montreal said:
Really, tell me what type of defenseman Mark Eaton is. Tell me his pluses and minus. Is he an offensive defenseman? Can he shut down top forwards?
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Really, tell me what type of defenseman Mark Eaton is. Tell me his pluses and minus. Is he an offensive defenseman? Can he shut down top forwards?
Enoch
This is my boomstick
db23 said:
He played regular minutes in the NHL and was considerably worse than Dan Hamhuis at an older age. Your points are indefensible and lack substance. Use something to back up your biased opinions for once. Even though I am a Nashville fan, I at least acknowledge that to have a reasonable debate - one has to offer up something signficant. The only thing you offer up is statistics from inferior leagues, which are often out-dated an irrelevant to the discussion, and to be blunt, Hamhuis was no slouch in the leagues he played in either.
As for the depth situation in Montreal, give me a break. Rookie mistakes or not, if a player is significantly better than those in front of him, the coach is going to play him. When you have veterans that are, let me phrase this nicely, awful, then it should really be of no consequence when a youthful player steps up and overtakes them. In fact, it should be welcomed. However, if the youthful player is relatively on par with the bad veterans, THEN you start the veteran
. I think this has been the case with Komisarek thus far, at least, according to Hab fans, until the playoffs where he supposedly stepped up his game.
montreal
Go Habs Go
triggrman said:
Just stick to hockey please it's not hard to do. Any scout with his weight in salt will tell you both Komisarek and Hamhuis are very good prospects, don't take some posters opinions personally and think it's an attack on Nashville, and vice verse, no need to take shots at the Habs because you disagree with a few posters.
montreal
Go Habs Go
triggrman said:
Eaton is an offensive defensemen, no he can't shut down top line forwards due to a lack of upper body strength. He's mistake prone in his own end, although a good skater and a decent shot. Should put up the points but not a guy you want late in the game to hold a lead. I was surprised the flyers moved him, as I thought they could use his offensive game.
montreal said:
417 TO MTL said:
I'm sorry, what did you say?
Now on to Eaton.
Eaton is Nashville's top defensive defenseman, this past year. He's on of the strongest players on the team thanks to offseason work outs that added close to 20 pounds of weight. He was our shut down guy, and was never used in an offensive role.
Thanks for playing.
montreal said:
I don't think you're terribly familiar with the way Eaton played last season for Nashville if you think any comparison between them is 'funny'. Both guys averaged 21 min/game as #3 defenders for their respective teams. Markov is much better offensively. Eaton is much, much better defensively. He's big, skates well, is exceptionally poised, and just doesn't make mistakes at all (or at least it seems like it) despite playing against the opposition's top lines most nights. Something like a younger Keith Carney. If I had to choose between adding Markov or Eaton to my team, I'd take Eaton in a heartbeat.
montreal
Go Habs Go
triggrman said:
Not the Eaton I saw in philly. I live outside and philly and I'm from Delaware, so I known of Eaton for some time. If he's your top defensive defensemen then either he improved a ton since his philly days or your team is lacking a true defensive defensemen. As for one of the strongest, his body frame doesn't look all that imposing, so I don't see how he got that much stronger physically, cause that's very tough to do.
If you think Eaton is anywhere near Markov good for you, but unless he's improved about 150%, I doubt it.
Enoch
This is my boomstick
montreal said:
Ironically, he has become our rock defensively. Last year, I would agree with your assumption, but this year he evolved into a true shut-down defenseman...one the Preds sorely lack. He bulked up about 15-20 pounds before the start of last year, and he was able to handle the bigger opponents. His offensive game, remained largely unused (which is another irony), as he was paired with Kimmo and told to focus on defense. That being said, he is pretty good offensively (after all that was his original strength). If there is a knock against him, I would say that although good at shutting down offensive players, he is still not bulky enough to clear the crease. Actually, no one on the Predators could really clear the crease last year until we acquired Shane Hnidy
. Still, defensively he was almost unmatched on the Preds last year, and physically he could contain the larger players in the league with an ability that we really haven't had in Nashville up to this point. I would go so far to say that he was one of the main reasons we were able to make the playoffs as a team. Otherwise, we would have been unable as a defense to stop the opposing teams top lines.
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montreal
Go Habs Go
MS said:
Good for you, that you like Eaton. Maybe he got a hell of a lot better then his philly days, but Markov is our #1 guy and is also very good in his own end. I don't think Eaton is much much better then Markov, as he was prone to mistakes in his own end, whereas Markov is an excellent stick checker and reads plays very well.
Komisarek made the NHL before Hamhuis did, if you want to go that route. When the Habs defence was hit by injuries they called him up in February of 2003 and he played 21 games while Hamhuis was still struggling in the AHL. Last season, the Montreal defence was healthy for most of the year, the only player to miss significant time was left side defenceman Souray. As a result, Komisarek averaged only 12 minutes a game in about half a season's worth of games. He did beat out two veterans who were starters on two other teams beside Montreal in Dykhuis and Traverse. Dykhuis was a starter in Chicago and Philadelphia before coming to Montreal. Traverse was a starter in Ottawa and Boston before coming to Montreal. Both were sent to the AHL even though they had one way contracts. So was Ron Hainsey who was an All American, AHL All Star and AHL All Rookie selection prior to joining the Habs. Komisarek also earned both nominations as a rookie (All Star starter) and was an AHL All Star again last season despite just playing 18 games in Hamilton. He was also selected as the Sporting News and Hockey News Minor League Player of the Year after the 2002-2003 season. I don't think Hamhuis won any awards or made any select teams in the AHL.
