Look for changed Drafting Philosophies after this year

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by Cosis, Feb 15, 2005.

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  1. Cosis

    Cosis Guest

    When the league opens up the ice (as they will be), teams will shift priorities in drafting again.

    What will be in demand? Skating and skill baby. The era of size and toughness is over.

    Will be interesting to see what former prospects get second chances now in the new NHL.

    We might not see the change in all teams first draft or two. But the smart few will adapt quickly.
     
  2. MrMastodonFarm*

    MrMastodonFarm* Registered User

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    The NHL has already been going towards a faster game. Look at 3 of the 4 teams in the Conference finals in 2004. Tampa, Calgary, and San Jose are all very fast teams.

    Players with size (who use there size) will still be valuable though.
     
  3. LaVal

    LaVal Registered User

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    in today's NHL, the priority are players who are both fast and tough. how many good players have fallen in the draft because their skating is only average?
     
  4. Cosis

    Cosis Guest

    The better question is how many guys have had their skating overlooked? Alot.

    Smaller skilled guys will have alot more value while larger slower guys will have less value, in the new NHL.
     
  5. Levitate

    Levitate Registered User

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    teams will always look for bigger, faster players. if you have a guy who is big and skilled and a fast skater vs. a guy who's small and skilled and a fast skater, the big guy will win out, even with the ice "opened up"

    hockey is still a physical sport and all other things equal, a bigger player will do better
     
  6. Cosis

    Cosis Guest


    Well this is kinda my point now. If you got a bigger faster guy and a smaller faster guy, teams will now go for the one with better offensive skills. Which is usually the smaller one.
     
  7. MrMastodonFarm*

    MrMastodonFarm* Registered User

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    What? That is a stupid thing to say.
     
  8. Captain Conservative

    Captain Conservative Registered User

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    :lol
    Oh man, I can see you're gonna have a legendary reputation here.
     
  9. Cosis

    Cosis Guest

    Jesus. Ill respond to this later. I have to run.
     
  10. LaVal

    LaVal Registered User

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    the days of teams drafting lumbering brutes with tons of question marks are gone and have been for years. teams still look for prospects with good size, but also with good skating.

    being small, is quite simply a big question mark. while players are getting bigger, they are also getting faster. no longer are large players necessarily slow. in today's NHL, you have to be big AND fast to survive more often than not. being small and fast is still a handicap when you go up against guys who are big and fast, no matter how much the game is opened up.
     
  11. Jargin

    Jargin Registered User

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    Tell that to Atlanta...
     
  12. Legionnaire

    Legionnaire Kill! Jeff, Kill!!!

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    Correct. The league stemed the tide of that when they started enforcing the obstruction crackdown and instigator rule. Don't laugh. It's totally true. Hockey changed radically around that time.
     
  13. Flames Draft Watcher

    Flames Draft Watcher Registered User

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    Seems like that logic is quite obviously flawed.
     
  14. Flames Draft Watcher

    Flames Draft Watcher Registered User

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    What's your rationale? Why this sudden change?

    I really don't buy your logic at all. Grit or "toughness" has proven to have it's role as you can see by last years playoffs. Size is quite obviously always going to be in demand.

    :dunno:
     
  15. PhoPhan

    PhoPhan Registered User

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    I'll offer a real rebuttal to the "Skilled players are usually smaller" logic. If you look at the NHL, you'll see most of the small players are skilled. The reason for this is, if you're a small player, the only way you can make the NHL is on skill. If you're big, you can get there on skill, or on toughness.
     
  16. Lowetide

    Lowetide Registered User

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    The bias towards size in the draft is long established, and I don't see why that would change any time soon.

    Is there any proof that smaller players are more successful now than 30 years ago? Yvan Cournoyer was lighting it up 30 years ago but they were still handing the Hart to guys like Orr and Clarke.

    imo NHL teams love size because it is effective. I can't imagine an NHL where small players take over any role but the narrow area where they are useful now, unless we're talking about specific players who defy the rule like Stan Jonathan.
     
  17. jb**

    jb** Guest

    Teams that are picking will still tend to: draft by organizational need or take the best player in their eyes available. A more interesting question is how teams like the Flyers, Detroit, Col, Dallas will value first round picks. They usually traded them because they could sign free agents to replace them, with a cap whole different story I think.
     
  18. salty justice

    salty justice Registered User

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    Detroit, Toronto, and Colorado will be hurting under a cap systm over the next few years, I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  19. Cosis

    Cosis Guest

    Ok now let me explain. Most larger guys are not as highly skilled. Why? The odds are against them.

    First they have to beat the odds as far as normal human growth which is 5'9 175 lb average.
    Second, they then have to beat the odds of being skilled which is rare enough as is. So combine the odds of being large in the first place with the odds of having skill and you have a much more rare breed. This is what makes guys like Mario and Lindros so rare while guys like Sakic,St Louis or Yzerman are so much more common.

