Live report from the Flyers practise.

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Ola

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Jester said:
if he doesn't dress up for the Flyers before the Olympics i'm not sure he can justify going to Italy to the Flyers.

You know, its just a little groin injury. Not even on the same groin as before. Its 8 days before Sweden play Russian in the olympics. A injury like that normally takes a week to come back from. Its already been 13 days since he injured it. It would be a pitty if he missed it because a little groin pull 21 days before the puck is dropped against Canada...
 

Jester

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Ola said:
You know, its just a little groin injury. Not even on the same groin as before. Its 8 days before Sweden play Russian in the olympics. A injury like that normally takes a week to come back from. Its already been 13 days since he injured it. It would be a pitty if he missed it because a little groin pull 21 days before the puck is dropped against Canada...

it would be more of a pity if he went over there and tore the thing apart and couldn't play for a long stretch after the Olympic break... it's CLEARLY not healed anything remotely close to all the way if he can't get through an entire practice, let alone a game.

and, there is no such thing as "a little groin pull" in hockey.
 

Ola

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Jester said:
it would be more of a pity if he went over there and tore the thing apart and couldn't play for a long stretch after the Olympic break... it's CLEARLY not healed anything remotely close to all the way if he can't get through an entire practice, let alone a game.

and, there is no such thing as "a little groin pull" in hockey.

Nah but its was only a "tear" to start with, its not a complete pull that takes a alteast 6 month. The groin should be back to normal in 7-14 days normally. Its been 13 days. It will have past 21 days untill sweden will play its first real game in the olympics. He himself said that if it was the PO's he wouldn't have missed a game. So it must be put in perspective.
 

Jester

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Ola said:
Nah but its was only a "tear" to start with, its not a complete pull that takes a alteast 6 month. The groin should be back to normal in 7-14 days normally. Its been 13 days. It will have past 21 days untill sweden will play its first real game in the olympics. He himself said that if it was the PO's he wouldn't have missed a game. So it must be put in perspective.

what perspective? that he's missing games and the flyers are in the middle of a tailspin?

he's hurt... he shouldn't go. THAT's the perspective in philly. if he wasn't hurt he'd be finishing practice and he'd be playing.
 

shawn_kemp*

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Philly is just an American city where people mostly care about the 76ers, Eagles and Phillies.

Sweden is a country where everyone cares about hockey.

So why not let Forsberg play for Sweden?
 

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shawn_kemp said:
Philly is just an American city where people mostly care about the 76ers, Eagles and Phillies.

Sweden is a country where everyone cares about hockey.

So why not let Forsberg play for Sweden?


I think you're underestimating Philly's enthusiasm for the Flyers. It's a great hockey town.
 

Jester

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Rabid Ranger said:
I think you're underestimating Philly's enthusiasm for the Flyers. It's a great hockey town.

no. 1 hockey city in America according to the Sporting News (obviouly St. Paul is the real one...). Flyers are the second most popular team in philly...
 

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shawn_kemp said:
Philly is just an American city where people mostly care about the 76ers, Eagles and Phillies.

Sweden is a country where everyone cares about hockey.

So why not let Forsberg play for Sweden?

There are over 5 million reasons why he should focus on the Flyers and not the Olympics.

Forsberg is my favourite player and I understand the impact he will have on the Swedish national team. But if he cannot compete for his club team because of health, he should not be going to the Olympics.

I am a Sens fan and a Canadian and should Redden or Heatley be in the same position as Foppa, I would want them to sit as well. Granted they are not the same calibre but, even if it were Lemieux, priority should be given to the club team.

One thing for sure is that this debate will never be settled. Over here the Stanley Cup is the prize, in Europe international tourneys are the more hallowed events. For Canada, any competition such as this is really a waste of time - if they win, yay, it's exciting and everyone is happy but they are supposed to win. Any other result is viewed as a disaster. It is a stupid mentality and it takes away from the end result. If Canada played Sweden for the Gold and lost in a thrilling game for the ages, it would not be remembered over here for the simple reason that they lost.
 

Dig Out Your Soul

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shawn_kemp said:
Philly is just an American city where people mostly care about the 76ers, Eagles and Phillies.

Sweden is a country where everyone cares about hockey.

