News Article: Konstantinov

[Winger98]

Kulfan has a nice article up about Vladdy, the accident, and its impact. It was really the beginning of a long run of blueline instability because of freak injuries and accidents.

“I’ll say this to you, and I’m not going to sit here and tell you something like had we had Vladi we would have won another two or three Stanley Cups, for sure,†Devellano said. “But I will tell you this: I feel confident in saying we would have won one more Stanley Cup there, somewhere, with him in the lineup, and the core of players we had around him.

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[SpookyTsuki]

When exactly? He's good but I can't see him helping us in 99,00,01 to win the cup. Maybe a series. Crazy jim at it again

 

[Winger98]

He helps us each of those years, and he frees up money/assets to pursue upgrades elsewhere. Do we still go after Krupp? Do we trade for Ulf? I think we still deal for Chelly, who wouldn't? A healthy Vladdy changes a lot of how the Wings approach following years regarding where and how they allocate assets, as well as the depth and quality of their blueline.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

He helps us each of those years, and he frees up money/assets to pursue upgrades elsewhere. Do we still go after Krupp? Do we trade for Ulf? I think we still deal for Chelly, who wouldn't? A healthy Vladdy changes a lot of how the Wings approach following years regarding where and how they allocate assets, as well as the depth and quality of their blueline.

I mean sure but that's a Bunch of ifs he was good but a lot of those years were letdowns. And the pointn that Jim is crazy still stands. Without the ifs it's a big NO. If he remembers exactly what he was gonna do if it didn't happen like 20 years later yeah you're crazy

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

When exactly? He's good but I can't see him helping us in 99,00,01 to win the cup. Maybe a series. Crazy jim at it again

If the Wings beat Colorado in 99 or 2000, they stand a good chance of winning it all.
If Vladdy plays in 2001 (provided the rest of their acquisitions stayed exactly the same... they wouldn't, but we're playing the hypothetical game), you don't think he'd impact one or more of those one-goal games the Wings lost?

 

[SpookyTsuki]

If the Wings beat Colorado in 99 or 2000, they stand a good chance of winning it all.
If Vladdy plays in 2001 (provided the rest of their acquisitions stayed exactly the same... they wouldn't, but we're playing the hypothetical game), you don't think he'd impact one or more of those one-goal games the Wings lost?

Colorado lost to dallas and beat Detroit in 5. Then Colorado lost to dallas who lost to New Jersey. So a big no for 2000 and I would say no to 1999 I don't care about the one goal games they still lost in 5. I don't think another lidstrom there would really guarantee another cup. Bad goaltending was the problem back then right? Yeah Konstantinov isn't a goalie

 

[njx9]

Yeah Konstantinov isn't a goalie

I mean, you're right, but generally Norris-level defensemen can have a pretty positive effect on your overall defense.

I don't think it's a sure thing, but it's hard to imagine that having him on the ice would've done anything but make the team significantly better.

 

[Retire91]

I think the wings picking up Chelios effectively covered Konstantinov's presence I don't know that Konstantinov would have changed the wings cup fortunes although it would be nice to not have to trade away assets in order to fill the hole. Chicago never really benefited from the assets we traded for him but maybe we could have had better fortune with those two first rounders.

Lidstrom and Konstantinov have to be one of the best defensive pairings to ever play? Its crazy how gritty Konstantinov was but rarely if ever took a bad penalty.

I don't know if I ever posted this but I was once doing some volunteer city cleanup and we took a break in a lobby of one of the city's municipal buildings. They had a bunch of PSA posters near a peg board and there was one with a picture of Konstantinov, you know those pictures the size of the pullout posters they used to have in the freepress. This one was a PSA that said 'no matter how tough you are always where your seatbelt'. Obviously it was published before the accident. I wanted to tear it off the wall and throw it away.

 

[lilidk]

Man has whopping +50 rating just one season

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Colorado lost to dallas and beat Detroit in 5. Then Colorado lost to dallas who lost to New Jersey. So a big no for 2000 and I would say no to 1999 I don't care about the one goal games they still lost in 5. I don't think another lidstrom there would really guarantee another cup. Bad goaltending was the problem back then right? Yeah Konstantinov isn't a goalie

The Wings won Cups (plural) with Chris Osgood in net.

Bad goaltending is a convenient excuse. Have a healthy Vladdy... the Wings control the puck enough that the **** goaltending doesn't matter.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Colorado lost to dallas and beat Detroit in 5. Then Colorado lost to dallas who lost to New Jersey. So a big no for 2000 and I would say no to 1999 I don't care about the one goal games they still lost in 5. I don't think another lidstrom there would really guarantee another cup. Bad goaltending was the problem back then right? Yeah Konstantinov isn't a goalie

Weird argument to make. Colorado was Detroit's Kryptonite in a lot of ways back then. If we could beat them I don't see us losing to many other teams with those Wings teams.

 

[Frk It]

It was really the beginning of a long run of blueline instability because of freak injuries and accidents.

Odd argument to try and make. The blue line was stable for as long as Nick Lidstrom was on this team. It's only been unstable the last 5 years or so, and there are no excuses for that.

 

[stu the grim reaper]

would they have repeated without the limo accident?

