Klefbom's advanced stats are the best of his career this year

McJazz

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Jun 18, 2016
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Trading Klefbom would be the dumbest of moves. We need value contracts badly when Mcdavid’s contract kicks in, and Klefbom for just above 4M$ is great. I have high hopes of him rebounding vastly next season.
 

McJazz

Registered User
Jun 18, 2016
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Gothenburg
It shows that advanced stats still have a long way to go to be the end all be all. He has not been good at all for most of the season.
He has had a rough season, but over the last half he has been much better IMO. Not as good as last year obviously, but still very serviceable.
 
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McDNicks17

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I would assume this has more to do with the team's improvements in those categories.

His relative stats are the worst he's had in his career.
 
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Bryanbryoil

Pray For Ukraine
Sep 13, 2004
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He has had a rough season, but over the last half he has been much better IMO. Not as good as last year obviously, but still very serviceable.

As a whole this season paled in comparison to last season yet he improved? Yeah......
 
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VainGretzky

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Jun 4, 2015
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Ok we know he was playing with a bum shoulder , which explains his drop in offence and goals , but if this team sells low on another player because of a down season will show it's never going to win ever.
 
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oobga

Tier 2 Fan
Aug 1, 2003
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I really get the sense that Chia and McLellan know what they have in Klef, and have confidence he will be better next year. They knew from the summer that he was playing hurt this year, and McLellan still played him huge minutes, depending on him heavily over other D on the team. I think the org in general puts the majority of blame for this year on the goaltending. Multiple times from Nicholson, Chia and McLellan, they have pointed at goaltending quickly in their discussions on how this failed season happened. Right or wrong, that's a good thing for the org's will to hold onto Klef.

Wherever Klef ends up, I think he is going to get a very good season next year. Just hope it's for us.
 

Aceboogie

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Aug 25, 2012
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Couple things to unpack here:

1) General reminder that analytics are not the be all and end all (why does this have to said each time lol)

2) The eye test from judging defenseman is more broken than analytics is

I will keep rehashing this, because noone is aware how broken the evaluation method for defenseman is. And people continue to still over rely on it. Ive made several posts on this matter, so what is another one. Fans are subject to all of the usual human evaluation biases, and its really bad for judging D. Basically humans will overemphasize a very small sample of occurrences and overlook/ignore/not be aware of a much larger small size of less significant events, but in total add up to much more importance than the small sample size of occurrences they overvalue. Basically, they put 80% of weight in an evaluation into 30% of whats actually going on

What an actual example of this? Fans over value goals against and the odd noticeable mistake way, way, way, way (times about 10) too much. If a D gets burned wide, or passes the puck up the middle and it gets picked off once- fans will ride that player to no end and pretty much all fans will leave the game with the conclusion that D sucked. It doesnt matter if that D made 20 other good break out passes, or held the line, kept the puck in and resulted in a goal for us. D are taught from a young age to not take risks and to just play it simple. Simple D get played, risky D get ridden (even though risky plays result in good plays for your team). This is why D like risky Nurse (who I made a similar post about last year), Gardiner, Barrie etc will continue to be criminally underrated. They are prone to the odd big mistake and fans will judge them entirely on that mistake. They will make dozens of other great plays that are way more impactful to the game and these will get ignored. No fan remembers a good outlet pass in the 2nd period of a game 3 days ago. But they do remember that one give away that resulted in a goal against

Fans love simple D. They love a D who doesnt get burned or make glaring mistakes. And they dont care that the D offers nothing of value elsewhere. Its complete loss aversion mentality. Fans/coaches would rather forego 2 goals on offense in order to prevent one goal against on defense

Fans (myself included), GMs, coaches suck at evaluating D, we are all subject to the same biases that plague humans in real life. This is way historically the D cores have been filled low skill, rugged and simple D. The Grybas and Fistrics of the world have played 350+ games in the NHL because they play a low event, simple game. High event D are only in the NHL if they can play in the top 4. This is because coaches cant stand high event D (even if they would be better overall than a guy like Gryba)

I would compare Klefbom to Gardiner. Gardiner got crapped on by Leaf fans for a long time and it was perplexing to me. Gardiner offered a crap ton to the leafs and was one of their best D.

3) Tied into #2, fans are so swayed by PDO, and Klefboms was around 96 this year. Whenever a player is getting a ton of hype one year, you can bet the farm their PDO is over 100, and when they are getting crapped on, you can bet the PDO is under 97. Its the same every year, over and over again

For the record, I did not think Klefbom had a good year and stats were flattering to him. This is just my observations on D with similar play styles to him
 

McDNicks17

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Jul 1, 2010
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And this again shows how advanced stats need to be coupled with the eye test to make any sense.

I think it more so shows the need to consider context when using advanced stats.

The team's possession numbers improved from last season and most defensemen on the team saw a ~2% increase in CF% at 5v5.

That caused Klefbom's number to improve, but relative to his teammates, he was worse this season.
 