So why not let Forsberg play for Sweden?

Nice generalizations.

If Forsberg is 100%, no groin injury in sight, of course he should be encouraged to play for Sweden.

But going to play over in Italy, while not 100%, is jeopardizing his health further, and his health is more important to the team that pays him over $5 million a year to bring them a Stanley Cup. Sweden doesn't care about his health, because Forsberg at 50% for two weeks is still better than most, but after that it doesn't matter whether he's out for months recovering, he doesn't have to play for Sweden again until the next international tournament where it's likely he'll have recovered. But when he has to return to Philly the next day after the Olympics and can't play, there's a whole world of trouble for everyone involved.

It seems to me that it's a very simple concept and I don't know why it keeps getting debated:

If you're 100%, you play for your country and hopefully return home in the same condition to resume making your millions.

If you're less than 100%, you stay home so you're ready to keep earning your millions in a couple of weeks.

It's only fair that you're healthy for the team that pays you. National pride is great, but money makes the world go 'round.
 

Ola

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trippyime said:
Nice generalizations.

If Forsberg is 100%, no groin injury in sight, of course he should be encouraged to play for Sweden.

But going to play over in Italy, while not 100%, is jeopardizing his health further, and his health is more important to the team that pays him over $5 million a year to bring them a Stanley Cup. Sweden doesn't care about his health, because Forsberg at 50% for two weeks is still better than most, but after that it doesn't matter whether he's out for months recovering, he doesn't have to play for Sweden again until the next international tournament where it's likely he'll have recovered. But when he has to return to Philly the next day after the Olympics and can't play, there's a whole world of trouble for everyone involved.

It seems to me that it's a very simple concept and I don't know why it keeps getting debated:

If you're 100%, you play for your country and hopefully return home in the same condition to resume making your millions.

If you're less than 100%, you stay home so you're ready to keep earning your millions in a couple of weeks.

It's only fair that you're healthy for the team that pays you. National pride is great, but money makes the world go 'round.

I agree. But somewhere you gotta draw the line. Thats why I said things must be put in perspective. Because I can almost gaurantee you that there isn't a single 100% healty hockeyplayer in Febuary. It seems like everyone in Philly have lost that perspective. If anyone with the slightest injury or need for 3 weeks rest would turn down the Olympics the NHL wouldn't participate in it, there wouldn't be any players left, thats a fact.

Forsberg is a "borderline case". First of all he will only play if this injury is 100%. Thats what all he speculation is about. There is no question that he could play a elimination game on the 20th something of Febuary. Gustaffson only wants him if he is healty to start the tournament.

But Forsberg could use 3 weeks of rest to get back in shape after missing some time, thats why Philly are putting pressure on him. Though I am 100% sure guys like Jagr for example is in the same postion, he would benefit tremendously from NYR perspective if he got 3 weeks rest now. Though you don't see NYR putting pressure on him, I can't say I am that suprised its Bobby Clarke and Philly who is involved in this, can you?
 

Dig Out Your Soul

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Ola said:
I agree. But somewhere you gotta draw the line. Thats why I said things must be put in perspective. Because I can almost gaurantee you that there isn't a single 100% healty hockeyplayer in Febuary. It seems like everyone in Philly have lost that perspective. If anyone with the slightest injury or need for 3 weeks rest would turn down the Olympics the NHL wouldn't participate in it, there wouldn't be any players left, thats a fact.

Forsberg is a "borderline case". First of all he will only play if this injury is 100%. Thats what all he speculation is about. There is no question that he could play a elimination game on the 20th something of Febuary. Gustaffson only wants him if he is healty to start the tournament.

But Forsberg could use 3 weeks of rest to get back in shape after missing some time, thats why Philly are putting pressure on him. Though I am 100% sure guys like Jagr for example is in the same postion, he would benefit tremendously from NYR perspective if he got 3 weeks rest now. Though you don't see NYR putting pressure on him, I can't say I am that suprised its Bobby Clarke and Philly who is involved in this, can you?

