Komisarek versus Every Other Defenceman...

[Orange]

Actually, it's a disavantage these days, considering how almost every prospect with a high potential gets shot down here just cause he's a Hab...

Well, that's a reaction to habs fan, not habs prospects ...

 

[417]

Well, that's a reaction to habs fan, not habs prospects ...

That's false...I remember the comments about players like Balej and Garon before they were traded, Balej was nothing but a fringe player and Garon was nothing but a backup goalie, now Balej is a top prospect and ROY favorite and Garon is the man that will bring the Kings back to glory...

I won't claim that certain Habs posters don't embellish our prospects expectations, cause they do...but some non Habs fans posters continue to discredit some of the Habs prospects simply because they're Habs property, they offer no arguments supporting they're opinion...the way everyone on this board is obsessed with physical attributes, I'm very surprised that everyone underrates Komisarek so much, he's improved every year and has suffered no setbacks since he was drafted, had he been on other team, he would probably be ahed of his current development, but that dosen't mean he's not going to develop...if he were on any other team, i'm pretty sure he'd be better regarded on these boards

Usually on these boards a defenseman who is 6"4 235lbs, can skate, hit, shoot, pass and has great leadership qualities is a keeper.

I don't see what this guy has done to make everyone doubt his potential? If anything he's shown consistent improvement since he was drafted...

 

[Flames Draft Watcher]

I guess it depends if you're talking about now, or in the future and over the course of their careers. Granted, most of these kids are ahead of Komisarek at this point, partly because they have been playing the game longer, and partly because they have less competition to overcome at the NHL level. But I think that he will catch and pass them all at some point. If I had to choose a single defenceman 22 or under to start a franchise with it would be Mike.

HOMER *cough* HOMER

Sorry but that statement is completley indefensible. Obviously a HUGE amount of bias is coming into play.

As the preds fan says, you're singlehandedley doing a lot to reinforce the Habs fans are homers belief.

Komisarek the best defensemen 22 or under? Give me a break. Obviously you can't take off the homer gogles. Man you sure know how to embarass yourself...

 

[SmokeyClause]

HOMER *cough* HOMER

Sorry but that statement is completley indefensible. Obviously a HUGE amount of bias is coming into play.

As the preds fan says, you're singlehandedley doing a lot to reinforce the Habs fans are homers belief.

Komisarek the best defensemen 22 or under? Give me a break. Obviously you can't take off the homer gogles. Man you sure know how to embarass yourself...

The thing is, I wouldn't be suprised if he's never seen Komisarek play. He probably has, but his arguments have always been based on pure numbers rather than anything else. He'd make the same argument a non-NHL fan would make if forced to present a case for Komisarek: Look at the numbers two years ago. Look how big he is. He's so inexperienced. He has so much NHL experience (can't say they are talented) in front of him in the Habs organization.

A player like Hamhuis has done quite a bit more in the NHL already. Hamhuis is almost a year younger (11 months) and had as many points in the game in Pittsburgh as Komisarek has had for his career. And if you are going to make the argument that Komisarek has had much better competition for a spot on the team, I'd argue that he's had much better D partners too. That would certainly account for something.

And I don't buy the RD/LD debate either. If he was good enough, they'd find him a spot on the ice. Hamhuis played different sides (although he did settle down) for a while because he was so good we wanted him on the ice. Apparently Komisarek isn't

 

[nomorekids]

Actually, it's a disavantage these days, considering how almost every prospect with a high potential gets shot down here just cause he's a Hab...

the operative word is "high potential."

many of these players are average prospects, but you'd think they're all blue chip guys, listening to some of you.

and as for Balej...you are seriously delusional if you don't think he was hyped by montreal fans. Just look at how many people had Balej usernames. I'd like to see what would happen if Chipchura or Higgins was traded. They'd go from being "heart and soul glue guys with some scoring punch" to "average third liners" in a heartbeat.

 

[Aarex]

A player like Hamhuis has done quite a bit more in the NHL already. Hamhuis is almost a year younger (11 months) and had as many points in the game in Pittsburgh as Komisarek has had for his career. And if you are going to make the argument that Komisarek has had much better competition for a spot on the team, I'd argue that he's had much better D partners too. That would certainly account for something.

I hate when people fight over which player is better ect.

I'm not disputing anything that Hamhuis has accomplished, but I will say that I would take Komisarek over him.

