Confirmed with Link: Luke Glendening re-signed for 4 years 1.8m/yr

njx9

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Feb 1, 2016
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I was thinking about it last night, and I wonder how much of the Glendening/4th line narrative is really based around how he/they played against Tampa last year (two years ago now, I guess). The series really fell apart when he got hurt, and that line was fantastic against Johnson's line, especially compared to this year (I'll add that I have no idea if the stats support that, this is pure eye test). However, I feel like the 4th line was very different this season, either due to poor usage, over usage, or just ability. I wonder what the difference really was.

Meh. Either way, I find myself hoping that AA and Glendening swap total usage time (as well as the other parts of the 4th line) this year, from last year. Luke could be a good defensive/face off specialist, with ~10 minutes a game. There's not really any reason he should ever play more. I've resigned myself to the fact that Z is going to get >20 minutes a game, and fall apart in the second half again.
 

PuckDynasty

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May 3, 2014
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It isn't that he signed Glendening to 4 years at almost 2 million. It's that it's on top of Helm and Miller. Add them together and you have money for a decent UFA, that might be available next year or the year after that could have really added something to the team instead of guys that are what they are and are a dime a dozen, younger and cheaper. On top of that he signed him early, as though he was going to become a UFA for some imaginary better offer and leave the Wings with this gaping hole in their lineup that couldn't easily be filled.:shakehead
 

Henkka

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Jan 31, 2004
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I was thinking about it last night, and I wonder how much of the Glendening/4th line narrative is really based around how he/they played against Tampa last year (two years ago now, I guess). The series really fell apart when he got hurt, and that line was fantastic against Johnson's line, especially compared to this year (I'll add that I have no idea if the stats support that, this is pure eye test). However, I feel like the 4th line was very different this season, either due to poor usage, over usage, or just ability. I wonder what the difference really was.

Meh. Either way, I find myself hoping that AA and Glendening swap total usage time (as well as the other parts of the 4th line) this year, from last year. Luke could be a good defensive/face off specialist, with ~10 minutes a game. There's not really any reason he should ever play more. I've resigned myself to the fact that Z is going to get >20 minutes a game, and fall apart in the second half again.

At the playoffs they used some different lines than at regular season.

Most common were:

Larkin - Zeta - Nyquist (they played 11:17min - 15:00min - 12:46min at ES)
Helm - Datsyuk - Richards (they played 9:45 - 14:29 - 11:02 at ES)
Abdelkader - Glendening - Sheahan (they played 10:59 - 11:32 - 10:48 at ES)
Athanasiou - Andersson - Tatar (they played 8:33 - 5:59 - 11:39 at ES)

As individuals:

Zetterberg 19:35 (15:00 at ES, 4:35 on PP, 0:00 on PK)
Abdelkader 19:08 (10:59 at ES, 4:38 on PP, 3:31 on PK)
Datsyuk__ 18:21 (14:29 at ES, 3:51 on PP, 0:09 on PK)
Nyquist___ 16:51 (12:46 at ES, 4:05 on PP, 0:00 on PK)
Glendening 16:35 (11:31 at ES, 0:25 on PP, 4:37 on PK)
Sheahan__ 16:31 (10:49 at ES, 3:06 on PP, 2:26 on PK)
Tatar____ 15:02 (11:39 at ES, 3:22 on PP, 0:00 on PK)
Richards_ 14:58 (11:02 at ES, 3:55 on PP, 0:00 on PK)
Larkin___ 14:27 (11:17 at ES, 2:57 on PP, 1:04 on PK)
Helm____ 13:02 (9:45 at ES, 0:40 on PP, 2:39 on PK)
Athanasiou 8:40 (8:33 at ES, 0:07 on PP, 0:00 on PK)
Andersson 6:35 (5:59 at ES, 0:01 on PP, 0:34 on PK)

Frans Nielsen played 21:32 for Islanders at the playoffs
15:32 at ES, 3:42 on PP, 2:27 on PK
Nielsen will take Zeta's +19 minutes, Zeta will take Datsyuk's +18 minutes.

Vanek played 15:36 at ES for Minnesota at regular season (injured at playoffs)
12:59 at ES, 2:35 on PP, 0:01 on PK
He replaces Richards straight on.

