KHL Trades, Rumors and Free Agent Talk Part 5

[SoundAndFury]

How is it fair to the club if club´s chances to get a transfer fee is equal to zero? Whom is it fair to?

What you said is an opinion of people who care only about players, they do not care at all about hockey development in the world.

It is fair to everyone because the player isn't club's property. He was paid a salary to pay for the club. Once he did that he's free to pursue whatever he wants. That's how Bosman rule came to existence in the first place. You don't own the person just because you paid him a salary for some fraction of time.
And what is the evidence the way you imagine things is any better than the way I do? How are you so certain this revolution of yours would help hockey development instead of hurting it?

Players play sport to be better than their peers, teams assemble the best players to be better than other teams, and leagues fight so that the best teams would have the better players to be better than other leagues.
This is professional sports. Not choir boys playing baseball after the mass on sundays.

Yeah that's what best on best competitions are for. Local leagues are like choir boys playing because only boys from that village are allowed to participate. And way bigger village will have a way better after the mass league because they produce way more candy to give out after the game.
That's why national teams came to existence in the first place, when people realized you can't get everyone playing for the same club. Or tie them to a local league. And since there are national teams, there is no need for clubs to try and be super very extremely best. Naturally, nations whose NTs stink maybe feel they are left by the waistline by the system which works for others and are looking for someone to blame.

 

[vorky]

It is fair to everyone because the player isn't club's property. He was paid a salary to pay for the club. Once he did that he's free to pursue whatever he wants. That's how Bosman rule came to existence in the first place. You don't own the person just because you paid him a salary for some fraction of time.
And what is the evidence the way you imagine things is any better than the way I do? How are you so certain this revolution of yours would help hockey development instead of hurting it?

Do you know how international transfers work in other sports than hockey? Are they illegal?

 

[SoundAndFury]

Do you know how international transfers work in other sports than hockey? Are they illegal?

Yes and no.

What is the point here though?

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

That's why national teams came to existence in the first place, when people realized you can't get everyone playing for the same club.

Tell Rotenberg

 

[vorky]

Yes and no.

What is the point here though?

Cool. Many many people involving in sport industry does not agree with you. Please, explain me how is it possible, and legal, to have so many transfers in sport industry if it is illegal according to your opinion. Just curious.

Per your definition, all NHL trades and draft are illegal. All transfers in soccer etc are illegal. All development compensations in soccer are illegal. All trades in the KHL are illegal. And I can go on ...

 

[SoundAndFury]

Cool. Many many people involving in sport industry does not agree with you. Please, explain me how is it possible, and legal, to have so many transfers in sport industry if it is illegal according to your opinion. Just curious.

Per your definition, all NHL trades and draft are illegal. All transfers in soccer etc are illegal. All development compensations in soccer are illegal. All trades in the KHL are illegal. And I can go on ...

What are you talking about? Both KHL and NHL only acquire rights to the player by offering him an ELC, that is after making a significant financial investment into you. Furthermore, you are free to not sign with a team which drafted you and play anywhere in the world outside of that particular league. Trades or transfers that involve the player himself act according to the contract THE PLAYER himself has signed. If you are an UFA you can sign with anyone, anywhere, in any sport. So again, what the hell are you talking about.

Development compensation are those very pennies you are unhappy about in hockey. They are next to nothing in other sports as well. As they should be.

 

[Jussi]

Do your own research on European courts decisions in sport field and transfer rules in other sports. Just a note, all these entities are run by us "Westerners". Last but not least, what about the NHL? If you do not know, the NHL is based in the US, a Western country.

I think one needs to understand that most of those are referring to football, a sport wher most transfers do not involve 18-20 year olds, as in Europe to NHL transfers. But still, they mention the players as having the same rights as an employee. If the hockey situation were to be taken into a European court because some league or federation tried to prevent players from moving, it stands to reason the players would win.

 

[Jussi]

Sometimes I wonder if you can read.
You are an intelligent person (I'm not being sarcastic), it just happens that we almost never agree.
You miss the point that no one wants to hinder any "freedom" to the players, we (non-Russians and Russians alike) just constate the fact that most of the players who decided to go to the CHL just had a bad idea.

And I realize and also see from stats that it hasn't always been beneficial. But I still think that it's always an individuals own choice, it's their career or life so we should accept that.

 

[Jussi]

What the hell are you saying? To conquer the world you have to make wars, having an independent country doesn't mean starting wars left and right.
Players play sport to be better than their peers, teams assemble the best players to be better than other teams, and leagues fight so that the best teams would have the better players to be better than other leagues.
This is professional sports. Not choir boys playing baseball after the mass on sundays.

Except in many domestic leagues it isn't (not talking about hockey). Many smaller team sport players in Europe are not compensated at a level where they can focus only on playing, because there isn't that much money in their sports in their country.

 

[vorky]

Development compensation are those very pennies you are unhappy about in hockey. They are next to nothing in other sports as well. As they should be.