The reasons for this have been posted about 8 times already so there is no point.

however, when you start talking about points you have to include games played and time on ice.

Hamhuis had a average ice time last season of about 22 minutes a game, which was good enough to achieve 2nd most time among defensemen for his team

Komisarek had a average ice time last season of about 14 minutes a game.

That is a Huge difference.

 

[nomorekids]

I hate when people fight over which player is better ect.

I'm not disputing anything that Hamhuis has accomplished, but I will say that I would take Komisarek over him.

The reasons for this have been posted about 8 times already so there is no point.

however, when you start talking about points you have to include games played and time on ice.

Hamhuis had a average ice time last season of about 22 minutes a game, which was good enough to achieve 2nd most time among defensemen for his team

Komisarek had a average ice time last season of about 14 minutes a game.

That is a Huge difference.

There is a huge difference. Hamhuis earned that time, after fighting his way on to the team...something he wasn't expected to do. He wasn't made one of our top defensemen because we had no one else...he was made one of our top defensemen because he was that good.

 

[db23]

That is what these boards are about, isn't it. Certain fans defend their prospect and diminish other prospects. Nothing wrong with that. If you are a fan of a certain team, chances are you know more about their prospects so you use that to make the point that the guy will do well. Or not, if you feel he isn't so good. As a Habs fan, I don't think all of their prospects are going to do great. There are some that I think were flat out mistakes when they were drafted.

Komisarek is the young defenceman I would take over all the others, flat out. Others may turn out to have better careers, but given the choice at this particular time he is the guy I would take.

 

[nomorekids]

That is what these boards are about, isn't it. Certain fans defend their prospect and diminish other prospects. Nothing wrong with that. If you are a fan of a certain team, chances are you know more about their prospects so you use that to make the point that the guy will do well. Or not, if you feel he isn't so good. As a Habs fan, I don't think all of their prospects are going to do great. There are some that I think were flat out mistakes when they were drafted.

Komisarek is the young defenceman I would take over all the others, flat out. Others may turn out to have better careers, but given the choice at this particular time he is the guy I would take.

Don't get me wrong...I agree with most of what you just said. Everyone does seem to overrate their own prospects\know more about them...but you'll notice, back in the Hamhuis\Komisarek thread...MOST people would take Hammer first, not just Preds fans. Komi is a great prospect...and I'd probably take him over some of the first rounds guys this year...Valabik, Smid, even Thelen...but to compare him to guys like Bouwemeester, Pitkanen, Hamhuis...even Phaneuf and Suter...is kind of crazy. I'd rank Komisarek more around the area of Coburn...and man, that's not half bad.

 

[417]

the operative word is "high potential."

many of these players are average prospects, but you'd think they're all blue chip guys, listening to some of you.

and as for Balej...you are seriously delusional if you don't think he was hyped by montreal fans. Just look at how many people had Balej usernames. I'd like to see what would happen if Chipchura or Higgins was traded. They'd go from being "heart and soul glue guys with some scoring punch" to "average third liners" in a heartbeat.

You obviously didn't take the time to read my post...I said that Balej was underrated by OTHER posters here, not Habsfans, we hyped him up during the whole year last year because he was tearing up the AHL, and we would get bombed on this board about the potential of Balej, as soon as he's traded, he's now a favorite to win ROY...

 

[Aarex]

There is a huge difference. Hamhuis earned that time, after fighting his way on to the team...something he wasn't expected to do. He wasn't made one of our top defensemen because we had no one else...he was made one of our top defensemen because he was that good.

Like i said, I wasn't disputing what Hamhuis had achieved.

But, you can't quote offensive production without directly relating ice time.

Also, I wouldn't Put Mike up there with Joni or Dion.

I would say
Joni= Potential Franchise player & Norris winner.
Dion= Potential #1 Defenseman on a very strong defensive team, Possible Norris winner.
Mike= Probable #2 defensemen, if he can polish his Offensive skills #1 defensemen and after that possible norris canditate.
Dan= #3/4 defensemen with the possibility of getting to #2

And since we are on the topic, I wouldn't put Hamhuis in the league with Phaneuf/Pitkanen, I would put him with with Komisarek, Coburn.

But that is again IMO, which matters about as much as DB23's opinion.

 

[triggrman]

Like i said, I wasn't disputing what Hamhuis had achieved.

But, you can't quote offensive production without directly relating ice time.

Also, I wouldn't Put Mike up there with Joni or Dion.

