Prospect Info: Leafs 2017 5th Rd Pick (#141 OA) - Fedor Gordeev - 6'6" 211lbs LHD - Flint (OHL)

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Morgs

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Fingers crossed is right, each player is different.

I think Gordeev is a better skater than Nielsen and Mattinen in their draft years.

Yeah, but he also was a forward before this season. Unless it just magically clicks, he's a raw player, playing in a raw position. Yes his development could be ridiculous in 5-7 years, but we have to make a decision on an ELC in 2.

Gotta see some crazy development in the next season or two for him to ever get a contract.
 

Walshy7

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I mean, we learned that in 2015 with Nielsen. Then next season everyone said the same thing about Middleton, and that didn't happen (although I still don't mind that pick). The problem with going really raw in the CHL is that you only have 2 years to sign the player (I thought it was 3), so unless he takes some gigantic steps next season, it's likely he'll never be a player for us.

Fingers crossed though.

his coach said he thinks he will grow alot this year, i cant remember off the top of my head they lost the 3 dmen who played above him (at least 2) so outside of a trade he will be on their top pair and get more PP time this upcoming season. For me he seem far more intersting than middelton, his 1st season in the OHL and playing D full time he only scored 5 points less than middelton in his 3rd!. Players who score very little in jnr really become anything in the NHL even the best shutdown D scored in jnr. We will have to see how this season goes but his coach is very optimistic
 

Morgs

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his coach said he thinks he will grow alot this year, i cant remember off the top of my head they lost the 3 dmen who played above him (at least 2) so outside of a trade he will be on their top pair and get more PP time this upcoming season. For me he seem far more intersting than middelton, his 1st season in the OHL and playing D full time he only scored 5 points less than middelton in his 3rd!. Players who score very little in jnr really become anything in the NHL even the best shutdown D scored in jnr. We will have to see how this season goes but his coach is very optimistic

That's good to hear. The thing that's different about Middleton though is that he's a defensive defenseman that can skate. Imo everything I've read / watched I've seen a guy who slows down the game (+), is great in his own end (+), stops people right at the blue line (+). It's apparent he's been a guy who's focused on defense his whole life. He'll never drive possession, but he definitely has the ability to slow down the game and be a teams best defensive defenseman.

Gordeev has never played defense, so I don't even know where to start with him. Has he even decided what style of defenseman he is? Is he offensive/defensive/two-way? Can he skate the puck up without being caught out of position? Etc etc. Lots of questions, but we do have two years to learn more.
 

Walshy7

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That's good to hear. The thing that's different about Middleton though is that he's a defensive defenseman that can skate. Imo everything I've read / watched I've seen a guy who slows down the game (+), is great in his own end (+), stops people right at the blue line (+). It's apparent he's been a guy who's focused on defense his whole life. He'll never drive possession, but he definitely has the ability to slow down the game and be a teams best defensive defenseman.

Gordeev has never played defense, so I don't even know where to start with him. Has he even decided what style of defenseman he is? Is he offensive/defensive/two-way? Can he skate the puck up without being caught out of position? Etc etc. Lots of questions, but we do have two years to learn more.

good points, we will have to wait and see. Unless this guy ***** the bed id sign him at the ned of 2 years he is such a wildcard due to new to the position let him play on the marlies for 2,3,4 years see what we have
 

Cor

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Gordeev is a kid that if he gets a bigger role, including maybe some PP time, can be a 20, maybe 30 point guy in the OHL. I think his "lack of offense" is more due to him and the Flint staff focusing on the transition to defense, and working on his defensive game.

But I mean, if Scott Wheeler doesn't like it...
 
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4thline

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That's good to hear. The thing that's different about Middleton though is that he's a defensive defenseman that can skate. Imo everything I've read / watched I've seen a guy who slows down the game (+), is great in his own end (+), stops people right at the blue line (+). It's apparent he's been a guy who's focused on defense his whole life. He'll never drive possession, but he definitely has the ability to slow down the game and be a teams best defensive defenseman.

Gordeev has never played defense, so I don't even know where to start with him. Has he even decided what style of defenseman he is? Is he offensive/defensive/two-way? Can he skate the puck up without being caught out of position? Etc etc. Lots of questions, but we do have two years to learn more.

These are good points, I couldn't decide if I wanted to start a new "Tower Projects" Thread or reply here.

I think you nailed it. These are very different prospects whose selections are aimed at very different home run swings.

Middleton is aimed at getting a very rare in this NHL Josh Manson type shutdown D, a mean, mobile, modern version of Hal Gill as a punishing defensive rock that can play in your top 4.

Gordeev by any indication is an entirely different beast. From what his coach is saying, from what Hunter said, this seems like the definition of a boom/bust pick. Gifted athletically, huge, mobile, skilled, but suuuuper raw. Seems like either a guy that doesn't put it together and is left unsigned, or absolutely booms. I'm gonna get get lit up for this but the pick seems like the absolute haily-est of mary's at a Brent Burns/ Byfuglein type mobile beast of a physical offensive d-man that isn't the greatest defensively
 

Morgs

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These are good points, I couldn't decide if I wanted to start a new "Tower Projects" Thread or reply here.