Steve Ott played 6:52 for St. Louis Blues at playoffs.
He will take Andersson's spot with smallest minutes.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
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Player A is being paid 1.8 million x 4 years

Player A (15-16)
ES Points: 21
SH TOI/Game: 3:08
FO%: 54.6%
Blocked Shots: 71
Hits: 143

Player B is being paid 3.85 million x 5 years

Player B (15-16)
ES Points: 26
SH TOI/Game: 1:48
FO%: 50.6%
Blocked Shots: 33
Hits: 115

Obviously, Player A is Glendening, and Player B is Helm.

If y'all want to be mad at something you should be mad at that god-awful contract given to Darren Helm. That thread should be getting bumped and not this one. You can come at that contract from 100 different angles and it still sucks.
 

Reddwit

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Feb 4, 2016
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It isn't that he signed Glendening to 4 years at almost 2 million. It's that it's on top of Helm and Miller. Add them together and you have money for a decent UFA, that might be available next year or the year after that could have really added something to the team instead of guys that are what they are and are a dime a dozen, younger and cheaper. On top of that he signed him early, as though he was going to become a UFA for some imaginary better offer and leave the Wings with this gaping hole in their lineup that couldn't easily be filled.:shakehead

Too much is being made of Miller's one year throw-away deal. And theres not much wrong with signing Glen early. Last thing we need is Glen putting up anomalous offensive numbers in a contract year.

The problem here is Helm. Same vein of player but costs a ghastly amount with no term benefit and a worse age.

In a vacuum, Glen's deal is fine. And I don't even particularly like the guy.
 

VM1138

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Apr 30, 2007
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4 years just seems like a long term for essentially a 4th line guy.

Just looked at their stats and WOW, Helm and Glendening were very similar players last year. I'm a fan of both guys, but did we really need both when we already have a roster crunch? If I were Holland, I would have looked at their stats, looked at what they were demanding, and kept Glendening and let Helm walk. And like I said, I'm a Helm fan. The team just plays better with Helm in the lineup than without. But it seems like it's one of those tough choices you have to make as GM.
 

HockeyinHD

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Jun 18, 2006
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Helm definitely brings something to every team he plays on. The thing is... Is what he brings worth almost two million more a year than it was last year?

That's the logic trap of free agency, though. When a player has his rights controlled post-draft he's almost never paid his actual worth. Once they become a UFA, they are almost never paid their actual worth.

The difference is during the first part it's typically less and during the second part it's typically more.
 

jkutswings

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Jul 10, 2014
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That's the logic trap of free agency, though. When a player has his rights controlled post-draft he's almost never paid his actual worth. Once they become a UFA, they are almost never paid their actual worth.

The difference is during the first part it's typically less and during the second part it's typically more.
Which is why the draft and trades should be the bulk of building a team, and not a slew of veterans in free agency.
 

HIFE

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May 10, 2011
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Helm had 26 points in 77 games. He was a -2 for the season. He was 4th on the team in hits with 115, behind Abdelkader (207), Glendenning (143), and Ericsson (125).

I can go into his face off and posession stats, but what exactly is so remarkable about this guy to give him the contract he got?

As one of his few supporters I would like to ask how can you not see what Helm creates almost every shift? Like his breakaways and the most scoring chances on the entire team! The problem is he can't bury the puck, we know this. But dude to watch him rightfully climb to a 3rd line and then with Datsyuk for years- winning battles, cycling heavily, overall playing dominant hockey against team's top players.. Helm is worlds beyond Miller or Glendening.

I guess we all have our opinions. I admire what Helm brings. He has one of the harder "in-stride" shots in the league. The jump and strength in his legs may be near the best in the world. I'd rate him as a poor man's Okposo, he can bull his way around winning battles the same way. He is talented, I've seen Helm spazz out and deke 5-10 times through two players for a wide open shot. He could score a lot more goals. We saw him start to develop his touch seasons ago, that can't be gone. He had a scattered year but if he stays healthy for once he should be a serious contributor. He must expect it of himself. I would agree Helm is a gamble, but one that several teams were willing to match.

It's hard to believe the vast majority here lump together Helm and Abdelkader with Miller, Glendening, and Ott in their discussion of the team. The first two are game changers the rest are dead weight in the truest definition. No hope, no upside, nothing but supposed dependability. It's not even about money it's about energy. Glendening is as dead an end as Andersson, Ferraro, Emmerton or Lashoff. When Holland says 16 minutes for Glendening he isn't exaggerating. We'll get to watch him for up to 18 minutes against stronger teams like WAS I promise you, such spectacular hockey. That's the sad part how desperate the Wings have openly become, on the defensive trying to react to pressure instead of creating it. Hey but that new arena...

