Post-Game Talk: Let's begin...: Dec. 12, 2017: TOR 2 at PHI 4

MacDonald4MVP

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May 7, 2016
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Hell, ****ing Hyman is on the first line with Matthews for most of the year and the guy hasn't done dick this year.
Not true. He is The best forechecker in the league with selke level defense who creates space for matthews, or so I was told on main boards.
 
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Amorgus

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Sep 22, 2017
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Leaf fans aren't happy.

DQzYmbEXkAI3nZb.jpg
I totally felt like I was peeking at a parallel universe reading that post game thread. We know your pain, fellas. At least your coach can scare the refs when needed.
 

Rebels57

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Most underrated player this season is Elliot. He isn't as bad as some of the fans around the NHL say he is. He has that soft goal he lets in but overall he's solid.

13 of his 16 starts have been quality starts and his SV% is .912

Works for me.
 
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Rebels57

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Watched the replay. Weal did well considering and I would like to see Weal-Laughton-TK. Patrick is doing literally nothing now without the flashes of potential. Filppula gave up two shots that could have been scoring changes and then mis-passed from the redline to Simmonds with the empty net in front of him. :huh:

Patrick was flashing potential early on in his limited ice time but now that is buried in the lineup his confidence is clearly shaken. This is a major test for his mental makeup. Let's see if he can push through this and start to earn more ice time again.
 

MacDonald4MVP

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Patrick was flashing potential early on in his limited ice time but now that is buried in the lineup his confidence is clearly shaken. This is a major test for his mental makeup. Let's see if he can push through this and start to earn more ice time again.
Do you think hak has talked to him? do we even want it to happen?
 

Rebels57

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Do you think hak has talked to him? do we even want it to happen?

I've never gotten any indication that Hakstol communicates with young players at all, so no I don't think so..and no we probably don't want him to lol.
 

FlyTimmo

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Jul 10, 2013
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Not true. He is The best forechecker in the league with selke level defense who creates space for matthews, or so I was told on main boards.

Really? I have heard almost nothing but them shitting on Hyman. They use it as an excuse for Matthews being not as good as McDavid, because "linemates".
 

deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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Babcock can farm the field next to Hakstol, they can grow beets together.
Just a pair of idiot coaches, because I believe fans.
 

Magua

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It's pretty incredible how much better Laughton is than he was in 15-16.

Yep. I certainly doubted his center ability in the NHL, even if I thought he was already a decent depth scoring NHL winger who they were miscasting.

But on a weak scoring team with weak scoring players 5v5, he's putting up points like a 3rd liner (1.4 p/60) without much winger help, killing it in the underlying numbers (even without Raffl he's been solid at +2% relative), and his usage is not skewed offensively. I think he's also been substantially better puck protecting and playing the cycle game, which was not a strength his last full season. And he looks like a center. D-zone turnovers, which he struggled with, seem to have dissipated, and I have no worry when he's out there. He's even #2 in both individual HDCF/60 and rebounds/60, #4 in shots/60. He's doing actual stuff while being clean in his own end.

Considering the arc of Laughton's career, I am actually okay with them not putting too much on his plate at this point in the season. Let his confidence continue to slowly grow and he will eventually force them to give him more minutes. By next year, we could be looking at Couturier-Patrick-Laughton as the indisputable 1-2-3 down the middle.

A lot of people want Patrick to get a middle 6 role though -- or 2C -- even though he's only 19 and struggling mightily. I'd rather the 23 year old with 140 NHL games get the minor boost right now. I think it's Patrick who doesn't need a lot on his plate right now. Laughton has earned more grub. A few more minutes 5v5, no Leier (who I think is more a replacement level player), forming a real 3rd line.......I'd at least try it given the depth scoring issues. What's the harm? They've already lowered his PK time lately. Then again I'd also have tested him in the slot on PP2. But the team has an issue with thinking he's more than a classic 4C, despite showing obvious strengths in certain areas. They pigeonhole him. I think he's earned more trust than that.

And you left off Filppula in your center depth chart for next year. Despite all season as 2C with top 6 linemates, he's scoring the worst out of all 4 centers 5v5 (like a 4th liner), getting cratered by every number.......and still getting force fed minutes and given the utmost trust. Gotta love the Flip!
 

Rebels57

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Yep. I certainly doubted his center ability in the NHL, even if I thought he was already a decent depth scoring NHL winger who they were miscasting.

But on a weak scoring team with weak scoring players 5v5, he's putting up points like a 3rd liner (1.4 p/60) without much winger help, killing it in the underlying numbers (even without Raffl he's been solid at +2% relative), and his usage is not skewed offensively. I think he's also been substantially better puck protecting and playing the cycle game, which was not a strength his last full season. And he looks like a center. D-zone turnovers, which he struggled with, seem to have dissipated, and I have no worry when he's out there. He's even #2 in both individual HDCF/60 and rebounds/60, #4 in shots/60. He's doing actual stuff while being clean in his own end.



A lot of people want Patrick to get a middle 6 role though -- or 2C -- even though he's only 19 and struggling mightily. I'd rather the 23 year old with 140 NHL games get the minor boost right now. I think it's Patrick who doesn't need a lot on his plate right now. Laughton has earned more grub. A few more minutes 5v5, no Leier (who I think is more a replacement level player), forming a real 3rd line.......I'd at least try it given the depth scoring issues. What's the harm? They've already lowered his PK time lately. Then again I'd also have tested him in the slot on PP2. But the team has an issue with thinking he's more than a classic 4C, despite showing obvious strengths in certain areas. They pigeonhole him. I think he's earned more trust than that.