I would say
Joni= Potential Franchise player & Norris winner.
Dion= Potential #1 Defenseman on a very strong defensive team, Possible Norris winner.
Mike= Probable #2 defensemen, if he can polish his Offensive skills #1 defensemen and after that possible norris canditate.
Dan= #3/4 defensemen with the possibility of getting to #2

And since we are on the topic, I wouldn't put Hamhuis in the league with Phaneuf/Pitkanen, I would put him with with Komisarek, Coburn.

But that is again IMO, which matters about as much as DB23's opinion.

I would say Hamhuis has franchise player potential, he also has Norris potential.

Right not, Komisarek hasn't even solidified himself as a NHL regular.

 

[Moskau]

Right not, Komisarek hasn't even solidified himself as a NHL regular.

Exactly, for all the hype Komisarek got he should have been a regular on the Montreal blueline.

Players like Hamhuis, Pitkanen, Leopold etc. did, and on what I'd consider better defenses.

 

[montreal]

I would say Hamhuis has franchise player potential, he also has Norris potential.

Right not, Komisarek hasn't even solidified himself as a NHL regular.

He has, if there was a season. Komisarek was brought along slowly, as the Habs do with all their rookies. Ribeiro, Ryder, Markov, Garon, Hossa, Hainsey, Komisarek, Ward. These guys all spent time in and out of the lineup between the NHL and AHL over parts of different seasons. What many people don't realize is the pressure that's in Habland. You may think you understand it, but unless your in attendence, or around the city, it's hard to understand what hockey means there and what pressure there is to win from both French and Anglo media and fans. I'm not knocking any team, but the pressure is like no other since you get it from two sides.

So the Habs bring their rookies along slowly. This does not mean the prospects aren't as good as other prospects, as they all have learning curves to go through, but that the coaching staff/management will take their time. (especially since it was thought they may have ruined Mike Ribeiro's career by bringing him up as a 19 year old, which they haven't done since)

This makes it difficult to compare our prospects with other prospects, since they just don't get a lot of time, and often seem to play on egg shells as any mistake will likely end them in the pressbox.

As for Komisarek, he is an NHL regular. Towards the end of the season his play improved and he saw more and more ice time as a result. In the playoffs he was very good, thus his ice time improved to the top pairing with Souray. Gainey traded Quintal this summer after telling him he lost his spot to Komisarek, if not he would only have 2 RH's defensemen in Brezzy (who always misses some time each year) and Rivet.

Its fun to say my prospect is better then yours and vice versa, but in the end it's all pointless as it only matter what they do on the ice.

 

[db23]

Exactly, for all the hype Komisarek got he should have been a regular on the Montreal blueline.

Players like Hamhuis, Pitkanen, Leopold etc. did, and on what I'd consider better defenses.

That's crap. Komisarek was a regular by the end of the season, he put Quintal on the bench. It is no small thing to put a 15 year veteran who is one of the team leaders on the bench in the playoffs. None of the others managed anythign close to that.

Timmonen is the only Nashville defenceman who would be playing regularly in Montreal. Hamhuis wouldn't. The guy was about -30 over the season if I recall. Neither Pitkanen nor Leopold would be playing regularly for the Habs either. Ron Hainsey is better than Leopold. As an NCAA soph, prior to turning pro, Hainsey was much better than Leopold. During the playoffs, Komisarek was playing more minutes per game than Pitkanen, who was strictly an offensive specialist.

Being an effective NHL defenseman is not simply taking the puck and rushing it up the ice, which is what the three you mention do most of the time.

 

[Sammy*]

. Ron Hainsey is better than Leopold. .

If only words could be used without getting me banned.
I cant recall, but was Hainsey picked to play for the US in the World Cup?

 

[triggrman]

That's crap. Komisarek was a regular by the end of the season, he put Quintal on the bench. It is no small thing to put a 15 year veteran who is one of the team leaders on the bench in the playoffs. None of the others managed anythign close to that.

Timmonen is the only Nashville defenceman who would be playing regularly in Montreal. Hamhuis wouldn't. The guy was about -30 over the season if I recall. Neither Pitkanen nor Leopold would be playing regularly for the Habs either. Ron Hainsey is better than Leopold. As an NCAA soph, prior to turning pro, Hainsey was much better than Leopold. During the playoffs, Komisarek was playing more minutes per game than Pitkanen, who was strictly an offensive specialist.

