Post-Game Talk: Laine Gets 40 Not Enough - Flyers 2 Jets 1

[Duke749]

Better in what? Being constantly injured?

This is why people can’t take you serious.

 

[10Ducky10]

Most probably not at least much worse defensively. And on the other hand MUCH better offensively.

can you translate?
do you mean he is as good defensively as Enstrom?

 

[Duke749]

Most probably not at least much worse defensively. And on the other hand MUCH better offensively.

Have you not been watching the games? Our own zone play is horrible and our transition game is crap compared to when Enstrom is in the lineup.

 

[LowLefty]

I don’t think Little’s overall play has really been that bad, as I definitely admit that he has been defensively one of the best forwards that the Jets have. The problem is though that offensively he is pretty darn bad, and especially he seems to be dragging down the production for anyone who plays with him this season. Until this changes I see him as a pretty fine 3rd or 4th line center and a complete waste in the top 2 scoring lines. Unfortunately this is how it very clearly is for me at the moment.

I don’t mind if the situation changes and he starts being a productive top 2 center, but until that really happens, he should rather be in the 3rd or 4th line.

.

Wheeler isn't playing well and misses Scheif - that's Little's fault apparently.

The second line was playing well but isn't recently - and that includes Matty P who's game has dropped off significantly due to illness or what ever - that's also Little's fault

When he played with the euro's, he didn't fit the east / west game they play and Laine was struggling with his speed, quickness, and puck handling - and that Little's fault.

Little will be fine - cut him some slack at least until the lines are back to normal, the flu bug has passed and our injuries return. Show a little more respect for a guy that has played a major role with this team for a number of years -

Lastly, it's been a real pleasure watching Laine's game improve over the last few weeks - he quicker, using his size better, and there's been a huge improvement in how he is now finding space.
Part of that came from playing and learning earlier this season, with a solid 2 way center who appears to be in a bit of a slump - remind you of anyone else earlier on this season?

 

[Ippenator]

Have you not been watching the games? Our own zone play is horrible and our transition game is crap compared to when Enstrom is in the lineup.

Did I say that Enström is bad defensively? Just said that I don’t believe Niku is much worse than him. Maybe by some amount worse but not much. And I believe both would be fine defencemen for the Jets, if Enström just would stay healthy for even a few games...

 

[Duke749]

Did I say that Enström is bad defensively? Just said that I don’t believe Niku is much worse than him. Maybe my some amount worse but no much. And I believe both would be find defencemen for the Jets, if Enström just would stay healthy for even a few games...

Where did I say that you said he was bad defensively? I mean if we want to play THAT game...

Enstrom’s health has always been overblown. Even when he takes a dirty hit that resulted in a suspension people want to call him injury prone. Should we start questioning Schief’s durability now too since apparently he can’t atay healthy?

 

[Ippenator]

I know that he has been injured all year and that he is good enough to play he plays and that he is one tough SOB.

I agree. But I also see Niku already pretty close defensively to Toby. Not there yet most probably, but also not as far away as you seem to think. Also Niku is at the moment clearly a better offensive D-man. And anyway Toby has been really that much injured that I have started to question his value just because of the unpredictability that it brings to the lineup. Not when he is healthy, but when he is injured, which unfortunately happens way too often.

 

[Duke749]

I agree. But I also see Niku already pretty close defensively to Toby. Not there yet most probably, but also not as far away as you seem to think. Also Niku is at the moment clearly a better offensive D-man. And anyway Toby has been really that much injured that I have started to question his value just because of the unpredictability that it brings to the lineup. Not when he is healthy, but when he is injured, which unfortunately happens way too often.

If Niku was that good defensively he’d be up over Poolman. But the fact is he’s not close to Enstrom defensively.

 

[Adam da bomb]

But if you go by what this board usually thinks Dano and Petan should be going in over Hendricks. So, that same argument could be made for Niku that it's bad Pomo. Not that I believe that. I think it could be lots of things such as if Niku stays with the Moose right now he gets lots of minutes playing all situations versus less minutes on the third pairing only playing es.

 

[Ippenator]

If Niku was that good defensively he’d be up over Poolman. But the fact is he’s not close to Enstrom defensively.

A bit short sighted thinking really. I think Maurice values clearly that much more experience that in those kind of close cases he will rather let Niku get the hold of the North American game with the Moose and gain confidence in a safer situation for his development. Poolman is really not that bad defensively that a coach like Maurice would choose a younger and less North American experience having D-man like Niku over him at the moment.

 

[HannuJ]

I agree. But I also see Niku already pretty close defensively to Toby.

based on what?

 

[Ippenator]

based on what?

Based on how I have seen them play and what I have also heard of being said about them.

I watched Niku play a lot last season in Liiga. Also I have seen him play in two of his games for the Moose. I think Toby has been pretty good this season when he has been healthy, but it has been just way too rarely. And he was in fact last season unfortunately pretty much rubbish defensively. Of course the Jets were mostly that in general and he was quite often even then injured, if I remember correctly. But even though he has been pretty good this season, he is already 34 and with all his injuries it would most probably be better to actively look for a long time replacement. And I do believe that Niku could be a good player for that. Maybe already next season.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Enstrom is much better this year. Last year he was called for so many holding or interference penalties. It seemed like instead of going back he would only move parallel or lose a step to the forward and then have to take a penalty to make up for it.

