Kraken 2024 Offseason chatter

[sigma six]

Honestly, even if they do bring the Sonics back I'm not sure if I'll get back into it like I was during the Payton/ Kemp era. Moving the Sonics was a last straw for me, but I'd already cooled on the NBA and the game itself by then... had been replaced by hockey.

 

[Scomerica]

Honestly, even if they do bring the Sonics back I'm not sure if I'll get back into it like I was during the Payton/ Kemp era. Moving the Sonics was a last straw for me, but I'd already cooled on the NBA and the game itself by then... had been replaced by hockey.

Almost feels like it doesn't exist here. Sports media here never talk about it. This week was the first time in years they did and that was to gauge opinions on if they be stoked, be casual fans, no interest etc.

I don't really like basketball. I guess if the Sonics were good and on a play off run i'd watch due to city pride and if a friend had a spare ticket I wouldn't say no but I wouldn't go out of my way to watch it.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

Worst kept secret ever

Yep.
Just watch that interview of King5 with Leiweke where he and the King5 guy are just giggling when talking about the Sonics.

 

[Irie]

Worst kept secret ever

Wonder what it could be.....

My guess is that they will announce they have acquired the Seattle Scone Co. and are going to run it along with the Kraken under the "Seattle Sports & Snacks" parent company conglomerate that will emerge from the acquisition

 

[kihei]

Wonder what it could be.....

My guess is that they will announce they have acquired the Seattle Scone Co. and are going to run it along with the Kraken under the "Seattle Sports & Snacks" parent company conglomerate that will emerge from the acquisition

Possible motto: "We will leave no scone unturned in our support of the Kraken."

 

[RainyCityHockey]

Wonder what it could be.....

My guess is that they will announce they have acquired the Seattle Scone Co. and are going to run it along with the Kraken under the "Seattle Sports & Snacks" parent company conglomerate that will emerge from the acquisition

Can't wait for their promotion of a big cone of barn gelato for only $24.99.....special offer...

 

[Irie]

Can't wait for their promotion of a big cone of barn gelato for only $24.99.....special offer...

Kraken Cakes hype is real...

 

[majormajor]

It almost feels like the Leafs have to move Marner now. Maybe a trade/buyout of Tavares instead, or maybe both.

 

[4thline]

It almost feels like the Leafs have to move Marner now. Maybe a trade/buyout of Tavares instead, or maybe both.

Leafs fan
If there's a rule against outsiders here let me know, but I always enjoy talking trades with the interested fanbases rather than the shitshow of the main boards.

I saw your discussions about Marner trades a few pages back, and think that there's common ground to be found.

How much does your valuation of Marner depend on whether he comes with an extension?

The idea bouncing around my head is
Marner +23 for Bjorkstrand + 8 + ?. The ? being something along the lines of one of your 2nds and one of the Rehkopf/Nyman/Goyette grouping.

Oleksiak is also interesting

 

[kihei]

Leafs fan
If there's a rule against outsiders here let me know, but I always enjoy talking trades with the interested fanbases rather than the shitshow of the main boards.

I saw your discussions about Marner trades a few pages back, and think that there's common ground to be found.

How much does your valuation of Marner depend on whether he comes with an extension?

The idea bouncing around my head is
Marner +23 for Bjorkstrand + 8 + ?. The ? being something along the lines of one of your 2nds and one of the Rehkopf/Nyman/Goyette grouping.

Oleksiak is also interesting

Can't speak for others, but I wouldn't do it even if there was no ?. I just don't want to sacrifice high draft picks or draft down just to obtain him. Our prospects pool is currently not so deep that we can afford to do that.

 

[4thline]

Can't speak for others, but I wouldn't do it even if there was no ?. I just don't want to sacrifice high draft picks or draft down just to obtain him. Our prospects pool is currently not so deep that we can afford to do that.

Ah. Fair enough. I was just looking at your prospect pool with envy and thinking that you were one of the best positioned teams too afford it.

Beniers/McCann/Wright/Marner in the NHL, and say ? was Rehkopf+ NYR 2nd you'd still have
Firkus/Sale/Nyman/Goyette + 23 + 40, not even mentioning Evans/Ottavainen/Nelson.

From the Leafs side my main goal is to get things we can't via UFA (and spend the money there), and I was thinking that between the strength of your pool, extra 2nd rounder, and the 1st coming back to keep you drafting on Day 1 their might be a fairly unique opportunity to get that high pick, but I completely understand not wanting to part with it.

That being said, there's probably a "stuff" (Gourde+Borgen + a bunch of non 8th picks and prospects) that wouldn't be infuriating- but I would be in the Leaf Minority and it would be a deal of last resort.