I'm just not a Glendening fan. He's not a special hockey player in any way. He's not old-school he would never dare fight or lay out a huge open ice check. He has 0 offensive ability/creativity nothing old-school. For as small as he is it seems impossible. Babcock's lonely fantasies that he's a shutdown defender or a pest are silly yet here we are still under his spell. Glendening was hustled in by Berenson and Babcock and he somehow stuck(like melted candy on the bottom of a shoe). If we're so loyal why don't we form a real Michigan team with Krug, Martinez, Rust, Trouba, Kessler, etc etc?

Every name on a roster is hugely important, in fact it's what pushes teams over the top, the depth on your 3rd and 4th lines. Look at Chicago, Rangers, Washington and San Jose's dumpy TD pick ups- Weise, Winnik, Polak, Stall, etc were all fails, definite factors to not being able to move further. Comparing Glendening and a ferocious 4th liner like Martin (again I could care less about the money) is a joke.

Glendening is a nobody and like several of Holland's choices is evidence of the staleness and complacency/stagnation killing this team. Red Wings used to be innovators but for years we've been falling behind. I truly wish we had different owners.

You say there's no better options for 4C? We gave Emmerton and Andersson 4 years each why not give Nosek a shot? Pull a player from the KHL, I guarantee we can find someone able. Here's what I would do: wave Glendening and Athanasiou centers our 4th line. We're immediately a stronger and more dangerous team.
 

Yemack

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Oct 30, 2007
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As one of his few supporters I would like to ask how can you not see what Helm creates almost every shift? Like his breakaways and the most scoring chances on the entire team! The problem is he can't bury the puck, we know this. But dude to watch him rightfully climb to a 3rd line and then with Datsyuk for years- winning battles, cycling heavily, overall playing dominant hockey against team's top players.. Helm is worlds beyond Miller or Glendening.

I guess we all have our opinions. I admire what Helm brings. He has one of the harder "in-stride" shots in the league. The jump and strength in his legs may be near the best in the world. I'd rate him as a poor man's Okposo, he can bull his way around winning battles the same way. He is talented, I've seen Helm spazz out and deke 5-10 times through two players for a wide open shot. He could score a lot more goals. We saw him start to develop his touch seasons ago, that can't be gone. He had a scattered year but if he stays healthy for once he should be a serious contributor. He must expect it of himself. I would agree Helm is a gamble, but one that several teams were willing to match.

It's hard to believe the vast majority here lump together Helm and Abdelkader with Miller, Glendening, and Ott in their discussion of the team. The first two are game changers the rest are dead weight in the truest definition. No hope, no upside, nothing but supposed dependability. It's not even about money it's about energy. Glendening is as dead an end as Andersson, Ferraro, Emmerton or Lashoff. When Holland says 16 minutes for Glendening he isn't exaggerating. We'll get to watch him for up to 18 minutes against stronger teams like WAS I promise you, such spectacular hockey. That's the sad part how desperate the Wings have openly become, on the defensive trying to react to pressure instead of creating it. Hey but that new arena...

I'm just not a Glendening fan. He's not a special hockey player in any way. He's not old-school he would never dare fight or lay out a huge open ice check. He has 0 offensive ability/creativity nothing old-school. For as small as he is it seems impossible. Babcock's lonely fantasies that he's a shutdown defender or a pest are silly yet here we are still under his spell. Glendening was hustled in by Berenson and Babcock and he somehow stuck(like melted candy on the bottom of a shoe). If we're so loyal why don't we form a real Michigan team with Krug, Martinez, Rust, Trouba, Kessler, etc etc?

Every name on a roster is hugely important, in fact it's what pushes teams over the top, the depth on your 3rd and 4th lines. Look at Chicago, Rangers, Washington and San Jose's dumpy TD pick ups- Weise, Winnik, Polak, Stall, etc were all fails, definite factors to not being able to move further. Comparing Glendening and a ferocious 4th liner like Martin (again I could care less about the money) is a joke.

Glendening is a nobody and like several of Holland's choices is evidence of the staleness and complacency/stagnation killing this team. Red Wings used to be innovators but for years we've been falling behind. I truly wish we had different owners.

You say there's no better options for 4C? We gave Emmerton and Andersson 4 years each why not give Nosek a shot? Pull a player from the KHL, I guarantee we can find someone able. Here's what I would do: wave Glendening and Athanasiou centers our 4th line. We're immediately a stronger and more dangerous team.

Helm is better player than Miller and Glendening 'overall'. There is no doubt. However Miller and Glendening have defensive smarts edge over Helm. Also Glendening is kind of player who is very annoying to play against.

