Let the Post Mortem begin before the body is cold.....

FirstRowUpperDeck

Registered User
May 20, 2014
5,385
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Arlington, TX
Looking for ideas to improve Stars behind the basics (injuries, etc.) of what went wrong. Here are my two cents:

As the season went on, Stars PP slipped from a puck moving team to one that stands around, as highlighted by the nice looking power plays of BOS and PIT in late games. Probably not coincidentally, their numbers started slipping. And it seems like every year for the last ten, the same thing has happened under different coaches, no? Why is it they forget to move the puck on the PP?

Clearing the zone...okay, that is a basic, but see below.

Slow to do something with the puck (no rule says you have to read the label before shooting it or passing it, is there?) Benn scored last night by shooting it in one motion. Most of the missed ops were them taking too long to decide to shoot. They have been a tick slow for a good while now, and shooting lanes close, goalies get in position. Seguin said something about Hitch preaching puck possession and thinking before passing, and wondering if that is the root cause of the indecision? Combine no movement on the PP with slow to shoot, and you can see why we are ineffective. Same indecision is leading to problems clearing the puck.

Some talk about bad luck late in periods, but have seen this show before. In the third period, good teams turn it on, Stars can't match. Have seen this in the NHL over the 25 years the Stars have been here. No third gear on this team. Sure, they play with emotion early, but get one goal (see PP above) rather than the 2-3 they probably deserved last night. It is just the sign of a bad team.

Ditto on "doing a lot of good things, unraveled by one bad play". This was a problem last year, when they were said to be mentally fragile, but it sure lurked close to the surface again this year. Sign of a bad, or poorly coached team. If this was football, there would be a holding penalty every time they started moving the ball. In the NHL, 59 minutes of hard play doesn't cut it. If it isn't Kari, its the D (Patyrn letting Granlund skate right by last night, or any number of FW not burying what should have been 90% scoring chances.

The last one might be the scariest of all. Has the long time losing culture just cemented itself in the Stars? Yes, some optimism in Ruff and Nill's first season, soon wiped out. And, some optimism in Hitch's first season, wiped out even sooner.

Just random, frustrating thoughts. Feel free to pile on...either me or the Stars.
 
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jballa95

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Aug 18, 2013
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In Ruff's system there was little to no system in place, so it was infuriating when the Stars could not break out of their zone because they did not have a system to fall back on to get the puck out of the zone and up the ice. It let the games be much more open, but it also allowed a plethora of 3 on 2s, 2 on 1s, and breakaways against. They decided to fix this problem by bringing in Hitch with his "system". So Hitch installed his system and limited the creativity on the ice extremely, essentially forcing everyone on the team to rely on the system. So now the Stars have a system to fall back on, but now the team ONLY uses Hitch's system to get the puck out of the zone, once teams started realizing the repetitive nature of Hitch's system with the Stars, they countered it. So when the Stars started losing, even when they clearly outworked the other team, Hitch and the team kept on repeating "We have to continue with the system" or etc, never making any major changes to their linear system causing the team to lose more and more and more. The coaches simply have been stubborn, they did not think that their system was the problem, and only blamed that the team was getting unlucky. So once the creativity was eliminated from the Stars' game, it removed any chance for secondary scoring. And possibly connected to the draft issues the Stars have had in the last half decade or so, the players with limited offensive ability could not capitalize on the few chances that Hitch's system allowed them to have. Hitch also decided that big bodies and intimidation are more important than offensive creativeness, causing players like Honka, Dickinson, etc to get low icetime or none at all.

I am not or never really was a full believer that Honka will turn into an excellent defender, but the way Hitch and the coaching staff handled his situation is absolutely ridiculous. If he had a good puck-possessing game but made one minor mistake, they would say that they are going to sit him so he could watch the game from above and learn from his mistakes. If Honka played a very safe but dull game with no mistakes, they would sit him saying that he has to play with more offensive and puck-carrying abilities... So what do they want from the kid? They should have been exactly clear what they wanted from him, because now he's guessing what type of a game they want from him, which is essentially ruining him.