 

[Fuhrious]

Honest question, how many points does Marner get when he's not handcuffed to a generational talent like Matthews? Does he get as low as 60? 50? He only managed 3 points in 7 playoff games last season, but potted 14 points in 11 playoff games last season...is he picking up a rep as Tatar Jr.?

I dont know, I guess I'm just not sold on him as a player that comes in and drives play to the level of that cap hit. He doesnt feel like a pillar you build around, instead a complement to your pillar.

Without the pillar in place, I kinda hope Francis doesnt give up the keys to the Farm for him.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Honest question, how many points does Marner get when he's not handcuffed to a generational talent like Matthews? Does he get as low as 60? 50? He only managed 3 points in 7 playoff games last season, but potted 14 points in 11 playoff games last season...is he picking up a rep as Tatar Jr.?

I dont know, I guess I'm just not sold on him as a player that comes in and drives play to the level of that cap hit. He doesnt feel like a pillar you build around, instead a complement to your pillar.

Without the pillar in place, I kinda hope Francis doesnt give up the keys to the Farm for him.

I am not worried about his production going down without Matthews. My concerns are more about the lack of playoff production and his injuries. The number of GP/Season is not great. And if we are paying him that much, it wont work out.

Ah. Fair enough. I was just looking at your prospect pool with envy and thinking that you were one of the best positioned teams too afford it.

Beniers/McCann/Wright/Marner in the NHL, and say ? was Rehkopf+ NYR 2nd you'd still have
Firkus/Sale/Nyman/Goyette + 23 + 40, not even mentioning Evans/Ottavainen/Nelson.

From the Leafs side my main goal is to get things we can't via UFA (and spend the money there), and I was thinking that between the strength of your pool, extra 2nd rounder, and the 1st coming back to keep you drafting on Day 1 their might be a fairly unique opportunity to get that high pick, but I completely understand not wanting to part with it.

That being said, there's probably a "stuff" (Gourde+Borgen + a bunch of non 8th picks and prospects) that wouldn't be infuriating- but I would be in the Leaf Minority and it would be a deal of last resort.

Nothing is impossible but I don't see Francis moving our 1st out for this season. I also think he would rather move any of the other 4 forward prospects you have mentioned over Rehkopf.

1st 2025 + 2nd 2024 (NYR) + Bjorkstrand + Sale/Nyman/Goyette is maybe what he is agreeable to? Probably not enough for Marner but I just don't see Francis wanting to sacrifice much of his future for Marner.

While not quite the same level as Marner, I can see Francis being more aggressive trying to land Guentzel or Reinhart in FA.

 

[4thline]

Nothing is impossible but I don't see Francis moving our 1st out for this season. I also think he would rather move any of the other 4 forward prospects you have mentioned over Rehkopf.

1st 2025 + 2nd 2024 (NYR) + Bjorkstrand + Sale/Nyman/Goyette is maybe what he is agreeable to? Probably not enough for Marner but I just don't see Francis wanting to sacrifice much of his future for Marner.

I think this is actually quite reasonable, especially given the constraints on any Marner deal. Of course, I'd push for either/both of your 2nd vs NYR and Reh as the prospect, but that's getting to a pretty narrow margin of haggling.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I think this is actually quite reasonable, especially given the constraints on any Marner deal. Of course, I'd push for either/both of your 2nd vs NYR and Reh as the prospect, but that's getting to a pretty narrow margin of haggling.

Yeah. If you can find common ground, then you can work out a way to make the deal work. I don't consider anyone in our prospect pool as untouchable. But it simply comes back to the returning piece(s) in the trade.

I get the feeling that I value Marner much higher than a lot of folks on our boards. I don't see most of them be willing to give up either our top prospects or pick(s) for him.

 

[majormajor]

How much does your valuation of Marner depend on whether he comes with an extension?

No extension, no interest. We're not winning any trophies next year.

The idea bouncing around my head is
Marner +23 for Bjorkstrand + 8 + ?. The ? being something along the lines of one of your 2nds and one of the Rehkopf/Nyman/Goyette grouping.

Oleksiak is also interesting

Trading 1st rounders (or Rehkopf) feels like it crosses a line for us, the team just isn't good enough yet.

At the same time, we have an abundance of forward prospects and I'd be okay with including multiple of them instead.

I'm also fine with including Oleksiak. His regular season value is debatable.

I imagined you would have preferred Larsson, but Oleksiak is easier for us to give up since he's not on our top pair.

Marner for Bjorkstrand + Oleksiak + Nyman + Goyette + 2nd (40th OA).