I’m kinda late to join in on the discussion and I admit I didn’t read all the comments in this thread but I dont think anybody was really comparing Gledening's offensive prowess against Helm. I don’t see how anybody can argue otherwise. However, by comparing those two players, I think you make it sound like Helm is a mini Datsyuk which he is not. Helm has had his moments and there are couple reasons why he plays on our 2nd line but, he is not really a playmaker or anything like that. By the way, did you mention breakaway? Helm breakaway does not count anymore because what good are breakaways if you can't score on em? Actually you can argue other teams gain confidence from failed attempt. It makes them think that such odd breakaways are necessary risk and press more. If you ask me, I think some of that happened in game 5 against Tampa. As I remember we had quite a bit of breakaways in that game which were not able to capitalize on any of them. By doing so, we made Tampa feel good about themselves and made Bishop better than he actually is in that game.

Getting back on topic, Helm is more offensively gifted player than Glendening which does not say much as Glendening is .. well the play ends up kinda dead with him. However, like I said, Glendening has defensive smarts that very few in this team can match. Blashill was on a very tight rope this season as his job security was in serious jeopardy if he couldnt make playoff. In that situation, why would Blashill trusts Glendening alot? Because he is a Michigan built or maybe Blashill can't see what HF hockey gurus can't see? Maybe Blashill counted on Glendening slightly little more than I would have but given circumstances I kind of understand.

As for Stanley Cup caliber teams having better 4th line players, half of that is true half is not. They perform better because entire team's performance make them easy to play better. If you played in any organized sports or anything similar, you understand your play improves dramatically when the whole team plays well. So, in my opinion, the focus should be on those players who are actually in charge of actually driving the offense, ie 1st and 2nd line players. They have to push the other team in the corner and supposedly make room for other players. Is Darren Helm such player? He makes a room for other players on his line but not to a great degree. Is Darren Helm a 2nd line player on a cup calibre team? Based on what I’ve read I think I appreciate Helm more than many in this forum do, but I dont think he's there yet. It remains to be seen what happens this season though. If he can develop some scoring touches, we can make passes behind the D where helm can be the tip of our counter attack spear.

Glendening is good fourth line player on a reasonable contract as I think he is only going to get better and shorter term contract now would only mean we would be paying a lot more for his service 2 years later.
 
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jkutswings

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Luke Glendenning and Darren Helm are not night in, night out game-changing players. That's what a Kane or a Tavares does. Sure, Luke had a great series in 2015, and sure, the guy has his merits (as does Helm). But this notion that either one is so critical to franchise success that they need to be locked up long-term is ridiculous.

Compared to the crucial pieces that currently prevent the Wings from getting anywhere near a championship, guys like Helm and Glendenning grow on trees. So stop prioritizing their retention over getting some real talent.
 

HockeyinHD

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Which is why the draft and trades should be the bulk of building a team, and not a slew of veterans in free agency.

No doubt. If there's one area where teams always get their proper value, it's in acquiring players via trade.

Just look at the long, storied history of teams making out well by making large acquisitions.
 

Claypool

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Jan 12, 2009
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Luke Glendenning and Darren Helm are not night in, night out game-changing players. That's what a Kane or a Tavares does.

Luke is being paid like 15% of what Kane makes. Don't see what the issue is locking Luke up for four more years.
 

WingedWheel1987

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Jan 11, 2011
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The cap hit isn't the issue. It's the fact that the Wings gave a 4th line grinder a four year deal. It's more of the same from the garbage man.

Locking up middling talent for way too long.

There is no good reason to sign 3rd or 4th line talent for that long. If an organization honestly think's Luke Glendenning provides some kind of unique skill set or talent where they feel he needs to stick around for four years, that organization is doing it wrong.

Spare parts aren't meant to stick around for almost half a decade. There is no value in doing so. It's just what lazy short sighted organizations do.
 

Claypool

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Jan 12, 2009
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The cap hit isn't the issue. It's the fact that the Wings gave a 4th line grinder a four year deal. It's more of the same from the garbage man.

Locking up middling talent for way too long.

There is no good reason to sign 3rd or 4th line talent for that long. If an organization honestly think's Luke Glendenning provides some kind of unique skill set or talent where they feel he needs to stick around for four years, that organization is doing it wrong.

Spare parts aren't meant to stick around for almost half a decade. There is no value in doing so. It's just what lazy short sighted organizations do.

I like Luke and glad he's sticking around. Have fun being angry.
 

jkutswings

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Jul 10, 2014
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No doubt. If there's one area where teams always get their proper value, it's in acquiring players via trade.

