BlackRedGold said:
Actually in all NHL markets tickets are priced to maximize revenues based upon demand.
So then why haven't the ticket prices been sky high for the past 10 years? Why do they grow at a higher rate than inflation? Why are they growing at a higher rate than attendance growth?
Well then those cities shouldn't have NHL teams if they're not willing to pay NHL prices. Why should the fans in cities that are willing to pay NHL prices suffer a lockout because fans in other cities are too cheap to pay NHL prices?
What exactly are NHL prices?
Ottawa is the lower half of the league as well, and they complain about the league economics and prices as much as anyone.
I guess they shouldn't have a team either.
But this figures I guess.. 2 years ago when Bryden had the city by the short curlies, Sens fans everywhere where at a loss... but now with a stable owner who is willing to put up with some losses, Sens fans can join the leafs up on their perch like 2 grumpy grandfathers yelling at the kids who don't have as much money as them.
Neither league is very good? That's rather subjective. I didn't see a whole lot of Flames or Lightning fans complaining about the league during the playoffs last year.
No, but Sens fans sure complained alot... so did every other teams fans who weren't in the finals. And as much as the complaining stopped in Calgary during their run, it started back up once the aura of what happened started to rub off.
What is the spread in both leagues? Why do you think that it isn't that different? I don't follow baseball that closely anymore but don't the Yankees have a payroll close to $200M? There's no one even close to that in the NHL.
And I said within each sport, the spread isn't different, it's just the haves in baseball have a lot more than the haves in hockey, and the have-nots in baseball have a lot more than the have-nots in hockey.
The difference is that the top revenue generating teams in baseball are in the biggest markets. In the NHL , for the most part, they aren't. In the NHL the top revenue generating teams are the ones that are successful, not the ones in the big markets.
Sorry man... the top revenue generating teams in the NHL are as follows:
New York Rangers
Dallas Stars
Toronto Maple Leafs
Philadelphia Flyers
Detroit Red Wings
Colorado Avalanche
Boston Bruins
Chicago Blackhawks
Los Angeles Kings
Montreal Canadiens
Minnesota Wild
New York Islanders
St Louis Blues
New Jersey Devils
Columbus Blue Jackets
San Jose Sharks
Tampa Bay Lightning
Washington Capitals
Oddly enough, they are some of the bigger markets, and more successful teams... gee, who would have guessed?
When have the Senators traded off any better players?
It started with Yashin, then Bonk. Like I've said to you countless times, wait until the contracts for guys like Hossa, Havlat, Spezza, etc... come up for renewal. You haven't seen it yet, but the market for those guys is far more than what the Senators can pay. Try using a little bit of forsight. You are evidently an economics whiz... NHL salaries have gone up every year, and they'll keep going up.
The Sens will probably be right were they were the past off-season, Stanley Cup contenders, in a couple of seasons.
Contenders? Maybe... depends on how much coin Hossa wants. If you think he'll still only be looking for $3.5 mil after a couple more 40 goal seasons, you are dreaming. Guys like him, Spezza, Havlat, Redden and maybe even Chara are going to be up for some pretty big money... I wonder what you will say then. What'll happen when Muckler has to trade UFA to be Chara in a couple of years? Hope you get a good young decent return like you got for Yashin and start over. Your team is on the cusp... but your players are also on the cusp... they are just hovering into that elite player category.
Not everyone is Alfredsson who signs for less money than he could get elsewhere.
How much bigger are they getting? If you're going to make a claim at least quantify it! How much are salaries rising in the NHL?
1997-98 was when the NHL average salary topped $1mil for the first time. In 2000-01 the average NHL salary was $1.48mil. At the end of the 2003-04 season, that was up to $1.83 mil.
I thought I prefaced my previous post with the fact that I don't have a financial interest in the NHL. So why do I care about this?
Are you not a fan? You should be concerned about how the owner of your franchise feels.
You've had those players in your organization for over a decade. Why shouldn't they have the right to go somewhere else if they choose? Why should they be stuck in a losing organization for their entire career?
Because most players don't start to make serious strides in the NHL for 5 or 6 years after they are drafted, then they start to play well, establish themselves, the team starts to win, and BAM, contract time and so long to the player you just spent 6 or 7 years developing.
Do you think players on the 97 or 98 Oilers team were sick of losing? They were a young team with some good players who beat some pretty good teams in the playoffs. You think they left because they were sick of losing?
Hopefully the revenues will be there with a Cup or two to pay them. There is a chance that can happen. But how can the Sens keep all those good players if there is a cap? Then they have to lose someone.
No they won't, because 30 other teams will be in the same situation as them. Hossa won't be able to look for $6mil from other teams, because guys like Palffy, Demitra, etc... will also be looking.
If there is a cap, it changes the dynamic of everything... comparables get thrown out the window. instead of Chara looking for Neidermayer money ($7+mil), or Pronger money ($10+mil), he won't be able to get much more than the $5 mil he nearly already makes.
If the best players are going to command more money the Sens can pay those players with the money from my really expensive playoff tickets. With a cap they can't use the money I spent on playoff tickets to sign them. They'll have to trade some of them off.
They can't use the money you spent on playoff tickets to keep up as it is. Otherwise, they wouldn't have dealt Bonk. He's depth a team like Ottawa needs to make it farther in the playoffs.
Don't you see? Any player you cast off some team will pick up and they will be better for it. Your playoff revenues over the past few seasons hasn't done much to help you keep a guy like Bonk, or Arvedsson... guys who aren't flashy, but who are still contributors.
It starts off with those guys, but there aren't enough of those guys to cast off to keep up with rising salaries. Soon it isn't the 2nd line centre, it's the 1st.
I think they're more likely to lose out with a cap. Especially if the age of UFA is lowered.
How? If everyteam is under the same restrictions, how is it Ottawa loses out?
How much have salaries been increasing season after season? You keep bringing that up but you never specify how much.
Because it's common knowledge.
Well, I'm a season ticket holder. Although the longer this drags on, the more likely it is that that will change permanently.
And guess what?
You are in the minority of seasons ticket holders.