I think you nailed it. These are very different prospects whose selections are aimed at very different home run swings.

Middleton is aimed at getting a very rare in this NHL Josh Manson type shutdown D, a mean, mobile, modern version of Hal Gill as a punishing defensive rock that can play in your top 4.

Gordeev by any indication is an entirely different beast. From what his coach is saying, from what Hunter said, this seems like the definition of a boom/bust pick. Gifted athletically, huge, mobile, skilled, but suuuuper raw. Seems like either a guy that doesn't put it together and is left unsigned, or absolutely booms. I'm gonna get get lit up for this but the pick seems like the absolute haily-est of mary's at a Brent Burns/ Byfuglein type mobile beast of a physical offensive d-man that isn't the greatest defensively

If he had offensive talent though, why didn't he put up more than 13 points in 62 games?? Legitimately curious.
 

Drew311

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Does this guy have a howitzer like most tall defensemen? The offence isn't there, but if the kid has a big shot he could be of some use.
 

Bloomberg

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If he had offensive talent though, why didn't he put up more than 13 points in 62 games?? Legitimately curious.

Apparently he didn't get much opportunities because he was lower on the D depth chart. But he should get more opportunities this upcoming season
 

bobermay

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If he had offensive talent though, why didn't he put up more than 13 points in 62 games?? Legitimately curious.

Because he was #4 or #5 on the depth chart playing behind 19 and 20 year olds.

Tell me how many #5 d-men get more than 15 points?
 

4thline

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If he had offensive talent though, why didn't he put up more than 13 points in 62 games?? Legitimately curious.

I could only speculate/ talk out of my ass. The transition to D full time at the same time as transitioning to the O, being buried on a deep team, a just plain bad year not representative of his talent, who knows. Lack of PP time definitely had an effect, 12 of his 13 points were 5v5.

Food for thought (caveat- I'm a big advocate of birthyear over draft year)

Connor timmins was just drafted with the 32nd over all pick coming off a 61 point U19 year, with a 13 point OHL U18 year and 18 point in 30 game Junior B U17 year.

Gordeev had a 13 point OHL U18 year and 26 point in 44 game junior B U17 year, and has far greater physical tools.

Could you imagine drafting a 6-6 version of Timmins in the 5th round last year? IMO that's what this pick is going for, pure roll of the dice on projectability
 

Cor

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Gordeev is a kid that if he gets a bigger role, including maybe some PP time, can be a 20, maybe 30 point guy in the OHL. I think his "lack of offense" is more due to him and the Flint staff focusing on the transition to defense, and working on his defensive game.

But I mean, if Scott Wheeler doesn't like it...

Heh, just read an article that has Flint's head coach talking about Gordeev. Said he plans on giving him a bunch more responsibility. Said how quick he's learned since transitioning to a d-man is impressive, and thinks he's a great fit in Toronto and how they want to play.
 

Jeypic

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I could only speculate/ talk out of my ass. The transition to D full time at the same time as transitioning to the O, being buried on a deep team, a just plain bad year not representative of his talent, who knows. Lack of PP time definitely had an effect, 12 of his 13 points were 5v5.

Food for thought (caveat- I'm a big advocate of birthyear over draft year)

Connor timmins was just drafted with the 32nd over all pick coming off a 61 point U19 year, with a 13 point OHL U18 year and 18 point in 30 game Junior B U17 year.

Gordeev had a 13 point OHL U18 year and 26 point in 44 game junior B U17 year, and has far greater physical tools.

Could you imagine drafting a 6-6 version of Timmins in the 5th round last year? IMO that's what this pick is going for, pure roll of the dice on projectability
Good post, and I don't doubt this is the thought process management goes through when evaluating picks like this.
 

Morgs

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Apparently he didn't get much opportunities because he was lower on the D depth chart. But he should get more opportunities this upcoming season

Ah. Well like I said previously. Unless he has a Nielsen like season next year, he's probably not a prospect worth thinking about.
 

Nithoniniel

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Gordeev is a kid that if he gets a bigger role, including maybe some PP time, can be a 20, maybe 30 point guy in the OHL. I think his "lack of offense" is more due to him and the Flint staff focusing on the transition to defense, and working on his defensive game.

But I mean, if Scott Wheeler doesn't like it...

Reading about him, you find references to him being a guy with enticing offensive tools when he was younger. We'll see if he can land as a D-man this upcoming season as he'll get a top pairing role.
 

