Post-Game Talk: Let's begin...: Dec. 12, 2017: TOR 2 at PHI 4

[Striiker]

Manning has some of the best metrics of our defensemen, he may not look pretty, but he's been effective.
The only alternative to Hagg has been Manning or Sanheim, and Sanheim has been, uh, erratic?
The only alternative to Filppula, is Patrick? And Laughton's TOI has gradually increased (nor is he ready for 2C duties).

You guys do this every year, come up with some fantastic "alternative" lineup which turn out to be no better.
You can move the pieces around, but they're still the same pieces.
And no, someone like Konecny isn't being held down, check his CorsiRel, his xGFrel, etc.
He's shooting as much as last year, just not scoring as much.

You can wish upon a star . . . .

Manning is horrible. If any metrics say otherwise then those are either useless stats or you're ignoring context.

Hagg is horrible. I'd bet those same metrics you think have value for Manning would probably not make Hagg look so good. Interesting you don't mention them for him. Sanheim and Gudas are both far more deserving of a bump in icetime than Hagg.

Filppula is horrible. If Laughton isn't ready for 2C duties then neither is Filppula. At the very least, their icetime should not have a 4 minute gap and Filppula should NEVER be 00:02 from most TOI for forwards in any game, ever.

Also, this "Laughton's TOI has gradually increased" thing you keep saying is a flat out lie.

He's played 30 games.
First 10 games - 13:23 TOI/GP
Next 10 games - 12:47 TOI/GP
Most recent 10 games - 11:35 TOI/GP

 

[sa cyred]

And where exactly have you found that to be the case? We are all fans and we can't agree on anything. You hire supposed experts and hope they perform well at a difficult job that takes time. Most get fired only to be replaced by someone of similar skill. There are only a couple of really good experienced coaches and gms and they rarely are available and far from perfect.

I think you are misunderstanding what I said. I was talking to the one guy in this thread that has continually defended Hak and used the “they are the ones getting paid” line.

 

[deadhead]

Manning and Hagg are not horrible. We've seen horrible.
We have Provorov and Ghost at LHD, Gudas at RHD, and throw the rest into a pile, basically 3rd pair talents.
But Gudas has been a head case since the beginning of the season, and then the suspension.

Filppula is not horrible, he's merely a solid 3C asked to be a 2C which he can no longer pull off.
Patrick is horrible, but we're stuck with him b/c we can't hide him in the AHL for a season.
Wrong about Laughton, didn't check the numbers but felt he was playing a bigger role lately. But he's no 2C either.

Weise and Lehtera are horrible, the former is a disappointment (he's paid to be a 20 point winger, not a liability), the latter is just a salary.

Leier, Weal, Simmonds are all below average ES right now, Leier does one thing well and that is stick check. And that's why the bottom 9 is so erratic, lack of talent. Weal and Simmonds may be dinged, but neither is an asset right now.

You can jumble them and put together some makeshift lines, weaken the first line with Simmonds, strengthen the second line with Voracek, patch a third line with Laughton and Konecny, throw whatever's left on the 4th line. Raffl is solid in the top 9, but you still have to play Weal and Filppula, and Weise and Leier on the 4th line.

People who think that some coach is gonna spray holy water in the locker room and transform this talent are crazy. Patrick will turn it around when his body allows him to turn it around, not because of his linemates or some new scheme. Sanheim when he sees the light and learns to focus and reduce the mindfarts. Konecny is the only one who may be helped by the right role, but that seems to be on a quasi-checking line where he can use his best attribute, his skating, to full effect. Weal and Simmonds may get healthy, or they may be going the Read route (from starter to scrub in two years).

What'll transform this talent, other than some young players growing up, will be more talent.
Add three or four legitimate wings and the lines will look much better.
Add Morin and Myers and the defense will eventually look better (or trade for a RHD).

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Manning and Filp do not play the fewest minutes.

Wait, why do I even bother.

very good question

 

[Striiker]

It blows my mind that you can write that Hagg and Manning aren't terrible and then go on to complain about Sanheim, all in the same post.

 

[Rebels57]

It blows my mind that you can write that Hagg and Manning aren't terrible and then go on to complain about Sanheim, all in the same post.

It blows my mind that you still indulge him

 

[Striiker]

It blows my mind that you still indulge him

I have a 6 year old half black lab, half vizsla who is so quiet, calm, and well behaved 99% of the time. You can mess with her as much as you want and she just tolerates it.

However, if you put an ice cube in her water bowl, she will bark at it until you either take it out or it melts. It's not doing any harm or directly affecting her in any way, but it still drives her crazy for some mysterious reason.

This board is my water bowl and those posts are ice cubes.

 

[deadhead]

It blows my mind that you can write that Hagg and Manning aren't terrible and then go on to complain about Sanheim, all in the same post.

Because I don't expect more than 3rd line play from Hagg and Manning, and I expect Hextall to move Manning for a mid-round pick.

Sanheim I hold to a higher standard, because if he can fix the mindfarts he's a top 4 D-man with the potential to be elite down the road.

Striiker, sit! Now, let me find you a treat.

 

[Rebels57]

When has Laughton ever been asked to be a big contributor? Early on in his rookie season 2 years ago? He fell out of favor quickly and Bellemare became the de facto 3C. I'm not sure why 2 years ago matters in terms of his career arc. He's a different player now and has been successful so far 30 games into the year. Hagg was a disaster 2 years ago and now they use him as a top 4. Right now Patrick is a step down from Laughton, good as he will be one day. I'm not sure why Patrick has earned it but Laughton hasn't.



Hextall fell in love with him first and has coveted him for years. Said so. I think Hakstol was just receptive to that suggestion.

If he gets a much better offer (at age 34), he'll leave. But he wanted to be here. Maybe Hextall would be fine with a 2 year deal and no team out there really would top that. It would not surprise me for them to not believe Patrick is ready to be 2C next year. I'm not sure he is either, or that they should be banking on it at least. Too bad we don't have a center at wing right now we could use.

I honestly dont even know what we are debating about anymore. Laughton should be playing more and Filppula less. Just not sure id want Laughton as our 2C.

 

[Striiker]

Because I don't expect more than 3rd line play from Hagg and Manning, and I expect Hextall to move Manning for a mid-round pick.

Sanheim I hold to a higher standard, because if he can fix the mindfarts he's a top 4 D-man with the potential to be elite down the road.

Striiker, sit! Now, let me find you a treat.

Careful, I'm not house-trained.