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Aceboogie

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Aug 25, 2012
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To my post above:

I think teams would be alot better off if they first assumed that a player with good underlying stats was a good player- and worked backwards to prove that the analytics were somehow skewed in his favour and hes not as good as numbers dictate

Vs being under the impression/assumption that advanced stats have to "live up" to their eye test. Or if analytics is saying a player is not as good as they thought, to write off those underlying stats

Basically people are in the stage of adoption where something new has to confirm the traditional way of doing something, and if it differs than that method is wrong and they are right
 

McJazz

Registered User
Jun 18, 2016
320
409
Gothenburg
I will keep rehashing this, because noone is aware how broken the evaluation method for defenseman is. And people continue to still over rely on it. Ive made several posts on this matter, so what is another one. Fans are subject to all of the usual human evaluation biases, and its really bad for judging D. Basically humans will overemphasize a very small sample of occurrences and overlook/ignore/not be aware of a much larger small size of less significant events, but in total add up to much more importance than the small sample size of occurrences they overvalue. Basically, they put 80% of weight in an evaluation into 30% of whats actually going on

Well said. Another good example of this is Rasmus Dahlin, but it goes the opposite way of your example.

Now and then he makes those fantastic, nifty plays that instantly gets on the highlight reel. We watch them over and over again because they are so impressive. The issue is that those plays are a minimal part of his total impact on a game; He can have 3 bad plays in a game and yet everyone only focuses on how unbelievable his single dangle was.

I’m obviously overstating a little to prove my point, but I think there is a chance that some people expect him to come into the NHL next season and be purely dominant right away. As a Gothenburg native and regular watcher of Rasmus, I don’t see it. For the record I can say that I love watching him and definitely think he will be a fantastic defenceman in a few years.
 
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oljimmy

Registered User
May 9, 2013
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Couple things to unpack here:

1) General reminder that analytics are not the be all and end all (why does this have to said each time lol)

2) The eye test from judging defenseman is more broken than analytics is

This should be stickied, ha ha. The big thing with Klef is that he scored a bunch of clutch goals last year and so we all notice, this year, when with a bum shoulder his slapshots are generally ineffective. And we've been dying for an offensive D-man since forever so that feeds the bias. This alone explains 85% of the "he's had a bad year" impression. I'm sure he'd admit it wasn't his absolute best hockey this year but there is every reason to think that he will rebound next year.
 

StevenF1919

Registered User
Oct 9, 2017
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Edmonton
Make sure you're looking at 5v5 and not all situations. His CF rel is the worst of his career and far below his career average. Same with Fenwick rel. Using all situations skews the stats to the point that they aren't even worth looking at, especially when using rel to compare them to other players. Obviously Klefbom, who gets lots of PP time, is going to have excellent corsi and fenwick rel when compared to players who only play 5v5 or get lots of PK time.

With that being said, he's been excellent since January. Trading him would be a huge mistake since he's the only top pairing dman on the roster who's been able to sustain his play (with the exception of the first half of this season). Nurse has shown flashes of greatness but he hasn't been able to sustain it for longer than 25-30 games. Shipping Klefbom out and thrusting Nurse into a bigger role is not going to turn out well.

On another note, holy f*** have Sekera's stats been bad this year. Negative corsi rel and a whopping 13.04(!!) GF%. He's a 5v5 -17 in 30 games. Auvitu (<3) has played 29 games and has a positive corsi rel and a 59.52 GF%.
 
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hockeyguy1967

Trans hockey fan! Go Leafs and Oilers!
Aug 24, 2017
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Make sure you're looking at 5v5 and not all situations. His CF rel is the worst of his career and far below his career average. Same with Fenwick rel. Using all situations skews the stats to the point that they aren't even worth looking at, especially when using rel to compare them to other players. Obviously Klefbom, who gets lots of PP time, is going to have excellent corsi and fenwick rel when compared to players who only play 5v5 or get lots of PK time.

With that being said, he's been excellent since January. Trading him would be a huge mistake since he's the only top pairing dman on the roster who's been able to sustain his play (with the exception of the first half of this season). Nurse has shown flashes of greatness but he hasn't been able to sustain it for longer than 25-30 games. Shipping Klefbom out and thrusting Nurse into a bigger role is not going to turn out well.

On another note, holy **** have Sekera's stats been bad this year. Negative corsi rel and a whopping 13.04(!!) GF%. He's a 5v5 -17 in 30 games. Auvitu (<3) has played 29 games and has a positive corsi rel and a 59.52 GF%.
Hmm CF and FF look better then last year? And CFrel and FFrel are better then last year as well.
 

StevenF1919

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Oct 9, 2017
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Edmonton
Hmm CF and FF look better then last year? And CFrel and FFrel are better then last year as well.
Corsi is better because the entire team's corsi is better this year. His corsi rel is 0.5 (last year was 0.7) and fenwick rel is 0.9 (last year was 1.4). His career averages are 1.8 CF rel and 2.6 FF rel.
 

Louis Cypher

Boys are back in town
Jun 11, 2007
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I would hope that the only way Klef gets traded is if we win the lottery. Even then maybe beg Russel to waive his ntc.
 

Mr Positive

Cap Crunch Incoming
Nov 20, 2013
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my main frustration with him this season is that his shoulder issue has impacted his shot. He might still be good at closing some gaps (although Im not sure on that one), but his shot quality has went in the toilet. Him being this way has allowed Bear and Auvitu to look really good.
 

StoveTopStauffer

Registered User
Apr 6, 2012
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I actually think Klefbom despite his really poor first half of the season has been really good since Xmas.

He was making really bonehead decisions before then. Since then he's been relatively decent.
 

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