Walshy7

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Reading about him, you find references to him being a guy with enticing offensive tools when he was younger. We'll see if he can land as a D-man this upcoming season as he'll get a top pairing role.

if it doesnt work flip him to 4th line RW and tell him get in peoples way
 

crump

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his coach said he thinks he will grow alot this year, i cant remember off the top of my head they lost the 3 dmen who played above him (at least 2) so outside of a trade he will be on their top pair and get more PP time this upcoming season. For me he seem far more intersting than middelton, his 1st season in the OHL and playing D full time he only scored 5 points less than middelton in his 3rd!. Players who score very little in jnr really become anything in the NHL even the best shutdown D scored in jnr. We will have to see how this season goes but his coach is very optimistic

Read that interview with his coach. Seemed pretty excited about his stick and skating. Thinks he will fit in with Babcock's system. He only really switched to D full time last season. His skating is very good already and 6'-6" he's going to grow even more. Once he puts on muscle he will the dark horse in this draft for me. Has more offence than his numbers tell as well.
 

DopeyFish

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Ah. Well like I said previously. Unless he has a Nielsen like season next year, he's probably not a prospect worth thinking about.

I expect him to.

He's a skilled puck mover and fast skater... at 6'6. He has huge boom potential.
 

bonjovi0308

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I have high hopes for this kid. For big men, skating is probably the most difficult skill to handle but he already has it.

According to Brock Otten, he actually credited Gordeev as the best skater among Rasanen, Middleton and Mattinen.
 

TMLFOREVER**

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That's good to hear. The thing that's different about Middleton though is that he's a defensive defenseman that can skate. Imo everything I've read / watched I've seen a guy who slows down the game (+), is great in his own end (+), stops people right at the blue line (+). It's apparent he's been a guy who's focused on defense his whole life. He'll never drive possession, but he definitely has the ability to slow down the game and be a teams best defensive defenseman.

Gordeev has never played defense, so I don't even know where to start with him. Has he even decided what style of defenseman he is? Is he offensive/defensive/two-way? Can he skate the puck up without being caught out of position? Etc etc. Lots of questions, but we do have two years to learn more.

Exact opposite that this team is. Leafs can skate and want a high tempo. The pace of all the young guys is unreal and if a prospect can't keep up, he will never see a cup of coffee with the team.

Being able to "slow the game down", is not what this team needs. Being able to slow the game down in todays NHL is ridiculous. The other teams can skate too. You can only slow the game down if you have the puck. If you don't transition and move the puck forward, you will have forecheckers on your rear and strip pucks from you.
 

Kiwi

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Exact opposite that this team is. Leafs can skate and want a high tempo. The pace of all the young guys is unreal and if a prospect can't keep up, he will never see a cup of coffee with the team.

Being able to "slow the game down", is not what this team needs. Being able to slow the game down in todays NHL is ridiculous. The other teams can skate too. You can only slow the game down if you have the puck. If you don't transition and move the puck forward, you will have forecheckers on your rear and strip pucks from you.

Not being able to "slow the play down" is half the reason every time were in our own zone it looks like a 5 alarm fire drill

Having puck movers on the blueline is nice but it's not a bad thing to have a big mobile defenseman who can actually stop teams from cycling us to death and can make it much harder for guys to sit in front of Andersen and bang in rubbish all day

Getting a Manson or much more mobile Polak would be bloody useful right about now to do some of the heavier lifting that the other guys are not really suited to do
Move well defend well make a good first pass

Profit
 

Trapper

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Heh, just read an article that has Flint's head coach talking about Gordeev. Said he plans on giving him a bunch more responsibility. Said how quick he's learned since transitioning to a d-man is impressive, and thinks he's a great fit in Toronto and how they want to play.

What was the reasoning for his transition from forward to defense?
I'm curious on that.
 

Cor

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What was the reasoning for his transition from forward to defense?
I'm curious on that.

You don't see too many 6'7 forwards. Just think Flint management and possibly Gordeev himself thought it'd be better for his career.

But I honestly don't know. The coach didn't mention anything on that.
 

Cotton

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I have high hopes for this kid. For big men, skating is probably the most difficult skill to handle but he already has it.

According to Brock Otten, he actually credited Gordeev as the best skater among Rasanen, Middleton and Mattinen.

Easily, which made it funny reading a few "pylon" comments after he was drafted, kid can skate.
 

Morgs

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Exact opposite that this team is. Leafs can skate and want a high tempo. The pace of all the young guys is unreal and if a prospect can't keep up, he will never see a cup of coffee with the team.

Being able to "slow the game down", is not what this team needs. Being able to slow the game down in todays NHL is ridiculous. The other teams can skate too. You can only slow the game down if you have the puck. If you don't transition and move the puck forward, you will have forecheckers on your rear and strip pucks from you.

Actually, it's exactly what this team needs. A defensive defenseman that can slow the play down. A Tanev / Hjalmarsson.

If you had a guy who could basically stop shots going either direction, and paired them with someone who can drive possession (Gardiner/Rielly), you could essentially have a perfect OFD/DFD pairing.
 
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