Confirmed with Link: Leafs sign LW/C Patrick Marleau (3 years, $6.25 AAV, NMC) - Part II

[Kiwi]

I always assumed that the fans who worry so much about team financials are simply egotists who like to think they know more than the people who are actually running team.

Congratulations

I was waiting for the old your a bad person because you question a decision by management comment to come up and you didn't disappoint

Interesting look at things coming from a Leafs supporter, a team with some of the worst management in the entire league for the last two decades (that doesn't include the current management team)

I'm a Leafs supporter but that doesn't blind me to a potentially bad contract and that has zero to do with my own ego
It's experience of knowing what they potentially look like because we've had some many of the bloody things over the years

 

[Shanty]

Congratulations

I was waiting for the old your a bad person because you question a decision by management comment to come up and you didn't disappoint

Interesting look at things coming from a Leafs supporter, a team with some of the worst management in the entire league for the last two decades (that doesn't include the current management team)

I'm a Leafs supporter but that doesn't blind me to a potentially bad contract and that has zero to do with my own ego
It's experience of knowing what they potentially look like because we've had some many of the bloody things over the years

Rojac's is the same attitude that caused the general conundrum that is the USA. "They must know what they're doing."

 

[4thline]

The Marleau contract is not going to handcuff us long term. It was a move designed to take advantage of a unique window of opportunity.

Well said. With the objective of winning not spending the money now is just as inefficient use of cap space as the absolute worst case of the 3rd year of the deal

 

[Daisy Jane]

All of the contracts you listed were signed by previous management regimes with the exception of Cowan, and that was integral to unloading Phaneuf's contract which was worthwhile.

Your logic is sound, but I just haven't seen any evidence to suggest the contrary with respect to the modus operandi of the current management regime.

The Marleau contract is not going to handcuff us long term. It was a move designed to take advantage of a unique window of opportunity.

and i honestly believe that for a lot of people that's what's actually bothering them and I've seen some versions of "well we aren't as good" or "if we aren't healthy, we'll not be good so..." - a lot of people want to take this year (and next) to continue to "rebuild" vs. trying to accomplish something special.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Congratulations

I was waiting for the old your a bad person because you question a decision by management comment to come up and you didn't disappoint

Interesting look at things coming from a Leafs supporter, a team with some of the worst management in the entire league for the last two decades (that doesn't include the current management team)

I'm a Leafs supporter but that doesn't blind me to a potentiallybad contract and that has zero to do with my own ego
It's experience of knowing what they potentially look like because we've had some many of the bloody things over the years

So why don't you wait and see what happens instead of telling everyone how bad it could potentially be in every thread possible, multiple times. We get it

 

[Daisy Jane]

So why don't you wait and see what happens instead of telling everyone how bad it could potentially be in every thread possible, multiple times. We get it

exactly. it can potentially be bad. it can potentially be better.
but it's right now a decent contract.

 

[rojac]

Rojac's is the same attitude that caused the general conundrum that is the USA. "They must know what they're doing."

I made no comment about whether I thought Leafs management, past or present, was doing the job well. I merely spoke to what I thought was the motivation of fans who constantly questioned management moves. Now, they may be doing it just because they think the Leafs would be a better team without those moves or they may be doing it so they'll be perceived as smart by their little friends online.

You have to remember that as far as I am concerned, while I would love to see the Leafs win a cup, it's no skin off my butt if they don't. So, I'm largely a passive observer when it comes to management moves. If the Leafs win a cup, I'll have enjoyed watching the cup run and I'll be happy for the players and officials with the club. But I see no need for me to massively celebrate -- I didn't do anything.

 

[BigBlu]

It's a really dumb contract. Let's be real. Superfluous luxury to add another winger. And puts us in potential jeopardy later. Unless you don't value a guy like Nylander. When you are up and coming like the Leafs are, you can afford to keep your powder dry. But we have squeezed ourselves. Lou Lam must love working under pressure.

And yeah, he better play on the top line this year. He'll be 39 next year. Not sure what we would be saving him for at a rate of 6+ million dollars a year. Maybe we win the cup with him this year. But really, we probably won't. And his contract may choke off our ability to set up the next eight years. His third year is a huge time bomb. And for everyone who says we can just trade him, then why did we give him a NMC? There better be a quiet agreement for him to go away, Otherwise we are really letting PM dictate the foreseeable future of the team, and all for 1 year of Marleau in his age 40 year.

 

[4thline]

Let's be real. Superfluous luxury to add another winger. And puts us in potential jeopardy later. Unless you don't value a guy like Nylander.

A "Luxury" in a cap world = being able to ice a team better than it's true evaluation = better team = better chance of winning.

B. Show your work. How does this contract force Nylander out?

 

[FlareKnight]

It's kind of weird how taking advantage of a good situation is now a bad thing. There won't be many opportunities to create this kind of forward depth. These next few seasons are a huge opportunity to do something exciting and I'm glad we're at least taking advantage of it.

The Leafs are trying to ice the best team they can this year. Marleau makes the team better. They will have to plan around contracts and figure out how to ice the best team they can in the next few seasons. But that's how it will always be. There's always going to be something to keep an eye on or that could cause problems down the road. If they can't resolve those issues then it's fine to rip into them at that point.

But for now I'm more curious about what they've assembled for this season. Where Marleau fits in the lineup and how much better this team can get.

 

[BigBlu]

B. Show your work. How does this contract force Nylander out?

You're right of course. They may just have to trade Rielly or Gardiner.

 

[Damisoph]

omg something bad may or may not happen in three years, I need to worry about it now.