Agree about development compensation. Therefore there is a mechanism of international transfers in other sports. Club A, club B and a player make a deal about transfer fee (agreed by clubs) and player´s salary in new club. This mechanism does not exist in principle in hockey if a player moves from Europe to America/Canada. That is a problem.

What are you talking about? Both KHL and NHL only acquire rights to the player by offering him an ELC, that is after making a significant financial investment into you. Furthermore, you are free to not sign with a team which drafted you and play anywhere in the world outside of that particular league. Trades or transfers that involve the player himself act according to the contract THE PLAYER himself has signed. If you are an UFA you can sign with anyone, anywhere, in any sport. So again, what the hell are you talking about.

You said the player isn't club's property. Agree. You know how it works in hockey, the NHL club & the NHL can decide if a player under contract can move to another league. The player can not do it without the NHL´s approval. The NHL club can loan a player to European clubs as well. That is fine. For some reason, this mechanism does not work other way. European club and league has NO right to decide if a player under contract can move to the NHL. They have no right to ask a transfer fee (even if agreed by a player in his contract). European club should have equal rights as the NHL club. Unfortunatelly, European hockey officials does not care about this "detail."

 

[vorky]

I think one needs to understand that most of those are referring to football, a sport wher most transfers do not involve 18-20 year olds, as in Europe to NHL transfers. But still, they mention the players as having the same rights as an employee. If the hockey situation were to be taken into a European court because some league or federation tried to prevent players from moving, it stands to reason the players would win.

Nobody wants to prevent players from moving. As was said by @Alessandro Seren Rosso I sometimes wonder if you can read.

 

[Jussi]

Nobody wants to prevent players from moving. As was said by @Alessandro Seren Rosso I sometimes wonder if you can read.

Considering your complaints about Finnish and Swedish leagues not doing anything about the transfer money and your posting history on the subject, that's rather contradictory.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...s-germany-4-ot.2452017/page-22#post-141941131

3.Outclauses should be limited and respect good manners. All Liiga players can not have KHL-out-clauses allowing them to leave the team without compensation for his previous team. And of course, the same case, but out clause is 100 mil USD. That is not good manners if speaking about hockey.

Any attempts to limit any kind of outclauses by the league or federation would be considered as restriction on employee movement for example by the FHPA.

 

[vorky]

Considering your complaints about Finnish and Swedish leagues not doing anything about the transfer money and your posting history on the subject, that's rather contradictory.

I recommend you to read more carefully next time.

 

[Rigafan]

Nigel Dawes has left Barys to Avto? Why is this? This doesn't seem like something that would have happened. He's basically the Hero of Astana

 

[Go Donbass]

Nigel Dawes has left Barys to Avto? Why is this? This doesn't seem like something that would have happened. He's basically the Hero of Astana

That's been known for quite awhile now. Avto also signed Stefan De Costa today. Looks like they are really going for it next year.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Nigel Dawes has left Barys to Avto? Why is this? This doesn't seem like something that would have happened. He's basically the Hero of Astana

How so? Bochenski and Boyd moved and the team is non-competitive. What's keeping him there? The writing was on the wall when he didn't play for Kazakhstan NT in WC.

 

[Rigafan]

How so? Bochenski and Boyd moved and the team is non-competitive. What's keeping him there? The writing was on the wall when he didn't play for Kazakhstan NT in WC.

From Interviews and such, hes very complimentary about the team and life in Astana. I thought he was there for good. Clearly not. Good luck to him and nice puck up for Avto.

 

[Milos Krasic]

Semin signed with Vityaz. Interesting.

 

[Jussi]

Hakanpää might be going back NHL indeed, but from what I understand Jokerit is the plan B. Will a 2-way deal in the NHL/AHL be enough for him? Will anyone offer a 1-way deal? Again; we'll see.

Well he said last week or after the finals that his only options for next season are NHL or Kärpät. Even a two-way deal would be good.

 

[MaxV]

From Interviews and such, hes very complimentary about the team and life in Astana. I thought he was there for good. Clearly not. Good luck to him and nice puck up for Avto.

I don’t think it has anything to do with Astana, but rather Avto’s deep pockets.

It looks like Avto has firmly become one of the “big boys.”

Yekaterinburg is a solid size market.

 

[Jussi]

Matt Gilroy, Jokerit->Rappeswill NLA. Apparently he was fed up with the travel in KHL after this past season so this was expected.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Dinamo Moscow means business this year, in addition to all the earlier signings Shipachyov and Kagarlitsky added as well.

 

[Go Donbass]

Dinamo Moscow means business this year, in addition to all the earlier signings Shipachyov and Kagarlitsky added as well.

Ya, DM are signing everyone with a pulse today. Some nice signings, but they didn't do much to get younger. Signed Afinogenov too.

 

[SoundAndFury]

They have only 3 guys above 32, not really an old team. They let most of the vets go.

 

[Go Donbass]

They have only 3 guys above 32, not really an old team. They let most of the vets go.

Sorry, that was my autocorrect, I didn't mean older, I meant broker