Marner is obviously more impactful as a player than that whole package, but we'd already be paying perhaps more than he's worth in salary and cap hit, so it's hard to put more into a trade package than that.

1st 2025 + 2nd 2024 (NYR) + Bjorkstrand + Sale/Nyman/Goyette is maybe what he is agreeable to? Probably not enough for Marner but I just don't see Francis wanting to sacrifice much of his future for Marner.

I'm not sure if I like that deal more than what 4th-line proposed.

We'd have that lack of 1st rounder hanging over our heads all year if the team isn't good, and I don't think we'll be that good. Too many teams stepping up in the West.

 

[4thline]

I'm also fine with including Oleksiak. His regular season value is debatable.

I imagined you would have preferred Larsson, but Oleksiak is easier for us to give up since he's not on our top pair.

Marner for Bjorkstrand + Oleksiak + Nyman + Goyette + 2nd (40th OA).

Marner is obviously more impactful as a player than that whole package, but we'd already be paying perhaps more than he's worth in salary and cap hit, so it's hard to put more into a trade package than that.



I'm not sure if I like that deal more than what 4th-line proposed.

We'd have that lack of 1st rounder hanging over our heads all year if the team isn't good, and I don't think we'll be that good. Too many teams stepping up in the West.

Oleksiak vs. Larsson was just based on the extra year. If Larsson came with a 2-3 yr extension I'd prefer him, but don't really love the idea of either 1 and done or a long term extension. Either would work though.

I would really push for Rehkopf when we're not getting a 1st or prospect drafted in the 1st, but I think this framework is solid, same with fistful's.

Cheers

 

[dylanmacarthur]

There won’t be any truly big name signings or acquisitions. I doubt we will see a ton of activity at all.

I don’t think Francis understands that his “plan” assuming he had one isn’t working.

In an ideal world we would dump some players for picks / assets and tank for a few years. Instead I suspect we will muddle along in mediocrity.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

There won’t be any truly big name signings or acquisitions. I doubt we will see a ton of activity at all.

I don’t think Francis understands that his “plan” assuming he had one isn’t working.

In an ideal world we would dump some players for picks / assets and tank for a few years. Instead I suspect we will muddle along in mediocrity.

History is on your side here. But if Francis goes middling again, then he will be the one who is history. Either sell and load up on picks or go for it.

A lot of it is us reading into what he said after the season ended, but it did seem like he is in acquiring someone good to improve the goal scoring on the team.

 

[dylanmacarthur]

I really doubt it. He will do what he did the first three seasons and what he is programmed to do. Mediocre, uninspiring middle of the road moves to generate a middle of the road team.

I pointed this out years ago and am sadly being proven right. He failed to either load up on talent and go for it early or tank and build a strong future (my preference). Now we have a mediocre prospect pool and a bad team with minimal assets.

He must be fired ASAP.

 

[Fuhrious]

I dont have a subscription to any of these websites that rate NHL team's prospect pools...where do the "experts" purportedly rate the Kraken as far as that goes? Bottom half of the league? Middle? Top half?

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I dont have a subscription to any of these websites that rate NHL team's prospect pools...where do the "experts" purportedly rate the Kraken as far as that goes? Bottom half of the league? Middle? Top half?

I read a few that had us in the top third.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I really doubt it. He will do what he did the first three seasons and what he is programmed to do. Mediocre, uninspiring middle of the road moves to generate a middle of the road team.

I pointed this out years ago and am sadly being proven right. He failed to either load up on talent and go for it early or tank and build a strong future (my preference). Now we have a mediocre prospect pool and a bad team with minimal assets.

He must be fired ASAP.

I know you have been pretty vocal about this and have been on here regularly to critique Francis. Except for the 2022-23 season when you didn't make a single post. Maybe because the team did well that season and made the playoffs.

Either way, if you are interested in building a team, you have to be given time to do so. I don't agree with all your critiques of Francis, but he has had 3 seasons at the helm where he has done a pretty good job drafting and building our prospect pool. I would be okay with him even taking the 2024-25 season to continue building the prospect pool, but he must figure out how to be competitive by the 2025-26 season. That would mean moving parts of the team that are not our core and part of the future. Gourde, Tanev, Larsson(?), Bura, Schwartz, etc. Obviously, not trading all of them but moving pending UFAs like Gourde, Tanev, and Larsson would at least make sense.

I would be surprised if the ownership remains patient beyond that.

Edit: Slight correction you made 2 posts in October 2022 right when the season started.

 

[Scomerica]

I forgot kraken ownership and ovg are also in on the memorial stadium renovation. Always felt thst would be a prime site for the sounders/reign if they could have made it 30,000 +