And you left off Filppula in your center depth chart for next year. Despite all season as 2C with top 6 linemates, he's scoring the worst out of all 4 centers 5v5 (like a 4th liner), getting cratered by every number.......and still getting force fed minutes and given the utmost trust. Gotta love the Flip!

I did mention the arc of Laughtons career. In the past when being asked to be a big contributor he has faltered. I want to see him put that behind him for good by just continuing in this upwards trajectory.

As for Flip...Hextall has let players walk that Hak has fallen in love with before. Plus..as a UFA he might get a better offer elsewhere..and do they really want to continue to block out Patrick??

We will know more by the 3/4 mark of the season im sure.
 

deadhead

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I doubt Hakstol loves Filppula, but Filppula is one of only 7 forwards with positive xGF% and xGFrel%.
So he's not a disaster out there, unlike Patrick.
And he's our second best FO center, and that does matter in certain situations.

I don't think any coach would trust Laughton after 30 games, given his previous track record, rather, they'd do what the Flyers are doing, gradually increase his responsibilities.

If the Flyer had a true 2C, Filppula would get 15 minutes a night instead of his average of 17.

Next year, unless they fail to improve the second half, Patrick should be the 2C, and Laughton/Vorobyev/MV filling the two other center spots. I doubt Filppula returns.
 

Magua

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I did mention the arc of Laughtons career. In the past when being asked to be a big contributor he has faltered. I want to see him put that behind him for good by just continuing in this upwards trajectory.

When has Laughton ever been asked to be a big contributor? Early on in his rookie season 2 years ago? He fell out of favor quickly and Bellemare became the de facto 3C. I'm not sure why 2 years ago matters in terms of his career arc. He's a different player now and has been successful so far 30 games into the year. Hagg was a disaster 2 years ago and now they use him as a top 4. Right now Patrick is a step down from Laughton, good as he will be one day. I'm not sure why Patrick has earned it but Laughton hasn't.

As for Flip...Hextall has let players walk that Hak has fallen in love with before. Plus..as a UFA he might get a better offer elsewhere..and do they really want to continue to block out Patrick??

Hextall fell in love with him first and has coveted him for years. Said so. I think Hakstol was just receptive to that suggestion.

If he gets a much better offer (at age 34), he'll leave. But he wanted to be here. Maybe Hextall would be fine with a 2 year deal and no team out there really would top that. It would not surprise me for them to not believe Patrick is ready to be 2C next year. I'm not sure he is either, or that they should be banking on it at least. Too bad we don't have a center at wing right now we could use.
 
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deadhead

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Well, that's the frustration right now.

Solid players in the AHL who may only be months from being promoted, but right now they're all playing well but no one is jumping out and screaming "I'm ready" by their play on the ice. Steady improvement by a number of players, so this may change by February.

Some great prospects in college, juniors and the SHL but even the most advanced are 1-3 years away from the NHL roster.

A potential franchise goalie who may be ready in two years.

So close but so far away!

Question - would you rather experience a frustrating season this year, with a team that's a couple players away, or have Hextall trade some assets for a short-term fix this season?
 

deadhead

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I don't think you can get much more out of this team with any combination of the current players at their current level of play.
Either some players step up or you'll need to bring in other players and shift roles and PT.
The worst players (Weise, Patrick, Leier) play the fewest minutes.
 
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freakydallas13

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Jan 30, 2007
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I don't think you can get much more out of this team with any combination of the current players at their current level of play.
Either some players step up or you'll need to bring in other players and shift roles and PT.
The worst players (Weise, Patrick, Leier) play the fewest minutes.
Manning and Filp do not play the fewest minutes.

Wait, why do I even bother.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
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I don't think you can get much more out of this team with any combination of the current players at their current level of play.
Either some players step up or you'll need to bring in other players and shift roles and PT.
The worst players (Weise, Patrick, Leier) play the fewest minutes.

giphy.gif


Manning 19:05 TOI/GP
Hagg 19:21 TOI/GP
MacDonald 20:46 TOI/GP
Filppula 17:16 TOI/GP
 

NYCFlyer

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Nov 23, 2002
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Meh. As much as saying believing what fans think is stupid, believing what management does is always right is equally as stupid.
And where exactly have you found that to be the case? We are all fans and we can't agree on anything. You hire supposed experts and hope they perform well at a difficult job that takes time. Most get fired only to be replaced by someone of similar skill. There are only a couple of really good experienced coaches and gms and they rarely are available and far from perfect.
 

deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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Manning has some of the best metrics of our defensemen, he may not look pretty, but he's been effective.
The only alternative to Hagg has been Manning or Sanheim, and Sanheim has been, uh, erratic?
The only alternative to Filppula, is Patrick? And Laughton's TOI has gradually increased (nor is he ready for 2C duties).

You guys do this every year, come up with some fantastic "alternative" lineup which turn out to be no better.
You can move the pieces around, but they're still the same pieces.
And no, someone like Konecny isn't being held down, check his CorsiRel, his xGFrel, etc.
He's shooting as much as last year, just not scoring as much.

You can wish upon a star . . . .
 

NYCFlyer

Registered User
Nov 23, 2002
1,364
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NYC
giphy.gif


Manning 19:05 TOI/GP
Hagg 19:21 TOI/GP
MacDonald 20:46 TOI/GP
Filppula 17:16 TOI/GP
You know what he was getting at. Comparing dmen toi to forwards? Trying to embarrass another poster only makes you look bad. Real bad
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,442
155,161
Pennsylvania
You know what he was getting at. Comparing dmen toi to forwards? Trying to embarrass another poster only makes you look bad. Real bad
I wasn't comparing defensemen to forwards. I was listing the players who prove his point wrong. Each of them play a lot and are worse than others who play less (who were not listed).

Trying to correct another poster, when you don't even know what he was saying, only makes you look bad. Real bad.
 

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