montreal
Go Habs Go
Enoch said:Ironically, he has become our rock defensively. Last year, I would agree with your assumption, but this year he evolved into a true shut-down defenseman...one the Preds sorely lack. He bulked up about 15-20 pounds before the start of last year, and he was able to handle the bigger opponents. His offensive game, remained largely unused (which is another irony), as he was paired with Kimmo and told to focus on defense. That being said, he is pretty good offensively (after all that was his original strength). If there is a knock against him, I would say that although good at shutting down offensive players, he is still not bulky enough to clear the crease. Actually, no one on the Predators could really clear the crease last year until we acquired Shane Hnidy
Then I stand corrected, if he really did improve that much over one year. Anytime I saw Nashville, he didn't look bigger or stonger to me, and being as though I live in Delaware I usually hear a lot about him since he's one of the only guys to ever make the NHL from the first state.
montreal said:
He is a hell of a lot better than in Philly. I thought he was s*** prior to this year, too. But he was absolutely terrific for Nashville last year, and I'd take the sort of play he showed over Markov's game any day of the week.
It happens - Souray didn't do much of anything prior to last season to show he was anything more than an injury-prone third-pairing banger. Same sort of turnaround happened with Eaton.
Now I know why the Habs stole & drafted Corey Locke. Cause he was the CHL player of the year & sure to be a star in the NHL cause of all the awards he has accumulated.db23 said:
montreal
Go Habs Go
MS said:
Souray showed flashes but couldn't stay healthy. In '02 he was great in the playoffs against Boston and especially Thorton. I do see now that Eaton had a great season numbers wise, but that's one good season. Mike Ribeiro had a great season to, but it doesn't make him that much better, as one season can be a fluke. Not saying it will or won't be since we likely won't be seeing any hockey for a long long time anyways.
I still can't see how Eaton is that much better then Markov in his own, as Markov did regress at the start of the year (his dad died early on in the year) but aside from numbers, Markov is very good and to me the guy I want out there to hold a lead late in the game. If Eaton has improved this much and can continue this way, that's great for him, Nashville and Delaware since they could use a guy in the NHL.
montreal said:
Icetime after making the team out of training camp, 2002:
17:45
12:02
14:11
16:25
15:30
He goes -5 in those 5 games, sees his icetime cut roughly in half for another stretch of games, then is sent back to the AHL.
Icetime after making team out of training camp, 2003:
18:59
15:20
16:53
14:23
16:24
Struggles with the problems you mention, sees his icetime cut back, and then spends the rest of the year in the AHL.
Hainsey's struggles to stick have nothing to do with opportunity and everything to do with performance. In each of the last two years, he's been given a roster spot out of training camp and 15+ minutes of icetime to work with, and then proceeded to struggle with those responsibilities. Montreal is not trying to bring him along slowly, he's just developing slowly.
Beukeboom Fan
Registered User
db23 said:
It wouldn't have anything to do with the likelyhood that you would have a hard time giving Rivet or Brisebois away with their current contracts?
Habs4Life
Registered User
This thread is a freaking joke.. Comparing Markov to Eaton is like comparing a Corvette to a Chevette...
nomorekids
The original, baby
montreal said:
that's kind of the problem. You're basing your judgement of Mark Eaton on what you KNEW of him...and Mark Eaton, in ONE SUMMER took such a huge step forward that even PREDS fans couldn't believe it. He went from being referred to as "Question Mark" and being called to be sent to the AHL...to being our absolute best defensive d-man. He was called upon to bulk up..he did. He was called upon to hit the weight room....he did that to the point that he turned down an offer to play for the US world championship team just so that he could do nothing but get stronger. He was called upon to go from being an offensive defenseman and turn to being a strictly stay at home guy, so that he could be paired with Timonen. What did he have last year? 15 points? and yet he somehow managed to set a Nashville record with a PLUS SIXTEEN rating. He was out EVERY night against the top lines, and shut down the likes of Naslund, Tkachuk, Bertuzzi and so forth. He was not only "prone to making mistakes in his own end," he almost never did. I can't actually think of one noticeable "bad play" he made...all of last year. So..unless you watched him a good amount last year...it's unfair to judge him, because there really was that much of a difference. I will go as far as to say... Eaton is the best PURELY DEFENSIVE d-man on either team, Nashville or Montreal. You can go on about how Markov will put better numbers up..and he will...but if you want a shut down guy, Eaton is the man for either team.
Don't be so hard on Leopold. Not that there is anything wrong with a Chevette. Handy, economical, little units. I realize that Jordan was probably a lot cheaper to "run" as a "second hand", second round pick, but he does the job to the best of his ability.
db23 said:
Try watching hockey sometime. You are really embarassing yourself and Habs fans with comments like this. Either you're a complete homer or you just don't have a clue at all about players like Leopold and Pitkanen.
What a joke.....you are.
nomorekids said:Location:where old thought live new and are oddly bodified......
Says it all I think.
Flames Draft Watcher said:What a joke.....QUOTE]
Niklas Sundblad, Jesper Mattson, Chris O'Sullivan, Pavel Smirnov, Travis Bigley, Chris Dingman, Daniel Tkachuk, Brent Krahn, Oleg Saprykin, Chuck Kobasew.....
No wonder you're a bitter person....
montreal
Go Habs Go
MS said:
I should have looked up his ice times. In '02, those numbers average 15:02 and in '03 16:16. I do agre he is developing slowly cause he doesn't seem to have the smarts to match his skills. My bad on the ice time, I never thought he saw over 16 minutes a game, I was wrong there as he did a few times.
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