I don't think the particular city, owner, team, or GM has anything to do with it. I think it's pretty clear-cut that this is arguably the best player in the world we're talking about, and he's got a nagging injury that keeps him from playing which could get a lot worse if he doesn't rest it. Forsberg has said, and I agree with him, that if he can play, injured or not, he'll play (whether that be in the Olympics or in the NHL). The fact that he's not playing right now speaks volumes about how much this injury bothers him. I guess it's not really a question of whether he's 100%, it's a question of whether he can be of use to either team or not, and right now he feels he's not a use to either team because his groin prevents him.

Obviously, and I agree with you, EVERY player would benefit from the time off, but it comes down to who can still play without risking further injury, not whether they are totally healthy. You're right, most players have nagging injuries all season, but you'd probably never know unless they told you. It's the players with injuries that keep them out of the lineup that are the cause for debate. If Forsberg can't play for Philly, he shouldn't play for Sweden, partly because it raises questions about his allegiances and desire to win for which team and partly because it's a risk to his health.

And again, you're right, if every player with the slightest injury stayed home for 3 weeks did in fact stay home, the Olympics would quite frankly, suck. But there's a difference between a slight injury, let's say, a bruise or a strained wrist or something, and a an injury that prevents a guy from skating, like a groin strain/pull. If Forsberg can't physically skate for Philly, he can't skate for Sweden. It's that simple. That's why they want him to prove, before the Olympics, that he's healthy enough to play in a game or two (there's only 2 left).

But if Jagr has a bruise on his hand that kind of hurts when he handles the puck, but can obviously still get out there and compete, I'm not telling him to stay home. It's a case by case debate. One thing for one guy, a different thing for another guy. Injuries that affect the skating ability of a player need to be rested, especially the groin. A bum knee can be dealt with, Yzerman did it, but the groin is where the push comes from when you're skating, it can't be messed around with.

I totally understand that everyone in Sweden wants him to play. Hell, I want Niedermayer to play for Canada, but he did the right thing shutting her down and having the surgery because his health in relation to the team that pays him is more important than risking further injury by playing for a gold medal.
 

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trippyime said:
It seems to me that it's a very simple concept and I don't know why it keeps getting debated
An simpler concept for you.
An injured player needs to rest, be it with the an NHL team or a national team.
If a player can play for his NHL team he can and should play for his national team too.


Now, if we want to go deeper, the Flyers are going to make the playoffs no matter what, Sweden is going to play the Olympics, that are the most important competition in the world and that comes around once every four years. If any player would play through a slight injury, it should be at the Olympics and not in the regular season for a team that is not going to miss the playoffs without him.
It’s not like Forsberg coming back and needing to heal his groin for three or four games would really hurt Philly chances.. it’s in the playoffs they really need Forsberg to be ready.
 

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Jester said:
no. 1 hockey city in America according to the Sporting News (obviouly St. Paul is the real one...). Flyers are the second most popular team in philly...

And Hockey is actually the second most popular sport in Sweden after Soccer.
 

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Jester said:
he's hurt... he shouldn't go. THAT's the perspective in philly. if he wasn't hurt he'd be finishing practice and he'd be playing.
Since he is (and was) hurt he should rest instead of playing with the Flyers… if then he is able to recover in time to be fit for the Olympics, he should play at the Olympics.
 

C-J...*

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Lets just face it, Foppa is out.

Now lets just hope that BÃ…G gets his act together and picks Nylander.

According to the rules, he´s got to pick an NHL:er, otherwise I wouldnt have been surprised if he had picked a guy like Daniel Rudslätt instead :shakehead
 

C-J...*

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MojoJojo said:
And Hockey is actually the second most popular sport in Sweden after Soccer.


Perhaps its the second biggest sport if popularity means to watch it, if it means people actually playing hockey, I have a very hard time believing it´s the #2 sport here.

Despite being a very small nation, populationwise, we have a very broad skillbase when it comes to sports.
 

Jester

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Ola said:
I agree. But somewhere you gotta draw the line. Thats why I said things must be put in perspective. Because I can almost gaurantee you that there isn't a single 100% healty hockeyplayer in Febuary. It seems like everyone in Philly have lost that perspective. If anyone with the slightest injury or need for 3 weeks rest would turn down the Olympics the NHL wouldn't participate in it, there wouldn't be any players left, thats a fact.