 

[BigBlu]

You try to keep....

Matthews at 10.5
Nylander at 8
Meaner at 7.5
Anderson at 5
Rielly at 5
Kadri at 4.5
Zaitsev ay 4.5

ANDDDDD....

Marleau at 6.25-------- fugetaboutit.

 

[BigBlu]

omg something bad may or may not happen in three years, I need to worry about it now.

2 years.

I own life insurance. Do you? And I don't speed too much, and usually wear a seatbelt when I drive.

 

[4thline]

You're right of course. They may just have to trade Reilly or Gardiner.

And that will put the team in jeopardy?

If neither emerge as true #1's by that 3rd year than there's borderline enough money to squeeze both in, and if not- while being good players they're not irreplaceable.

If Rielly emerges- try and re-sign Gards but if there's not enough room we let him walk, see what we have in Dermott/ Liljegren, and potentially go big game hunting with the Marleau money the next year to fill any gaps

If Gardiner emerges and Rielly doesn't- same as above, but with added assets from dealing Rielly.

If both emerge prior to the third year, quit your kvetching, we've won a cup and are dealing with the aftermath of having too many good players.

Point being- a one year choke point doesn't put the future of this team in jeopardy, it's the cost of going for it now, and that choke point isn't even a certainty

 

[Lightsol]

You're right of course. They may just have to trade Rielly or Gardiner.

TRADING AN OVERRATED D-MAN! What a pain!

Anyone remember when trading Gunnarsson was going to cause the Leafs D to fall apart?

 

[4thline]

You try to keep....

Matthews at 10.5
Nylander at 8
Meaner at 7.5
Anderson at 5
Rielly at 5
Kadri at 4.5
Zaitsev ay 4.5

ANDDDDD....

Marleau at 6.25-------- fugetaboutit.

Done.

"Assuming Brown and the big 3 locked in at a combined 29M, and Matthews/Marner hitting their full bonuses we're left with 67 M to ice

xxx-Matthews-Marner
xxx-Nylander-Brown
Marleau-Kadri-Hyman
Martin-xxx-xxx
xxx

Rielly-Zaitsev
xxx-xxx
xxx-xxx
xxx

Andersen
xxx

With Grundstrom/Brooks/Bracco/Timashov/Korshkov (if he comes over) up front and Dermott/ Neilsen/ Liljegren on D hopefully able to fill at lot of those spots on elc's. If they can't we're in much more trouble than Marleau's contract.
Assuming a static cap (unlikely) there would be 8 million in cap space + 5 million in LTIR. 6 of those spots could easily be filled by $1M or less UFA's/ RFAs. 9 million to add 2 top 9 supporting forwards, and 3 top 5 D. It will certainly be tight, but again the plan was always to rely on ELC's."

And that was with a flat cap, even if the PA escalator is only used once that's another 3.5 to play with.

And that's assuming we spend to the cap the year before (and don't use internal replacements at F, pushing all bonuses over (another 3+ iirc) (And if we don't use internal replacements then Kapanen hasn't had chance to earn a big second contract and can be added to the pool of cheap talent)

And with the numbers you gave for the 3 amigos + brown signing @ 2+ rather than 3+ that's another ~900k.

I think we'll survive

 

[BigBlu]

Well, we gave up the chance to bring back Gardiner In your scheme,, for one year of Marleau.

 

[ACC1224]

Well, we gave up Gardiner for no reason.

Isn't everything done for the same reason? The Leafs only have one goal.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

You try to keep....

Matthews at 10.5
Nylander at 8
Meaner at 7.5
Anderson at 5
Rielly at 5
Kadri at 4.5
Zaitsev ay 4.5

ANDDDDD....

Marleau at 6.25-------- fugetaboutit.

can't see Nylander getting 8

 

[4thline]

Well, we gave up Gardiner In your scheme,, for one year of Marleau.

And then replace him with one of...
http://https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/free-agents/2021/caphit/all/defense/ufa

or maybe Dermott/Liljegren assumes that mantle and we end up with 6.25 mil to spend elsewhere.

Non-core players are replaceable. Years with Matthews/Marner/Nylander on a combined 3 mill cap hit are not.

 

[BigBlu]

And then replace him with one of...
http://https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/free-agents/2021/caphit/all/defense/ufa

or maybe Dermott/Liljegren assumes that mantle and we end up with 6.25 mil to spend elsewhere.

Non-core players are replaceable. Years with Matthews/Marner/Nylander on a combined 3 mill cap hit are not.

These next two years are not our Cup years. Probably. And I'd give us better odds that most…

 

[BigBlu]

You wouldn't believe the indignation I was met with in the Marleau thread three weeks ago, when I said we would have to trade Rielly or Gardiner in order to keep our big three. Now, Gardiner is suddenly a "replaceable player". People are coming around....

 

[4thline]

These next two years are not our Cup years. Probably. And I'd give us better odds that mostÂ…

Maybe we win, maybe we don't. But maximizing our odds in two seasons of unique opportunity is worth one potentially down year with little to no long term consequences, after which we restructure and settle in to accommodate the core contracts over the next decade

 

[Kiwi]

So why don't you wait and see what happens instead of telling everyone how bad it could potentially be in every thread possible, multiple times. We get it

Yes we should all go with the usual "management knows best" or "justification" of the day that usually gets thrown around when the Marleau deal gets brought up critical thinking be damned

exactly. it can potentially be bad. it can potentially be better.
but it's right now a decent contract.

Okay Daisy in the name of constructive argument how is this a decent contract?