LD Rasmus Dahlin - Frolunda HC, SHL (2018, 1st, BUF) Part 2

[Hokinaittii]

What?

The poster doesn't think Dahlin is generational talent/on par with McDavid as talent.

 

[JAS 39 Gripen]

The poster doesn't think Dahlin is generational talent/on par with McDavid as talent.

Ah, I see. Well, to each his own.

 

[Luddowich]

My dude, I did not compare Dahlin to Kylington or Liljegren. I specifically say Dahlin is on a different level. But even then, Kylington was putting up historical production for his age at 16, against men in the SHL. People on HF (particularly Swedes!) were saying that Kylington was better at 16 than Victor Hedman, that if he were playing in NA everyone would know that he was better than Hanifin, etc.

Again, I don't need you to wax poetic about Dahlin. I'm already a huge fan. What I need is for you to answer my questions.

Would you take Dahlin over Matthews and Eichel, without question? Would you seriously consider taking Dahlin over McDavid? McDavid is generational and it's only been three years since his draft year. If Dahlin isn't better than McDavid, then he isn't generational.

No one seriously had Eichel over McDavid. The only people who did were writers trying to get clicks, talking heads trying to sound different, and US-biased posters. If Dahlin were generational, there would be absolutely no question from anyone that he would go over Svechnikov, unless you think Svech is better than Eichel.

You're acting like Dahlin is some obscure prospect that no one has ever seen before except Swedes. It's only 9-10 months until his draft day and he's the prospective #1 overall pick. If you think that he hasn't been scouted extensively by real professional scouts that work for scouting agencies and NHL teams and don't post on HFBoards dot com, you're nuts. Unless you think that you know better than the pros. I'm not saying scouts are perfect, but I trust the pros to know if a 17 year old is a generational prospect or not. If Dahlin were a generational prospect, we'd know. What would he have to do to he labeled generational? Be better than McDavid.

No offense, but yeah, I need to hear from someone other than Swedish HF Boards posters that Dahlin is generational. No offense, but as someone who lives in NA and literally cannot watch Dahlin on a regular basis, yeah, I do depend on others reports to form an opinion on him. And no offense, but it's awfully rich for you to get snide about me needing to do that and at the same time suggesting that I just listen to you because you're definitely right.

Then why do you make a comparison between Kylington and Dahlin again if you're well aware of Kylington being tiers below Dahlin?

There were absolutely people who thought Eichel were better predraft, they were literally neck and neck predraft.

I would 100% take Dahlin over Matthews in a vacuum, Eichel and McDavid would have me thinking about it, difficult with both though seeing how he has a much longer sample size over Dahlin. I give you that one, but it's obvious we have different definition of generational prospects

But this third paragraph is what interest me a lot, how come so many people still compare him to Liljegren if everyone has watched him. How come everyone compares him to Kylington and Liljegren in raw point totals knowing that i does not illustrate his actual play. How come according to Grant McCagg(Bad source ik.) saying that scouts have Boqvist over Dahlin?
Further, you trust the pros over everything on a 17 year old? Pros who said Cale Makar is a generational talent?

My tip for you is that you should actually watch him play on a regular basis and you'd see exactly why us biased Swedes are hyping him up, maybe you should listen to what Swedish media, players, legends, coaches are saying about him. Or maybe they're not legit sources since everyone is biased?
Maybe, just maybe he isn't getting the recognition he deserves because he isn't in NA medias doorsteps and they don't have the luxury of accessibility like what they had of McDavid.

But, you're absolutely free to think what you want. Sorry if i indicated anything else. I'm more biased than most Swedes on Dahlin, I admit that. But like ive said, the fact that he's a in a tier over arguably the top two best defenseman in the game at a similar age is exactly why he at least deserves being discussed as a generational talent.

 

[Laineux]

If Dahlin is to be generational I want to see him do stuff we've perhaps never seen before. He should be considered the best player in SHL at the end of this year.

Every player who has dominated junior to the same extent as McDavid has immediately been one of the best players in NHL. There is no doubt that Crosby or McDavid were among the very best in the world already in their draft years. They would've torched any European league.

Maybe defencemen have different development paths but that just proves the point that they're way harder to judge.

 

[EP40 AKA Lil Wayne]

Its very hard to label a D as an generational talent. The closest to generational today would be EK and no one would of called him a generational talent at the time. Now, Dahlin is another animal compared to EK at the time but you have to regard that the next generation of D's is more of offensive minded with skill we traditionally see in C 's and W'. This swift change makes hard to compare between generations. Dahlin should therefore be compared to other prospects.

