KHL business aspects discussion

[Rigafan]

..which has 1 European impact team based outside of Russia.

Half of the teams in the league are based in Europe? I don't understand the anti Russian stuff on here? Sure they have a shady way of funding their teams but the league is developing, its only 10 season old, I think people forget that when we talk about teams coming and going.

 

[Albatros]

I don't think it's anti-Russian to say that the country is not a part of European integration at all. That can of course be expressed in many different ways.

 

[RossiyaSport]

The 'perfect' NA sports system. Gouging the hell out of the consumer on tickets, food, parking, merchandise. Coming up with scams like personal seat licenses. Commercialize the league to absurdity. Its almost unwatchable with the constant commercials and plugs. Sell all the naming rights to areans to matter how absurd the name is and putting a gigantic Little Ceasers logo on top of an arena.

In addition to gouging the fans, expecting them to buy a new stadium and if they don't the owner moves the team to a new city like a thief in the night crapping on the fans and the franchise legacy (Chargers, Raiders, Rams).

 

[vorky]

I don't think it's anti-Russian to say that the country is not a part of European integration at all. That can of course be expressed in many different ways.

Fine. But hockey related, Russia/CCCP has always been a part of European hockey.

 

[Toro2017]

Fine. But hockey related, Russia/CCCP has always been a part of European hockey.

If you can accept Albatros point, can you also imagine that some people in Europe might be thinking that Russia/CCCP is not part of european hockey family anymore? That because KHL does not want to integrate with rest of european hockey scene in CHL (and continental cup). Maybe other european federations should withdraw from Euro Hockey Tour and make the separation more clear.

 

[Jussi]

How has the fund been used? How does it develop club´s infrastructure, TV coverage, marketing, etc? Can not wait for a reply. To give you an example, money from TV revenues which are distributed to the KHL teams, have to be used for items like infrastructure, marketing, TV coverage etc. Plus the KHL teams are obligated to develop all this items season by season. Is the same happening in the CHL?

For ****'s sake, comparing KHL finances is irrelevant when it comes to CHL. KHL is a league, CHL is a tournament.

CHL funding is separate from the clubs because theri main operations are in their domestic leagues. Each club markets their own games locally, some better, some worse.

 

[vorky]

If you can accept Albatros point, can you also imagine that some people in Europe might be thinking that Russia/CCCP is not part of european hockey family anymore? That because KHL does not want to integrate with rest of european hockey scene in CHL (and continental cup). Maybe other european federations should withdraw from Euro Hockey Tour and make the separation more clear.

For argument’s sake, only governing body of European (& World) hockey is the IIHF, not the CHL. And the Russian Hockey Federation is an IIHF member. Of course you can have your own opinion.

 

[ForumNamePending]

A trend is good, 114m, 243m & 352m rubles. If my math is correct, it is 300% increase for last 3 seasons. Take into consideration that the league will have 24 teams instead of 27(29). So same (at least) money for less clubs.

It is interesting to compare the KHL & the CHL.

The KHL shared above $6m last season, worst team got $104k and the best $700k. To compare it with the CHL, 4 KHL teams (lets add Avto to the list, who is a bit above the sum) got less than 100k EUR ($119k). These four teams were Novokuznetsk, Yugra, Severstal & Lada + Avtomobilist. Novokuznetsk is not in the KHL anymore, and lets hope Yugra, Severstal & Lada will follow them.

The CHL shared 1,5m EUR ($1,7m) last season, it is 0% increase for last 3 seasons. The worst team got 9k EUR, but lets not count Yunost, Kosice & Nitra here. If no those 3, then lowest prize money was 20k EUR ($24k) - 9 teams. The champion earned 143k EUR ($171k) and runner up 103k EUR ($123k). Only these two teams got more than 100k EUR ($119k), another 6 got 50k EUR ($59k) and more.

The CHL plans to increase total prize money to 3,5m EUR ($4,2m) by 2022, it is 230% (planned) increase for last 8 years. The champion will get 720k EUR ($860k) by 2022.

Just facts.