The stubbornness also showed on the defensive pairs, Hamhuis and Pateryn were a good pair for a while but it became clear that by the third quarter of the season, they were no where up to the same energy and awareness to what they were at the beginning (likely due to fatigue, especially Pateryn who's never played a high minute shutdown role in the NHL). So what does Hitch and the coaching staff do? They continue to send the pair our over and over and over, hoping that randomly they would switch back to what they were at the beginning of the season. Absolutely poor player management. I seriously hope Hitch and the coaching staff is not back next season, so that maybe Honka can actually develop if he has not been totally f*cked by now, and so Heiskanen can have a clear plan of how to play in the NHL without getting this Jeckyll and Hyde type sh*t from the coaching staff.

You could slowly see this epic collapse slowly build throughout the season, when it happened I was not surprised in the least. Well that is my rant about the coaching, maybe I'll do one about the management and scouting later.
 

badboy1994

Registered User
Apr 11, 2016
800
397
There is no improvement with this team.

Most of the Stars players had career years in scoring this year. We are filled with a bunch of third line players and one elite line.

No youth/prospects coming and no trade pieces. We are screwed


We are the New York rangers of the west
 

BfantZ

Registered User
Jun 22, 2017
2,635
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all of the problems you mentioned are due to having lost there confidence . They lost there beileif in hitch’s system as well as bishop who was playing well and have them a lot more confidence than lehtonen .
 

Benneguin

Original Recipe
May 26, 2015
1,604
474
Remove Lites and Nill and find someone who is better at evaluating talent (players, coaches, scouts, GMs, etc). Until that changes nothing else will.
 

FirstRowUpperDeck

Registered User
May 20, 2014
5,385
1,409
Arlington, TX
I tend to believe the Hitchcock D first mentality is one where only the supremely talented can remain an offensive force. Benn has been about the same, JK, TS and AR have improved offensively while playing better D. Janmark, too. Everyone else is probably a natural fall off as a result of changing from Ruff to Hitch.

My wife noticed it this year, when a D starts backing off at the point when it looked like they might have been able to get the puck, as in years before. I remembered the frustration from watching the Stars start backing up at the first chance. I would say this year, aggressive fore checking was typical early, and largely absent now, so add that to my list of stuff that has held them back.

In other words, dump and chase only works if you actually chase, and creating offense from defense only works when you play aggressive D, which they seem to have fallen off on both counts.

As to Troy's point about positioning Seguin, very astute, and another example of how the little details are being forgotten, but are so important. Hitch always stresses the "details of the game" but it does not good if no one pays attention. Hitch's fault, or players thinking they know better, and once over the boards, Hitch can't control them?

Either way, last year they got away from systematically playing Ruff's system and went all willy nilly. This year, they are not playing Hitch's system as much any more. In other words, what the heck good is a system if no one really plays it?
 

Benneguin

Original Recipe
May 26, 2015
1,604
474
You seem to assume because the results are bad they must not be playing the system. If they weren’t playing the system Hitch would be fuming and said players wouldn’t be playing. If it is true that they arent playing the system and its team wide then that means Hitch lost the team, which is a reflection on him and Nill for allowing it to continue.
 

Duffeldof

Registered User
Jun 28, 2014
223
14
I haven't been able to watch so much full games later in the season but one thing I've noticed "out of ice" is Hitchcocks interviews. After watching full game or condensed game I check what Twitter has to say about the game. I noticed that Hitchcock said manytimes "we need more from our top guys" or "we need to guys step up".

So is the problem the top horses or other lines? Why cannot Hitch decide?

I think that attitude reflects Hitchcocks stubborned towards his system. He sees problems anywhere else than in his system and that is example of bad leadership.
 

AveryStar4Eva

Registered User
Aug 28, 2014
7,453
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The team need to get a new head coach with a modern system. Ruff and Hitch had polar opposite coaching styles, but the same shortcomings. Hitch is all defence, Ruff is all offense. Hitch has to much structure that prevents creativity, Ruff was run and gun chaos. Get a coach with good structure, who plays players to their strengths, and also gets the most out of every player.

Add one/two offensive wingers. As much as I'd love to dump one of Hanzal or Spezza I think we're stuck with them one more year. Adding a guy who can score like Grabner, Nash, Neal, or JVR would take some of the load off the first line. Think we get back Nuke as well which should be a massive help.