Forsberg is a "borderline case". First of all he will only play if this injury is 100%. Thats what all he speculation is about. There is no question that he could play a elimination game on the 20th something of Febuary. Gustaffson only wants him if he is healty to start the tournament.

But Forsberg could use 3 weeks of rest to get back in shape after missing some time, thats why Philly are putting pressure on him. Though I am 100% sure guys like Jagr for example is in the same postion, he would benefit tremendously from NYR perspective if he got 3 weeks rest now. Though you don't see NYR putting pressure on him, I can't say I am that suprised its Bobby Clarke and Philly who is involved in this, can you?

here's a perspective...

Sweden has a gold medal more recently than we got a Cup over in Philly...

and the above bold is ridiculous. the ONLY way a groin pull gets healthy is through rest and rehab... the ONLY way. the olympic tournament is about as far from those two things as possible... we aren't talking about a bone bruise, or something that can be padded up to avoid further problems... it's a groin, which is arguably the most important muscle group to playing hockey and the most worked.

the man needs to rest to get this thing to 100%... if he doesn't do that then the chances of further complications goes up considerably.
 

Ola

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trippyime&jester- You both makes good point.

But we dissagrees on one issue, the injury. A slightly pulled groin, and this is what this is because a real pull takes something like 3-6 month, so in other words its a tear on the groin, and that is not a big deal. Its a everyday injury that 95% of the time is fixed in a few days.

Its serious when its something else that causes a tear, then its serious because that must be fixed or the problem will come back. Though Forsbergs problems isn't caused by his stomach muscles, or his back or legs - its just his groin.

You can't play well with a tear on the groin, its impossible to finnish the stride proporly. And thats why Forsberg isn't playing.

You guys and Philly makes it sound like Forsberg it would be a great risk for Forsberg even to play in the Olympics if the groin heals. And that is just not the case. It aint more risky then it was when he come back from his last injury, after 10 days, and to my knowledge that groin is still healty. I've had problems with my groins my entire life before I stopped playing hockey at the age of 23. Had Forsberg suffered the same kind of injury the first game of the games he wouldn't have been able to play, no in a normal case it just shouldn't be any problems...
 

Jester

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Ola said:
trippyime&jester- You both makes good point.

But we dissagrees on one issue, the injury. A slightly pulled groin, and this is what this is because a real pull takes something like 3-6 month, so in other words its a tear on the groin, and that is not a big deal. Its a everyday injury that 95% of the time is fixed in a few days.

Its serious when its something else that causes a tear, then its serious because that must be fixed or the problem will come back. Though Forsbergs problems isn't caused by his stomach muscles, or his back or legs - its just his groin.

You can't play well with a tear on the groin, its impossible to finnish the stride proporly. And thats why Forsberg isn't playing.

You guys and Philly makes it sound like Forsberg it would be a great risk for Forsberg even to play in the Olympics if the groin heals. And that is just not the case. It aint more risky then it was when he come back from his last injury, after 10 days, and to my knowledge that groin is still healty. I've had problems with my groins my entire life before I stopped playing hockey at the age of 23. Had Forsberg suffered the same kind of injury the first game of the games he wouldn't have been able to play, no in a normal case it just shouldn't be any problems...

okay... then why hasn't he finished an entire practice? why haven't i seen him in uniform in 6 games?

and try to throw away groin injuries as a simple matter all they want. it's an injury that friggin lingers...
 

Ola

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Jester said:
okay... then why hasn't he finished an entire practice? why haven't i seen him in uniform in 6 games?

and try to throw away groin injuries as a simple matter all they want. it's an injury that friggin lingers...

Basically because the little threads in the muscle haven't grown together yet. It still hurts. Playing now wouldn't be good and could cause permanent danger. But once its healty thats not the case. He had a worse injury on his left groin that took 10 days to recover. He played after 10 days and that groin is still healty. Now its been 14 days with this groin, and its 7 days still untill Sweden plays its first big game, its will have passed 27 days before Sweden plays its first important game, the QF, in the tournament. Do you get my point?

If he is healty and can skate a full practise in 7 days Sweden can use him sparely in the meaningless opening round so he gets back in shape and he'll have another 7 days before the QF's. In the end it will have passed a total of 27 days since he suffered his minor injury, that normally takes 7-10 days, untill he is asked to really deliver.
 
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