Just look at the long, storied history of teams making out well by making large acquisitions.
Neither the draft, nor trades, nor free agency are a guarantee. But my post was noting that free agency is the one means where you are almost always guaranteed to overpay for a player. Thus, it is objectively the least financially prudent method of building a roster.
 

DanZ

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Mar 6, 2008
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The cap hit isn't the issue. It's the fact that the Wings gave a 4th line grinder a four year deal. It's more of the same from the garbage man.

Locking up middling talent for way too long.

There is no good reason to sign 3rd or 4th line talent for that long. If an organization honestly think's Luke Glendenning provides some kind of unique skill set or talent where they feel he needs to stick around for four years, that organization is doing it wrong.

Spare parts aren't meant to stick around for almost half a decade. There is no value in doing so. It's just what lazy short sighted organizations do.

I think the Glendenning contract will be the least of our worries over the next 5 years.
 

HockeyinHD

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Jun 18, 2006
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Neither the draft, nor trades, nor free agency are a guarantee. But my post was noting that free agency is the one means where you are almost always guaranteed to overpay for a player. Thus, it is objectively the least financially prudent method of building a roster.

You are going to overpay for any player you have to transact with whose rights you do not already control.

Trades are overpayments the vast, vast majority of the time. Pretty much every single deadline trade is an overpayment, and often a huge one.

UFA signings are overpayments a slightly less frequent, but still prohibitive, majority of the time.

That's part of the reason why Holland seems to prioritize his roster construction as Draft, UFA, Trades. That's the order of most efficiency per transaction. This seems to jibe with his seeming (over?)willingness to retain players rather than risk entering into a UFA deal or a trade for a player with an unknown (or at least less known) ability to work within the team, which compounds the inefficiency of the UFA signing or trade.

The organization used to try and hit home runs. Now they are batting for average.
 

HockeyinHD

Semi-retired former active poster.
Jun 18, 2006
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Spare parts aren't meant to stick around for almost half a decade. There is no value in doing so. It's just what lazy short sighted organizations do.

No doubt. Detroit should have kicked Draper, McCarty, and Maltby out the door back in 2001. Who needs guys like that around on your roster for a decade, eight? Bleeping lazy bleepheads, that's who.

Honestly, I don't even know why teams put any emphasis at all on their depth players. It's obviously super duper easy to find ones who can get the job done, and heck, it's not like what they do is all that important anyway. If you have, like, a whole bunch of HOF'ers you got for cheap by tricking other GMs out of them you probably won't even miss those 'grinders'. 'Grinders'... that's a stupid name.

Man, I should be a GM. I have this bleep totally figured out.
 

Classicnamesup

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Sep 13, 2013
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You are going to overpay for any player you have to transact with whose rights you do not already control.

Trades are overpayments the vast, vast majority of the time. Pretty much every single deadline trade is an overpayment, and often a huge one.

UFA signings are overpayments a slightly less frequent, but still prohibitive, majority of the time.

That's part of the reason why Holland seems to prioritize his roster construction as Draft, UFA, Trades. That's the order of most efficiency per transaction. This seems to jibe with his seeming (over?)willingness to retain players rather than risk entering into a UFA deal or a trade for a player with an unknown (or at least less known) ability to work within the team, which compounds the inefficiency of the UFA signing or trade.

The organization used to try and hit home runs. Now they are batting for average.

How can all trades be overpayment? Doesn't that mean that one team is being overpaid in each trade? If one team must win a trade, you don't seem too confident that GM will be Kenny. Can't say I blame you
 

WingedWheel1987

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No doubt. Detroit should have kicked Draper, McCarty, and Maltby out the door back in 2001. Who needs guys like that around on your roster for a decade, eight? Bleeping lazy bleepheads, that's who.

Honestly, I don't even know why teams put any emphasis at all on their depth players. It's obviously super duper easy to find ones who can get the job done, and heck, it's not like what they do is all that important anyway. If you have, like, a whole bunch of HOF'ers you got for cheap by tricking other GMs out of them you probably won't even miss those 'grinders'. 'Grinders'... that's a stupid name.

Man, I should be a GM. I have this bleep totally figured out.

No salary cap vs. salary cap.

Doing the same things you did pre cap is moronic. It's how the Wings are about to have one of the most expensive rosters in the league on opening night, and best case scenario is they are only mediocre.

Of course this isn't surprising at all when you realize how bad of a GM Ken Holland is.
 

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