So last season the KHL divided $6 million between 29 teams, each playing somewhere between 60 and 78 games.

This season the CHL will split $1.7 million between 32 teams, each playing somewhere between 6 and 13 games.

Neither are particularly lucrative, but on a per game bases the CHL actually distributes more money than the KHL. Of course teams playing in the CHL can also collect a share of the TV money from their domestic leagues as well. From what I can find online, these deals are more lucrative than what the KHL currently has, sometimes by a substantial margin...

-The SHL just signed a deal worth ~50 million EUR/year.
-The Swiss and Finnish leagues each just signed deals worth 20+ million EUR/year.
-Even in more of a niche hockey market like Germany, the DEL gets 4 million EUR/year, which is better than the KHL on a per team bases.
-Can't find anything for the Czech league or the EBEL.
-I can't imagine the remaining clubs' domestic leagues are getting much, if anything at all, for TV/media rights. I also can't imagine the KHL has much interest in recruiting clubs like Gap or Esbjerg.

Looking at these numbers it would certainly be easy to understand why clubs from leagues involved in the CHL currently might not be all that interested in joining the KHL.

 

[Toro2017]

Looking at these numbers it would certainly be easy to understand why clubs from leagues involved in the CHL currently might not be all that interested in joining the KHL.

So basically only teams with financial problems are candidates for KHL. If so, maybe Hamburg will get a KHL team, if German federation gives a green light. If not, maybe Russians should take another team from Finland and try to build hockey rivalry in Finland and it's capital area. Because Salonojas new team in Espoo is in troubles again and among other things, they have ****ed up relationship with affiliate junior team. If Espoo does not have affiliate junior team next season, they should lose their license to play Mestis.

 

[Jussi]

So basically only teams with financial problems are candidates for KHL. If so, maybe Hamburg will get a KHL team, if German federation gives a green light. If not, maybe Russians should take another team from Finland and try to build hockey rivalry in Finland and it's capital area. Because Salonojas new team in Espoo is in troubles again and among other things, they have ****ed up relationship with affiliate junior team. If Espoo does not have affiliate junior team next season, they should lose their license to play Mestis.

It literally would make no sense to get a another KHL team in Espoo of all places. Poor arena location, attendances issues even when they were good, the arenas's small for KHL standards. Everything about that place is cursed.

 

[Jussi]

So last season the KHL divided $6 million between 29 teams, each playing somewhere between 60 and 78 games.

This season the CHL will split $1.7 million between 32 teams, each playing somewhere between 6 and 13 games.

Neither are particularly lucrative, but on a per game bases the CHL actually distributes more money than the KHL. Of course teams playing in the CHL can also collect a share of the TV money from their domestic leagues as well. From what I can find online, these deals are more lucrative than what the KHL currently has, sometimes by a substantial margin...

-The SHL just signed a deal worth ~50 million EUR/year.
-The Swiss and Finnish leagues each just signed deals worth 20+ million EUR/year.
-Even in more of a niche hockey market like Germany, the DEL gets 4 million EUR/year, which is better than the KHL on a per team bases.
-Can't find anything for the Czech league or the EBEL.
-I can't imagine the remaining clubs' domestic leagues are getting much, if anything at all, for TV/media rights. I also can't imagine the KHL has much interest in recruiting clubs like Gap or Esbjerg.

Looking at these numbers it would certainly be easy to understand why clubs from leagues involved in the CHL currently might not be all that interested in joining the KHL.

Yup, CHL prize money is just bonus money for the leagues. The same way the UCL is for example to the Premier League clubs because their tv deal brings more money to the clubs than the UCL prize money. No one compares those two, so I don't see any logic in comparing the KHL and CHL.

 

[Yakushev72]

The 'perfect' NA sports system. Gouging the hell out of the consumer on tickets, food, parking, merchandise. Coming up with scams like personal seat licenses. Commercialize the league to absurdity. Its almost unwatchable with the constant commercials and plugs. Sell all the naming rights to areans to matter how absurd the name is and putting a gigantic Little Ceasers logo on top of an arena.