1) Benn - Seguin - Nuke
2) Janmark - Faksa - Radulov
3) Dickinson - Spezza - UFA
4) Shore - Hanzal - Pitlick

1) Lindell - Klingberg
2) Methot - Honka
3) Heiskanen - Johns

Play the first line ~19 minutes all situations, second line -16 minutes all situations, third line ~13 minutes mostly offensive zone, and fourth line ~12 minutes mostly defensive zone.
 
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FirstRowUpperDeck

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May 20, 2014
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You seem to assume because the results are bad they must not be playing the system. If they weren’t playing the system Hitch would be fuming and said players wouldn’t be playing. If it is true that they arent playing the system and its team wide then that means Hitch lost the team, which is a reflection on him and Nill for allowing it to continue.

I only assume what I see with my eyes. Neither the aggressive fore check or the crisp movement on the power play is as obvious as it was earlier in the year. It also seems to me (harder to see with eyes) that the mental fragility crept back, which may be personnel still around from last year more than the coach.
 

badboy1994

Registered User
Apr 11, 2016
800
397
The team need to get a new head coach with a modern system. Ruff and Hitch had polar opposite coaching styles, but the same shortcomings. Hitch is all defence, Ruff is all offense. Hitch has to much structure that prevents creativity, Ruff was run and gun chaos. Get a coach with good structure, who plays players to their strengths, and also gets the most out of every player.

Add one/two offensive wingers. As much as I'd love to dump one of Hanzal or Spezza I think we're stuck with them one more year. Adding a guy who can score like Grabner, Nash, Neal, or JVR would take some of the load off the first line. Think we get back Nuke as well which should be a massive help.

1) Benn - Seguin - Nuke
2) Janmark - Faksa - Radulov
3) Dickinson - Spezza - UFA
4) Shore - Hanzal - Pitlick

1) Lindell - Klingberg
2) Methot - Honka
3) Heiskanen - Johns

Play the first line ~19 minutes all situations, second line -16 minutes all situations, third line ~13 minutes mostly offensive zone, and fourth line ~12 minutes mostly defensive zone.

That’s a non playoff line up

This team goes nowhere until they add 2 secound line players
 

AveryStar4Eva

Registered User
Aug 28, 2014
7,453
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That’s a non playoff line up

This team goes nowhere until they add 2 secound line players

We don't have the prospects to land a second line player in a trade. We might have the cap space to land one as a UFA.

Our best hope is to run a deep line up with a good coach like Vegas has.
 

BfantZ

Registered User
Jun 22, 2017
2,635
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We don't have the prospects to land a second line player in a trade. We might have the cap space to land one as a UFA.

Our best hope is to run a deep line up with a good coach like Vegas has.
We definately have enough prospects In the system to make a trade for a solid second line player , I think until we dump spezza and hanzals contract cap space will be the biggest issue . Dickinson , nichushkin , guryanov , Robertson are all guys that We would hate to lose but if they can bring back someone who can already score 20-30 goals we should definately do it . They also have to get a better back up for bishop because he will most likely be injured again next season. Don’t know if anyone will be available though or that they can afford . Might just be better to give an elc to Colton point and save money for a forward .
 

AveryStar4Eva

Registered User
Aug 28, 2014
7,453
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We definately have enough prospects In the system to make a trade for a solid second line player , I think until we dump spezza and hanzals contract cap space will be the biggest issue . Dickinson , nichushkin , guryanov , Robertson are all guys that We would hate to lose but if they can bring back someone who can already score 20-30 goals we should definately do it . They also have to get a better back up for bishop because he will most likely be injured again next season. Don’t know if anyone will be available though or that they can afford . Might just be better to give an elc to Colton point and save money for a forward .

Don't think team are lining up to trade 20-30 goal scorers for Jason '2 points in 27 games' Dickinson or Dennis '0.44 AHL points per game' Gurianov. Our prospects are not good
 

northstars

Registered User
May 11, 2016
170
49
Saskatchewan
Denis Gurianov with zero shots on goal in last 3 games. Another epic bust in a long line of epic busts. Its no wonder this team struggles to make the playoffs year after year. A monkey could throw darts and draft better than the Stars.