    There is also the lower center of gravity argument as far as cordination. Basketball and tall guys being a prime example. They run slower and shoot worse for a reason.

    Raise your hand if you have ever seen a scout say " He has the hands or skill of a much smaller guy" *raises hand*. Now raise if it you seen it frequently over the years. *raises hand again* . Hell it probably appears in THN or the Redline report all the time. This is no different then what I am saying. But hey, if you think I am wrong, feel free to think that. But before you suggest that what I said is stupid, you better know wtf you are talking about first.
     
  20. Senor Rational

    Senor Rational Registered User

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    I dont agree with a few things...

    First... St. Louis Yzerman and Sakic are more common....? Than Mario L? Yzerman and Sakic definately arent dime a dozen players. As rare as Mario L? Probally not but there isnt the next Yzerman or Sakic in every draft...

    Also...what if St. Louis had the same skill set, speed, agility, and whatnot and was 6'2 220? He'd be dominate...

    Ive never really ever heard the likes of Thorton Nash or Lecaviler(sp, its horrible) having the skill set or hands of a smaller player...

    Tuergon, KT, Bertuzzi, Nash...have some of the best hand/eye cordination that I can think of and all of them but Tuergon are over six foot (how big is Tuergon? He probally has the best hand/eye out of all of them).

    Man Dont be so offended if someone doesnt agree with what your saying. Its not that big of a deal. You explained your theory and if others do the same this whole board will be discussion filled instead of BS filled.
     
  21. Cosis

    Cosis Guest


    I never said the high skill guys were a dime a dozen. I said they are much more common then big guys with skill. This is fact.

    Heh.Turgeon is anything but a power forward. Hes 6'1 and maybe 200 lbs at most. A little larger then normal but by no means big. 6'4, 6'5 225-255. Thats a big man.

    Lastly, I take a offense when someone calls me stupid. I also will happily return the favor in those instances.
     
  22. Jason MacIsaac

    Jason MacIsaac Registered User

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    I don't think anything will change. The only trend we may see is less Russians being drafted because of the cost to get them over to North America. Players like Zubov, Zharkov and Istomin will fall farther then they should this season. The rich teams will have the advantage drafting russians so I would look to see Detroit continue to stockpile with them :)
     
  23. LaVal

    LaVal Registered User

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    yet the average weight of the top-10 scorers in the past 2 seasons has been 202 and 211 lbs, and over 6 feet tall. there have been exceptions like St Louis and Palffy, but for the most part the new age of skilled forwards also have good size and strength. in today's NHL, you'll have a hell of a time making with with skill or size alone, in most cases you need both.

    i don't understand this argument. you can just as easily turn it around. to be a small skilled guy you have to beat the odds to be under the average and then beat the odds to have the skillset.

    the only player you listed in there that is actually small is St Louis, who is the exception rather than the norm.

    you are comparing apples to oranges here. i don't know why you would bring up basketball when it's a completely different frame and skillset needed. a completely different game.

    that's not at all what they say. it goes more along the lines of "he has great hands for a big guy". terms are used for players like Bertuzzi or Chara, who are brutes, not for your average player or even your above average sized players. you don't here someone saying Rick Nash has great hands for a big guy. you here them saying this for players like Coburn, who is freakishly large.
     
  24. ImpressedDAHagent

    ImpressedDAHagent Go sabres

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    great they make moves to change the game NOW. poor satan has been talking to no one.
     
  25. espo*

    espo* Guest

    While i see what they are ragging on you about i usually don't agree with how a lot of posters do it(labeling you as stupid and moronic and other below the belt things when they could just disagree with you in a better or light-hearted way)what you proposed certainly was'nt insulting or a personal jab at anyone so why they want to make someone new feel like hors*&it is beyond me but it seems to be the cool thing to do on these boards for one reason or another . It seems eveyone new has to take their lumps for some reason even if it's nasty for them to do it,the hf board hazing i call it,here's hoping they will someday think you are 'cool" so you can make your innocent points without being ostracized :)Not that there is a lot of value in it anyway really.




    I see what point you were trying to make while not necessarily agreeing with you.I think you have legitimate points in that more smaller skilled players may make the nhl with a concerted effort on controlling onstruction while not agreeing with you that smaller players are almost always more skilled.In todays game most of the big players are average to above average skill wise and the cream of the big guys are really skilled,those guys will be in the league with or without a crack down on obstruction.It still will be a more difficult struggle for the smaller skilled guy to win a job in any type game played in the nhl with or without obstruction and opening of the game but.........if the game is called as it should be and the way they say they are going to call it then their chances of winning more roster spots will go up i believe. You are not stupid!! Some of your points are slanted i think but i get the gist of what you were saying.
     
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