 

[Duke749]

Based on how I have seen them play and what I have also heard of being said about them.

Yeh I don’t think you’re watching very closely.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Maybe Laine will give a even bigger discount if he gets to play with his Finnish buddy next year. If that were the case, however soon teams would be drafting star players best buds for 4th liners if it meant Mcdavid and Laine would take less money. So it's probably a dumb idea. Oh well.

 

[HannuJ]

Based on how I have seen them play and what I have also heard of being said about them.

Niku has played a total of zero nhl minutes.
so what have you seen?
and what you see differs from the consensus: his O looks great but needs to tighten up his D zone work

 

[Adam da bomb]

But bear in mind everyone instead of playing Poolman Chevy went out and got Morrow which was a dumb move. So either Niku is terrible defensively or rushing him into the line-up this year was not in the plans. Or option C) where Chevy and MO actually thought Morrow was really really good.

 

[10Ducky10]

Based on how I have seen them play and what I have also heard of being said about them.

I watched Niku play a lot last season in Liiga. Also I have seen him play in two of his games for the Moose. I think Toby has been pretty good this season when he has been healthy, but it has been just way too rarely. And he was in fact last season unfortunately pretty much rubbish defensively. Of course the Jets were mostly that in general and he was quite often even then injured, if I remember correctly. But even though he has been pretty good this season, he is already 34 and with all his injuries it would most probably be better to actively look for a long time replacement. And I do believe that Niku could be a good player for that. Maybe already next season.

I am wondering how many Moose games with Niku in the lineup have you watched?

 

[Georgetown Al]

Glad Laine hit 40...

50 or plus is a real possibility since Laine is doing all the scoring...

Were in the playoffs...

What's there to gripe about...

Go Go

 

[JetsFan815]

I am not sure what the point of pages and pages of Little discussion is. He might not be great 2 years from now but for now he has a NMC and there is literally nothing that can be done about that contract. The Jets have a great two year window this season and next season and I would try to focus on that and enjoy that rather than worry about which players the Jets might lose due to the Little contract in summer of 2020 or how much Little would still be effective in the 20-21 season. All we can do is hope that he can maintain his play long term or that his play doesn't fall off steeply enough that Chevy is still able to move that contract in 2020 or convince Seattle to take him in the 2020 XD if he is no longer a top-6 player by then.

 

[JetsFan815]

I agree. But I also see Niku already pretty close defensively to Toby.

How many games of Niku this season have you watched to arrive at this conclusion? Or do you think Toby is so bad that he is a replacement level or worse player?

 

[Ducky10]

Based on how I have seen them play and what I have also heard of being said about them.

I watched Niku play a lot last season in Liiga. Also I have seen him play in two of his games for the Moose. I think Toby has been pretty good this season when he has been healthy, but it has been just way too rarely. And he was in fact last season unfortunately pretty much rubbish defensively. Of course the Jets were mostly that in general and he was quite often even then injured, if I remember correctly. But even though he has been pretty good this season, he is already 34 and with all his injuries it would most probably be better to actively look for a long time replacement. And I do believe that Niku could be a good player for that. Maybe already next season.

Detail for us how Niku is equal or better than Enstrom defensively. In what areas specifically? What is your version of defense?

I think you vastly underrate Enstrom.

 

[puck stoppa]

Niku has played a total of zero nhl minutes.
so what have you seen?
and what you see differs from the consensus: his O looks great but needs to tighten up his D zone work

I'll be honest, he has some work to do on D side from what I've seen, but it's similar to what I felt Jmo needed to work on in the A. He's close. And I do think he's more dynamic than Jmo offensively, he's not far off the show. I think he starts next year in the A and by Xmas is in NHL a la roslo. Kid is good.

 

[Ippenator]

How many games of Niku this season have you watched to arrive at this conclusion? Or do you think Toby is so bad that he is a replacement level or worse player?

I have seen only two games that Niku played this season in the Moose. He was pretty good in those games at least. Some things for sure still need to become better. Some more intensity with his defending mostly. And sure he could use some more strength. But he was really even surprisingly good with his defending in those games.

And no, I havent said that Toby has been bad this season, although he was pretty much awful last season, but as we all know the whole Jets were worse defensively last season. But on the other hand even if Toby has been quite ok or even occasionally good this season, I don’t still see him as somekind of an amazing defensive player. He is not really irreplaceable, and as I have already mentioned I at least believe that Niku is not as far behind him defensively as some of you seem to believe. I havent though claimed that Niku is necessarily at his level yet, but just not too far away. And I believe that Niku could already offer much more with his offensive skills than what Toby can do offensively. What I just mean is that Niku could probably cover the slight difference with the defensive skills with his better offence.

I do understand that some of you long time Jets fans have unquestionable love for your vets, but when time passes they will not be always as good as you got used to, and there can be young promising guys coming that can already replace some vets with their own strengths. They dont need to be always exactly the same strengths that the vets used to have, if they can offer something else that can seriously help the team.

I would say that Little and Toby should probably be first on the line to be replaced, although they both can offer some good things still, but they have clear weaknesses too. For Toby his biggest weakness is being so damn injury prone, and for Little it is his lack of offence and playmaking for a 2nd line center. He sure can defend well and so can Toby, but they both are way too expensive for the weaknesses that they put on the table. There are younger guys whom could give better value for their salaries, so I’m just really trying to think of what would be best for the team honestly.

 

[Duke749]

Two games? Wow