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Weird argument to make. Colorado was Detroit's Kryptonite in a lot of ways back then. If we could beat them I don't see us losing to many other teams with those Wings teams.

Yeah but Detroit also lost 2 other teams. Colorado wasn't the only one.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

would they have repeated without the limo accident?

I doubt it. They literally played that season in dedication to him.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I'm all for a good intangible story... but the Red Wings won in 1998 because they were still a damn loaded team. They didn't win because they were "playing for Vladdy". They won because they had more talent than 95% of teams and were on equal talent footing with the other 5%.

 

[PelagicJoe]

We absolutely would have had at least one more cup in there had Vladimir played a full career, IMO. Having an extra defender at the level he was is a big advantage.

 

[stu the grim reaper]

I'm all for a good intangible story... but the Red Wings won in 1998 because they were still a damn loaded team. They didn't win because they were "playing for Vladdy". They won because they had more talent than 95% of teams and were on equal talent footing with the other 5%.

we they not loaded in 1999?

 

[stu the grim reaper]

He helps us each of those years, and he frees up money/assets to pursue upgrades elsewhere. Do we still go after Krupp? Do we trade for Ulf? I think we still deal for Chelly, who wouldn't? A healthy Vladdy changes a lot of how the Wings approach following years regarding where and how they allocate assets, as well as the depth and quality of their blueline.

i don't know if chelios becomes a red wing without the loss of konstantinov...
i seem to remember it as an attempt to "fill the void." also we gave up 3 first rounders and cheli was 37...thats a desperation move

also how do we know vladdy would've continued to help the team? what if he lost his skill, or his motivation, or his edge, or he couldn't play in the league once obstruction rules got reformed, or what if someone shortened his career with a dirty hit

there are lots of players who would've seemed like future HHOFers after a couple great seasons...dion phaneuf comes to mind

 

[Winger98]

i don't know if chelios becomes a red wing without the loss of konstantinov...
i seem to remember it as an attempt to "fill the void." also we gave up 3 first rounders and cheli was 37...thats a desperation move

also how do we know vladdy would've continued to help the team? what if he lost his skill, or his motivation, or his edge, or he couldn't play in the league once obstruction rules got reformed, or what if someone shortened his career with a dirty hit

there are lots of players who would've seemed like future HHOFers after a couple great seasons...dion phaneuf comes to mind

Then we don't get Chelios, though I think we pursue that deal regardless. I don't see it as a desperation move, but just the sort of thing the Wings could do then because their wallet made up for the lack of picks. More likely we don't trade for Ulf, sign Uwe, sign Hatcher, etc. If we don't go after Chelly, maybe we're more in play for Borque, too. A Lids-Borque pairing would have been a thing of beauty.

I also just don't buy that Konstantinov was just going to become complacent and not be the player he always was. Phaneuf came up and had a couple of big years in his early 20s before his play started to slip a bit to where it is now (which is still better than given credit for). Vladdy was 30 at the time of the accident. Yeah, his play would slip a bit with age, as most do, but he wasn't going to become a shell of his former self - especially not within the next three years.

Odd argument to try and make. The blue line was stable for as long as Nick Lidstrom was on this team. It's only been unstable the last 5 years or so, and there are no excuses for that.

We signed Krupp, who screwed up his back. That season we traded for Ulf and Chelly. We signed Hatcher who screwed up his knee. We dealt for Schneider. We lost Fischer to a heart ailment.

Yeah, Lids was a rock back there for 30+ minutes a night. The rest of that blueline was often a mash unit that Holland&Co. had to constantly try patching to keep that blueline going and running guys like Lilja, Bykov, and Dandeneult out as Lids' partner because he had to carry the weak link for the rest of the blueline not to be exposed.

 

[Retire91]

I forgot how old Chelios was when he came over because he played so long. He was another one of those father time players like Jagr.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

we they not loaded in 1999?

They were. But so was Colorado... and Dallas. I mean, Washington was loaded for ****ing bear this year and they didn't win. Just because you've got a stacked team doesn't mean that you win all the time.

 

[PelagicJoe]

They were. But so was Colorado... and Dallas. I mean, Washington was loaded for ****ing bear this year and they didn't win. Just because you've got a stacked team doesn't mean that you win all the time.

Be that as it may, a top 4 of Lidstrom, Murphy, Vlad the Impaler, and Fetisov is hard for me to bet against.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Be that as it may, a top 4 of Lidstrom, Murphy, Vlad the Impaler, and Fetisov is hard for me to bet against.

Exactly.

Hell, it was hard/impossible to bet against them in 1995, even though Jersey swept them.

The Wings were absolutely stacked from 95-lockout. Any year they didn't make the Finals or win the Finals was a disappointment.

However, most of the times they lost in the late 90s were to the equally stacked Avalanche.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Odd argument to try and make. The blue line was stable for as long as Nick Lidstrom was on this team. It's only been unstable the last 5 years or so, and there are no excuses for that.

Yeah i agree. Your foundation is rock solid when you have a 60+ point top three all time defenseman able to play 30+ minutes a night without skipping a beat.

As for Devellano's comments, i think it's really tough to make that argument. Too many variables.