Being an effective NHL defenseman is not simply taking the puck and rushing it up the ice, which is what the three you mention do most of the time.

Funny Boulioun was cut by Nashville and made Montreal's team.

Bill Houlder was beat out of a job because of Hamhuis.

If you think Hamhuis is just an offensive defenseman you haven't watched him play.

Zidlicky and Timoenen our Nashville's offensive defensemen and both would easily make the Habs.

 

[417]

That's crap. Komisarek was a regular by the end of the season, he put Quintal on the bench. It is no small thing to put a 15 year veteran who is one of the team leaders on the bench in the playoffs. None of the others managed anythign close to that.

Timmonen is the only Nashville defenceman who would be playing regularly in Montreal. Hamhuis wouldn't. The guy was about -30 over the season if I recall. Neither Pitkanen nor Leopold would be playing regularly for the Habs either. Ron Hainsey is better than Leopold. As an NCAA soph, prior to turning pro, Hainsey was much better than Leopold. During the playoffs, Komisarek was playing more minutes per game than Pitkanen, who was strictly an offensive specialist.

Being an effective NHL defenseman is not simply taking the puck and rushing it up the ice, which is what the three you mention do most of the time.

Good post...but your going to get flamed for that Ron Hainsey comment

 

[Freaky Habs Fan]

If only words could be used without getting me banned.
I cant recall, but was Hainsey picked to play for the US in the World Cup?

He wasen't...Leopold is probably better then Hainsey but if Ron can reach his potential, he could be a star in the NHL and be as good as Jordan...

The problem with that is: IF

 

[db23]

Leopold is older and has more NHL experience. Hainsey was an All Star and All American as a soph. Leopold never managed that. Hainsey turned pro the following year or he would have been in the Hobey hunt as a junior and senior. Say what you want, Hainsey is at least as good as Leopold.

 

[417]

Funny Boulioun was cut by Nashville and made Montreal's team.

Bill Houlder was beat out of a job because of Hamhuis.

If you think Hamhuis is just an offensive defenseman you haven't watched him play.

Zidlicky and Timoenen our Nashville's offensive defensemen and both would easily make the Habs.

Well I doubt Nashville had Bouillon in their plans considering they already had a small d-man in Timonen, not to mention Zidlicky isin't the biggest d-man either, so that has to do with circumstances more than anything.

The point is, had Komisarek been drafted by Nashville and Hamhuis by Montreal, we'd be talking about Hamhuis being overrated and how Komisarek had a great season in Nashville...they're both good players who IMO, are safe picks to reach their full potential, they're just in different situations right now...and like another poster said, unless your a Habs fan or live in Montreal, you don't understand the kind of pressure there is on players in that city

 

[Sammy*]

He wasen't...Leopold is probably better then Hainsey but if Ron can reach his potential, he could be a star in the NHL and be as good as Jordan...

The problem with that is: IF

Well,if Leopold reaches his potential he could win the Norris Trophy & right now he is so much better than Hainsey the comparison is a bad joke. You (not you, but the ) might as well say Leopold is better than Lidstrom .
See, potential is not a one way street.

 

[triggrman]

Well I doubt Nashville had Bouillon in their plans considering they already had a small d-man in Timonen, not to mention Zidlicky isin't the biggest d-man either, so that has to do with circumstances more than anything.

The point is, had Komisarek been drafted by Nashville and Hamhuis by Montreal, we'd be talking about Hamhuis being overrated and how Komisarek had a great season in Nashville...they're both good players who IMO, are safe picks to reach their full potential, they're just in different situations right now...and like another poster said, unless your a Habs fan or live in Montreal, you don't understand the kind of pressure there is on players in that city

If Nashville didn't have any plans for Bouillon they wouldn't claimed him on waivers.

 

[Freaky Habs Fan]

Well,if Leopold reaches his potential he could win the Norris Trophy & right now he is so much better than Hainsey the comparison is a bad joke. You (not you, but the ) might as well say Leopold is better than Lidstrom .
See, potential is not a one way street.

You are right. Leopold could win the Norris if he reach his full potential. Same thing for Hainsey if he reach his full potential...

And don't worry about db23, many Habs fan disagree with his opinion...Just make a tour in the Habs Boards, you will see

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

If Nashville didn't have any plans for Bouillon they wouldn't claimed him on waivers.

Cheap NHL quality depth on defense. That is it. Pretty much like what he is in Montreal for. He likely wasn't in any long term plans, say over a year.