Gurianov has actually regressed this year if you didn't think that was possible. He obviously lacks the self motivation and mental strength to succeed.
 

Smelling Salt

Busey is life
Mar 8, 2006
6,955
3,375
Winnipeg
Denis Gurianov with zero shots on goal in last 3 games. Another epic bust in a long line of epic busts. Its no wonder this team struggles to make the playoffs year after year. A monkey could throw darts and draft better than the Stars.

Gurianov has actually regressed this year if you didn't think that was possible. He obviously lacks the self motivation and mental strength to succeed.

Take a look at the 2015 draft. I mean Nill picking Guryanov over Barzal and Connor has been talked about to death. But look at the Jets overall 2015. They drafted Connor (29 goals), Roslovic (only reason he isn't a full time player is Winnipeg's insane forward depth) and Niku who is tearing up the AHL as a rookie. Heck they even drafted Erik Foley who they traded for Stastny to load up for the playoffs, and the Blues think enough of him they just signed him for three years. Nill drafted.... *crickets*

I've said it before: Nill falling asleep at the draft table in 2015 probably cost the Stars for the next 10 years.
 
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Troy McClure

Suter will never be scratched
Mar 12, 2002
47,587
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South of Heaven
I love how much this board overrates Dickinson. It's so sad to see. He's nothing special, let it go.
I think he sucks, but I also want to see him get some real ice time over the last few games. Use these meaningless games to prove that he sucks. Don’t leave us guessing.
 

Smelling Salt

Busey is life
Mar 8, 2006
6,955
3,375
Winnipeg
Dickinson got off to that hot start in Cedar Park this season and then fell off a cliff. I'd like to be wrong but I'm not sure he's anything but injury depth.
 

Satan

MIGHTY
Apr 13, 2010
91,166
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Lapland
Take a look at the 2015 draft. I mean Nill picking Guryanov over Barzal and Connor has been talked about to death. But look at the Jets overall 2015. They drafted Connor (29 goals), Roslovic (only reason he isn't a full time player is Winnipeg's insane forward depth) and Niku who is tearing up the AHL as a rookie. Heck they even drafted Erik Foley who they traded for Stastny to load up for the playoffs, and the Blues think enough of him they just signed him for three years. Nill drafted.... *crickets*

I've said it before: Nill falling asleep at the draft table in 2015 probably cost the Stars for the next 10 years.

WPG killed that draft. They even got Spacek in the 4th who has the same statline as Hintz (albeit on a better, higher scoring team)

We got Hintz, who's been alright in the AHL but not trusted to make the leap to the NHL this year since we're chalk full of plugs. We need to get him some NHL experience to see what we have, which is likely an okay 3rd liner.

Martenet is garbage

Cecconi is intriguing, he saw his point totals with Michigan go up; likely due to increased responsibility. I'd like to sign him to an ELC after the Frozen Four and get him down to Texas.

I have no read on Ruusu. His stats don't look good. I don't know anything about him. Goalies are voodoo.

I think he sucks, but I also want to see him get some real ice time over the last few games. Use these meaningless games to prove that he sucks. Don’t leave us guessing.

I agree, but the staff is probably delusional and want to win the next 3 games by riding our vets to prove some sort of point.
 

________

Registered User
Feb 6, 2006
4,815
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It's easy to say it's all drafting, but this team sucks at the player development aspect, and then lets go of players for nothing. Players go elsewhere and do better.
They don't sell high on players (non selling at the deadline). Who was the last player they sold high on? Chiasson? It's sell off players low, or waive them when they can't trade them.
This team will never be consistently good until they figure out the player development issues. That means giving players a legit chance in the NHL, and not treating them like a yo-yo.
 

BfantZ

Registered User
Jun 22, 2017
2,635
1,144
One season in the nhl under Hitchcock giving him fa for icetime is not enough to declare Dickinson a bust .Guryanov , 2 seasons in the ahl playing Bottom six minutes . Ya that’s not enough to declare him a bust either . There still young people .If those guys aren’t able to be impact players at 24-25 years old , than you can call them busts .
 

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