing his asset returns; and C) Giving up on young players with potential for poor returns (Forsling, McCann, Kassian, Subban, etc.). These are all huge concerns given that our team is trying to rebuild.
Good article on Dahlen and his future prospects:
Jonathan Dahlen is finishing what he started in Timrå
Added a bit of insight
Disagree with your insight on the Kesler trade. Benning (and probably ownership) wanted to remain competitive and needed to get back a player to fill the #2 centre spot, so they targeted Bonino. This was a move that wasn't good for a rebuilding team, but was short-sighted as a desperation move to make the playoffs. Had they not requested Bonino, they could have gotten a better pick or asset than 24th overall.
Just because we got a 2nd for Garrison doesn't mean the trade was Garrison for Vey. It was a 2nd round pick for Vey. It was a bad trade, no way around it.
As for Kassian for Prust - then why not waive Kassian? Why give up a 5th and take on a useless player with a higher cap hit? It's poor asset management.
Benning had to trade Kesler because he wanted out. Schneider wanted to play and most thought loungo was going to be traded. Kesler gave the Canucks two teams Anaheim and Chicago. Chicago showed very little interest and had no cap space. All the leverage was in Anaheims hands so I don't think their was any chance of them getting the 8th pick. He did make a mistake in taking Sbisa over Vantanen ( which was rumored to be a choice by Benning). Overall it was a pretty fair trade imo.
Forcing a trade to a narrow list of teams should not ruin the return you get. See the Hamonic trade for a recent example.
Considering Bonino was worth around a late 1st at the time, as well as the 24th overall, we definitely could have gotten a better deal than that based on futures (prospects/picks). Benning opted to go for the deal that kept us more competitive, which was a mistake.
Benning's been fine for us, last year he was great, this year, a little dissapointed, it's not like we made a Erat/Forsberg or a Reinhart Barzal , Hall Larson lop sided trade at any point. glad we have him for 3 more years. wish he was able to do more this draft deadline, love Dhalen's progress.
I almost missed this, the only relevant post on this page!
Can the rest of you guys take the Benning chatter back to the Canucks board and keep this thread on topic?