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It's pretty even...Guerin scored about 30 goals for edmonton for a couple of seasons and Arnott centered New Jersey's dominant A-line.
per TSN.ca
New Jersey later traded Arnott to Dallas in a package that included Nieuwendyk & Langenbrunner.
Edmonton later traded Guerin to Boston in a package that included Carter & Hemsky.
I'd say that New Jersey won that deal as they won a Cup with Arnott, and then later won a Cup with Nieuwendyk & Langenbrunner (compensation for Arnott via trade).
Edmonton with Guerin didn't end up getting much in return, although it worked out well enough for them as Carter was a contributor for a few seasons and Hemsky looks like a nice player.
Trading Guerin improved New Jersey, trading Arnott did not improve Edmonton.
Converse said:
True. Arnott did not want to be in EDM, there was too much pressure on him, and he was the 2nd C behind Weight.
I still think Arnott should have stayed with the Devils, hes not the same in Dallas behind Modano. Arnott won a cup with NJ as well as Niewendyk, so I dont think trading him to Dallas was a vital move. I think it was too dump salary.
Trottier
Very Random
The ULTIMATE purpose of ANY trade is to acquire pieces that will HELP YOUR FRANCHISE WIN THE STANLEY CUP.
PERIOD.
It is NOT to acquire the player that scores the most points, or wins the most individual trophies, etc.
Since we are talking about value in NHL terms and not fantasy league terms, that is how a deal should always be judged. To view the plight of the two players outside the context of their respective teams is misguided.
Since NJD acquired Arnott (and subsequently traded him for other Cup pieces in Nieuwendyk and Langerbrunner), how many Stanely Cup Finals have they reached? (Three)
How many Cups have they won during that time period? (Two)
There's the clear answer to the original question posed in this thread.
PERIOD.
It is NOT to acquire the player that scores the most points, or wins the most individual trophies, etc.
Since we are talking about value in NHL terms and not fantasy league terms, that is how a deal should always be judged. To view the plight of the two players outside the context of their respective teams is misguided.
Since NJD acquired Arnott (and subsequently traded him for other Cup pieces in Nieuwendyk and Langerbrunner), how many Stanely Cup Finals have they reached? (Three)
How many Cups have they won during that time period? (Two)
There's the clear answer to the original question posed in this thread.
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Trottier said:
GOOD POINTS
But dont forget EDM is never expected to win it all. They arent even an elite, or as experienced team as NJ and never will.
Brodeur vs Salo/Cujo
Stevens vs Smith
You just cant compare two teams like this when it comes to cups.
to clarify the EDM transactions:
The deals were actually:
To BOS: Guerin
To EDM: Carter, 2nd rounder, option to swap first round picks (which EDM exercised to move up to 13 in 2001, from 19, where they drafted Hemsky (at 19 BOS selected Morrisonn)
AND
To NYR: Carter, Pisa
To EDM: Dvorak, Cross
It was also rumored that NYR paid Dvorak's salary the next year (or a portion of it), and the rest of Dvorak and Cross's salaries the year they were traded (that was a deadline deal). Never saw that verified, I think it was Brooks that hinted at this, but I'm not positive on that.
The deals were actually:
To BOS: Guerin
To EDM: Carter, 2nd rounder, option to swap first round picks (which EDM exercised to move up to 13 in 2001, from 19, where they drafted Hemsky (at 19 BOS selected Morrisonn)
AND
To NYR: Carter, Pisa
To EDM: Dvorak, Cross
It was also rumored that NYR paid Dvorak's salary the next year (or a portion of it), and the rest of Dvorak and Cross's salaries the year they were traded (that was a deadline deal). Never saw that verified, I think it was Brooks that hinted at this, but I'm not positive on that.
RandV
It's a wolf v2.0
PapaBear said:
I agree, it's nice and all to be able to say a team won a deal because they went on to win the cup, but it just doesn't make sense in this regard, NJ and EDM are apples and oranges. I'd say it more applies when a team would otherwise lose a deal, like Dallas trading Iginla to Calgary for Nieuwendyk. Calgary was the obvious winner there, but you can't say Dallas lost because Nieuwendyk was a big part of them winning the cup.
RandV said:
Ya, I dont think The stars regret that trade one single bit. Without Niewy, they wouldnt have won the cup.
I think the Devils would have won the Cup with or without Arnott and his "compensation" after his trade to Dallas.
That didn't change a thing. The core of the team was always the same. Elias, Stevens, Brodeur.
That didn't change a thing. The core of the team was always the same. Elias, Stevens, Brodeur.
wilka91 said:
Yes, but that 1st line of Elias-Arnott-Sykora was a huge part of the 99-00 Devils, and easily was crucial to that cup win.
Trottier
Very Random
PapaBear said:
True. However, when a team like NJ trades Guerin for Arnott, it is made with the objective of winning the Cup squarely in mind. Using that measure, the trade was a smashing success for them.
BTW, that deal was made, in part as I recall, because Guerin was having contract issues with NJD. So, Lou was not exactly trading from a standpoint of strength. Yet his team still came out smelling like a rose.
RandV said:
On what planet was Calgary the "obvious winner" in that deal?
Dallas made that deal specificially to find the veteran missing piece down the middle needed to win the Cup. An they did! They knowingly gave up long-term talent for the potential of nearer-term gain. Mission accomplished.
(Likewise, Calgary benefitted bigtime by virtue of acquiring a young elite talent who has produced and will continue to produce for years. But that misses the point.)
Teams play the game to win the Cup, not to see who collects the most/better/younger talent. Put another way: Collecting talent is a means to an end, not the end itself. Curiously, that basic point is missed by a few fans here.
Bet here is that Dallas wouldn't want a re-do on the deal and give back the '99 Cup. Would you if you were in their shoes?
(And, no, the Stars would not have won a Cup at that time with a young, inexperienced Iginla.)
Nieuwendyk for Iginla was a GREAT deal for BOTH teams.
wilka91 said:
Obviously missed the 2000-03 NHL seasons.
Jason Arnott was the #1 center on NJD Cup Finalists in '00 and '01. Nieuwendyk and Langenbrunner were key components of the '03 Cup team.
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