Does Dahlin separate himself enough from other D prospects to be labled generational talent? I think so. Does that make him likely to be a generational player? I dont think so, cause its seems harder for D prospects to translate their succes to NHL level. As another poster put it "Defensemen taken 1st OA rarely meet expectations. Call it a coincidence or not, it's just reality. Only one of the 13 dmen taken 1st overall was a Norris finalist or postseason AS, and that was Denis Potvin 40 years ago." More likely he will become another really good D from Sweden, which is a great outcome and the real reason he should be drafted no.1.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Shorthanded assist today.

 

[JimboA]

Shorthanded assist today.

Wasn't it even strength? Don't think I saw him on the PK. Good to see nonetheless.

 

[93LEAFS]

Wasn't it even strength? Don't think I saw him on the PK. Good to see nonetheless.

Just looking at the box score, I don't see how it could be a SH goal. The last penalty ended at 17:30 and Dahlin got the assist at 19:02.

It seems between both games he's getting close to top 4 minutes (I know icing 7 defenders changes how ice time is allocated compared to the NHL). He got 16:35 tonight, and 14:19 the first. A lot of young highly hyped Swedish D in recent years (I know Dahlin is a tier above) have had trouble cementing serious minutes in their draft season, usually hovering below 12. So, it will be interesting if he can get the type of minutes Larsson got at 17 and 18, and the minutes Hedman got in his 18 year old (late birthday) draft season.

 

[SnoopDogg]

He's not generational, McDavid is generational.

I'd say he's a franchise player, which is the tier that Eichel, Matthews, and Laine are in.

 

[JAS 39 Gripen]

He's not generational, McDavid is generational.

I'd say he's a franchise player, which is the tier that Eichel, Matthews, and Laine are in.

Who cares, only canadians can be generational anyways

 

[93LEAFS]

Who cares, only canadians can be generational anyways

No, but so far in the history of the game its only really been Canadians who have consistently been the best player in the league, outside of arguments for Ovi, Jagr, and Hasek.

Don't turn this into something that is based on Xenophobia. The season Dahlin would have to have to be considered a better prospect than McDavid, Crosby, Lindros or Lemieux at the time of their draft is just not a realistic expectation at this point.

 

[firstemperor]

He's not generational, McDavid is generational.

I'd say he's a franchise player, which is the tier that Eichel, Matthews, and Laine are in.

So would I, for now, but you have to consider the type of years those 3 had in their draft year. He has a lot to prove before he's considered in that tier. To be in that discussion, he should be tracking better than any SHL defenseman to date, really (includes Larsson, Hedman).

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Wasn't it even strength? Don't think I saw him on the PK. Good to see nonetheless.

Maybe, I don't know. Thats what I saw it listed as, might've been changed.

 

[Slimmy]

My dude, I did not compare Dahlin to Kylington or Liljegren. I specifically say Dahlin is on a different level. But even then, Kylington was putting up historical production for his age at 16, against men in the SHL. People on HF (particularly Swedes!) were saying that Kylington was better at 16 than Victor Hedman, that if he were playing in NA everyone would know that he was better than Hanifin, etc.

Again, I don't need you to wax poetic about Dahlin. I'm already a huge fan. What I need is for you to answer my questions.

Would you take Dahlin over Matthews and Eichel, without question? Would you seriously consider taking Dahlin over McDavid? McDavid is generational and it's only been three years since his draft year. If Dahlin isn't better than McDavid, then he isn't generational.

No one seriously had Eichel over McDavid. The only people who did were writers trying to get clicks, talking heads trying to sound different, and US-biased posters. If Dahlin were generational, there would be absolutely no question from anyone that he would go over Svechnikov, unless you think Svech is better than Eichel.

You're acting like Dahlin is some obscure prospect that no one has ever seen before except Swedes. It's only 9-10 months until his draft day and he's the prospective #1 overall pick. If you think that he hasn't been scouted extensively by real professional scouts that work for scouting agencies and NHL teams and don't post on HFBoards dot com, you're nuts. Unless you think that you know better than the pros. I'm not saying scouts are perfect, but I trust the pros to know if a 17 year old is a generational prospect or not. If Dahlin were a generational prospect, we'd know. What would he have to do to he labeled generational? Be better than McDavid.