In addition to gouging the fans, expecting them to buy a new stadium and if they don't the owner moves the team to a new city like a thief in the night crapping on the fans and the franchise legacy (Chargers, Raiders, Rams).

So true! One more thing to add: corporations buy up all the tickets and then pass them out to customers who do not care enough to attend the game. In the USA, its kind of like trying to force-feed a game that does not fit unless a team makes a deep run in the playoffs.

 

[Urbanskog]

It literally would make no sense to get a another KHL team in Espoo of all places. Poor arena location, attendances issues even when they were good, the arenas's small for KHL standards. Everything about that place is cursed.

"Poor arena location"? There are just five subway stations between the arena and the Helsinki downtown and it's also well connected to the districts of Matinkylä and Tapiola.

 

[Jussi]

"Poor arena location"? There are just five subway stations between the arena and the Helsinki downtown and it's also well connected to the districts of Matinkylä and Tapiola.

Poor arena location = it's in Espoo. There's no fan support there and people don't bother making that trip to the arena.

 

[Urbanskog]

Poor arena location = it's in Espoo. There's no fan support there and people don't bother making that trip to the arena.

Would the location be much better if it was on the other side of the largely artificial municipal border?

 

[Toro2017]

Poor arena location = it's in Espoo. There's no fan support there and people don't bother making that trip to the arena.

I have to agree with urbanskog. The subway station is going to be right beside the arena. I would say, that after they get "länsimetro" up and running, Metro arena is as connected to the city as Hartwall arena, if not better.

 

[Urbanskog]

I have to agree with urbanskog. The subway station is going to be right beside the arena. I would say, that after they get "länsimetro" up and running, Metro arena is as connected to the city as Hartwall arena, if not better.

Yes, it will be easier and faster to get there from the city center than it would be to get to Hartwall Arena. The location itself isn't bad, but there are certainly other issues.

 

[Jussi]

Yes, it will be easier and faster to get there from the city center than it would be to get to Hartwall Arena. The location itself isn't bad, but there are certainly other issues.

The main one being that it's in Espoo, which is my point. I'm well aware of the subway connection since Blues fans kept mentioning it several times that it shouldn't prevent people from getting to the arena. They just don't want to go there.

 

[Urbanskog]

The main one being that it's in Espoo, which is my point. I'm well aware of the subway connection since Blues fans kept mentioning it several times that it shouldn't prevent people from getting to the arena. They just don't want to go there.

Turns out that you need something more than a Mestis or subpar Liiga team to attract crowds in the capital region.

 

[CPFC]

The only marginally potential KHL expansion team in Finland is Kärpät. They call themself the "team for half of Finland", they don't really have regional rivals and the corporate scene in Oulu is slowly picking up, after the downfall of Nokia. With a new arena they could have a chance in KHL. Of course they would also need oligarch money, but significantly less than Ilves or Blues for example.

 

[Jussi]

Turns out that you need something more than a Mestis or subpar Liiga team to attract crowds in the capital region.

When Blues was playing in the finals they didn't want to go there.

 

[Jussi]

The only marginally potential KHL expansion team in Finland is Kärpät. They call themself the "team for half of Finland", they don't really have regional rivals and the corporate scene in Oulu is slowly picking up, after the downfall of Nokia. With a new arena they could have a chance in KHL. Of course they would also need oligarch money, but significantly less than Ilves or Blues for example.

Thing is, most of their sponsors are local/domestic market. I don't think Oulun Baari have interest in advertising in Russia.

 

[Urbanskog]

When Blues was playing in the finals they didn't want to go there.

Based on what? As far as I can remember, the 2011 finals were well attended.

 

[CPFC]

Thing is, most of their sponsors are local/domestic market. I don't think Oulun Baari have interest in advertising in Russia.

Companies like iLOQ and OMP (which are from Oulu) are also sponsoring Kärpät and they are pretty big players. With KHL connections they could get some sweetheart deals from Russia

 

[Albatros]

They're not big enough to run a hockey club, but Yota Devices (mobile phones) is one notable Russian company that does their R&D in Oulu. Still, Kärpät wouldn't be a good fit.