No offense, but yeah, I need to hear from someone other than Swedish HF Boards posters that Dahlin is generational. No offense, but as someone who lives in NA and literally cannot watch Dahlin on a regular basis, yeah, I do depend on others reports to form an opinion on him. And no offense, but it's awfully rich for you to get snide about me needing to do that and at the same time suggesting that I just listen to you because you're definitely right.

Dahlin has a good chance ending up better than Erik Karlsson and Erik Karlsson is a better player than McDavid. I'd take him over McD if they were in the same draft.

 

[Seiza]

Dahlin has a good chance ending up better than Erik Karlsson and Erik Karlsson is a better player than McDavid. I'd take him over McD if they were in the same draft.

That's just delusional. Dahlin has proved nothing yet. For him to reach EK or even get close to where McDavid is today is a long way from certain. I am fan of Dahlin, he grew up playing for my hometown team so I have heard about him for quite some time, but let's not get carried away.

 

[Aahlstroem]

We don't even use the label generational in Sweden, can't we just skip that discussion and appriciate him for the player he is?

The assist was on a 5-on-5 goal.

And Dahlin could have had another assist from earlier in the game if Widerström had finished better.

 

[Slimmy]

That's just delusional. Dahlin has proved nothing yet. For him to reach EK or even get close to where McDavid is today is a long way from certain. I am fan of Dahlin, he grew up playing for my hometown team so I have heard about him for quite some time, but let's not get carried away.

Get carried away? I don't doubt for a second that Dahlin is going to be one of the best defenceman in the league once he adjusts to the NA game. He has the potential to be the best D in the world. We'll see if he gets there.

 

[NoMessi]

You want a frank answer? Not be a defenseman. Defensemen are much less easy to project. Two years in a row, highly hyped Swedish defensemen in Kylington and Liljegren have fallen hard. Now I'm a big believer in Dahlin, he's clearly on another level from Kylington and Liljegren at the same age, and I would be beyond shocked if he fell out of the top-2 (I would be shocked if he weren't selected #1, too), but the fact of the matter is this: the projection of 16 and 17 year old defensemen is much, much less linear than that of 16 and 17 year old forwards. There is a good reason why teams shy away from defensemen at 1st overall.

But let's keep going. What does Dahlin need to do to be considered generational? He needs to be above and beyond Svechnikov, for one; prospect people seem to be about 60-40 in Dahlin's favor as of now. Then he has to be above and beyond Eichel and Matthews, by consensus. Then there has to be a serious debate over whether people would take him over McDavid.

I am well-aware that Dahlin suffers from underexposure due to playing in Europe. But if he were as good as McDavid, people would be talking about it in those specific terms. There would, at the very, very least, be clickbait articles with the title "Is Dahlin as good as Connor McDavid?". There aren't.

This is wrong. Look at the MacAssClowns top prospect show. Its 90/10 in favor of Dahlin.

 

[NoMessi]

My dude, I did not compare Dahlin to Kylington or Liljegren. I specifically say Dahlin is on a different level. But even then, Kylington was putting up historical production for his age at 16, against men in the SHL. People on HF (particularly Swedes!) were saying that Kylington was better at 16 than Victor Hedman, that if he were playing in NA everyone would know that he was better than Hanifin, etc.

Again, I don't need you to wax poetic about Dahlin. I'm already a huge fan. What I need is for you to answer my questions.

Would you take Dahlin over Matthews and Eichel, without question? Would you seriously consider taking Dahlin over McDavid? 1. McDavid is generational and it's only been three years since his draft year. If Dahlin isn't better than McDavid, then he isn't generational.

2. No one seriously had Eichel over McDavid. The only people who did were writers trying to get clicks, talking heads trying to sound different, and US-biased posters. 3. If Dahlin were generational, there would be absolutely no question from anyone that he would go over Svechnikov, unless you think Svech is better than Eichel.

You're acting like Dahlin is some obscure prospect that no one has ever seen before except Swedes. It's only 9-10 months until his draft day and he's the prospective #1 overall pick. If you think that he hasn't been scouted extensively by real professional scouts that work for scouting agencies and NHL teams and don't post on HFBoards dot com, you're nuts. Unless you think that you know better than the pros. I'm not saying scouts are perfect, but I trust the pros to know if a 17 year old is a generational prospect or not. If Dahlin were a generational prospect, we'd know. What would he have to do to he labeled generational? Be better than McDavid.

No offense, but yeah, I need to hear from someone other than Swedish HF Boards posters that Dahlin is generational. No offense, but as someone who lives in NA and literally cannot watch Dahlin on a regular basis, yeah, I do depend on others reports to form an opinion on him. And no offense, but it's awfully rich for you to get snide about me needing to do that and at the same time suggesting that I just listen to you because you're definitely right.

1. That contradicts itself. You mean he would need to be as good as Mcdavid, not better, to be considered generational.

2. This is also wrong as well. A significant minority had Eichel as number one.

3. 90% of the scouts have Dahlin over Svechnikov, thats more than enough to be consensus.

ITS AWFULLY RICH OF YOU TO WRITE A POST WITH WRONG FACTS IN ALMOST EVERY PARAGRAPH.

And to contribute to the thread, Dahlin is a stud that was even considered for the Swedish national team in the WHC 2017.

 

[Willy Stylez]

We don't even use the label generational in Sweden, can't we just skip that discussion and appriciate him for the player he is?

The assist was on a 5-on-5 goal.

And Dahlin could have had another assist from earlier in the game if Widerström had finished better.

True, thats not a label we use in Sweden about players. Is this talk about "generational player" a north america thing?

 

[JAS 39 Gripen]

True, thats not a label we use in Sweden about players. Is this talk about "generational player" a north america thing?

At least in only applies to canadian players. If you read those threads, they (some) only list Orr, Mario, Wayne, Lindros, Crosby and McDavid as generational players. They tend to forget other players with different nationalities like Jagr, Hasek, Lidström etc.

The definitions varies a lot more, though ^^

 

[Laineux]

2. This is also wrong as well. A significant minority had Eichel as number one.

The reports were that 30/30 teams had had McDavid as their #1. That was after the draft year though.

 

[93LEAFS]

At least in only applies to canadian players. If you read those threads, they (some) only list Orr, Mario, Wayne, Lindros, Crosby and McDavid as generational players. They tend to forget other players with different nationalities like Jagr, Hasek, Lidström etc.

The definitions varies a lot more, though ^^

There's a divide between generational players such as Howe, Orr, Gretzky, and Lemieux (with a bunch of debatable guys after such as Beliveau, Bobby Hull, Richard, Hasek, Jagr, Crosby, and Ovi) and generational prospects which is just Lemieux, Lindros, Crosby, and McDavid. It's not a lock a generational prospect becomes a generational player (See Lindros). I'd say the main thing that is required is an extended run where the player is viewed as the best player in the league, which tends to be reflected through Hart and Pearson/Lindsey trophies which hurts Lidstrom's case (not a single Hart top 3 finish). Others would include team accomplishments which can hurt Jagr (was never a top 3 player on a cup winner) and Ovi.

Dahlin is a great prospect, and arguably the best defensive prospect in ages. But, it's still quite debatable if he could surpass guys such as Matthews, Eichel, and Laine from recent drafts, let alone McDavid. Do people seriously expect Dahlin to be a top 3 player in the NHL at the age of 19 like Crosby and McDavid were? Do they expect him to contend for multiple Hart trophies (remember, Karlsson hasn't finished top 3 in voting once and is in the midst of his prime). Saying he wouldn't go ahead of McDavid isn't an insult, its just McDavid was a ridiculous prospect and is likely the best player from his generation. Hence why he gets the label.

Now, since the term can get thrown around a lot now, and has been applied to Matthews, Eichel, and Laine, then you can absolutely call him generational. I just think by what the term was originally supposed to signify, that Dahlin isn't. That doesn't mean he can't be a multiple Norris winners like Lidstrom, Karlsson, or Bourque, who while all great players, were never the best player in the league.

 

[93LEAFS]

1. That contradicts itself. You mean he would need to be as good as Mcdavid, not better, to be considered generational.

2. This is also wrong as well. A significant minority had Eichel as number one.

3. 90% of the scouts have Dahlin over Svechnikov, thats more than enough to be consensus.

ITS AWFULLY RICH OF YOU TO WRITE A POST WITH WRONG FACTS IN ALMOST EVERY PARAGRAPH.

And to contribute to the thread, Dahlin is a stud that was even considered for the Swedish national team in the WHC 2017.

McDavid was 10 for 10 in the final McKenzie poll, and Eichel stopped being a serious challenger for #2 after the WJC. Eichel had 3 votes to start the year in the poll, but by January it was 10 for 10 McDavid. I don't think a single NHL team had Eichel above McDavid.

 

[PatrikBerglund]

Young defencemen are generally less of a sure thing than forwards.

Dahlin could end up anywhere from a good middle pairing defenceman to a generational Lidstromesque superhuman.

This is the reason why defencemen usually don't go first OA in the draft.