Ken Holland is Flailing

BinCookin

Registered User
Feb 15, 2012
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Rome was not built overnight. This rebuild just started last year, have some patience. If Kenny's only goal would be the playoffs, he would have fired Blashill a year ago. About couple months from now Kenny will trade Green and most likely Mrazek too and since they re-signed Tatar, Nyquist will be traded this or next season TDL.

right on

I think for the past 1.5 years we have been making all the moves that are connected with rebuilding.
We are following the path. Its interesting to see where we go
 

jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
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Well said. Chicago is essentially where Detroit was in 2010.
And if, over the next 7 years, Chicago does what Detroit did from 2010-2017, the team will end up lousy, and people will deservedly get fired.
 

Winger98

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Feb 27, 2002
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As I've said, you don't trade them. What we have to pack with them would likely be counter productive. The plan should just be to mitigate the damage by not signing more stupid deals.

This is how it works. Anyone can see that Chicago’s window is closing, that Pittsburghs is closing, that SJ’s and Boston’s started closing years ago.. you don’t tear down a good thing. Wow, you accurately predicted in 2009 that players would get old and Wings would become bad. It only took you almost 10 years to be correct! What a genius. Please enlighten us, do you think Crosby and Malkin will be leading Pittsburgh to cups in 10 years? Maybe they should trade Crosby now so they can have a chance at rebuilding in 5 years?

I hate to admit it, but Pittsburgh is looked to be a pretty good threat for at least another 3 years, maybe longer with a bit of luck and health. So much is possible when you're able to roll Crosby and Malkin out there all of the time.

Have to drop it out there about where Boston could be if they didn't deal Seguin and Hamilton off for next to nothing. They could be looking at being serious cup contenders for another 5-10 years with those two still on-board.
 
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WingedWheel1987

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Jan 11, 2011
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I dont know why you even watch this team anymore... you never, ever, ever have anything nice to say about anything.

I'll say something nice when there is anything nice worth saying.

I call a spade a spade. No point in sugar coating a pile of ****.

I'll be all sunshine and rainbow's when Ken Holland is fired/gone. Until then, i expect to see more moronic signings by an organization that lacks any vision.
 

WingedWheel1987

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I mean you must at least enjoy Mantha / Larkin having decent years right?

Not really. If Larkin and Mantha both looked like potential 80+ point players, i would at least have some hope. Unfortunately they look like another 50-60ish point duo. Neither look like they have any shot at anchoring the team for the next decade.

Wings need to maximize their # of ping pong balls. Everything else is irrelevant. Watching Kenny spend the Wings out of the lottery, so they can draft 6-9 is a gigantic waste of time.

I don't expect a single player on the current roster to be part of the Wings core. Heck the Wings haven't even drafted any of their core players yet.
 

Winger98

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Feb 27, 2002
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The past few years a 60 point forward was in or around the top40 producing forwards in the league. It's definitely not elite, but it's not bad, and it's better than what we can probably expect to pull from Tatar or Nyquist.
 

Dotter

THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
Jul 2, 2014
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Not really. If Larkin and Mantha both looked like potential 80+ point players, i would at least have some hope. Unfortunately they look like another 50-60ish point duo. Neither look like they have any shot at anchoring the team for the next decade.

Wings need to maximize their # of ping pong balls. Everything else is irrelevant. Watching Kenny spend the Wings out of the lottery, so they can draft 6-9 is a gigantic waste of time.

I don't expect a single player on the current roster to be part of the Wings core. Heck the Wings haven't even drafted any of their core players yet.

Watching Avalanche outspend their draft lottery last season when they drafted 4th.... oh wait.

Too bad Flyers were top 5 team spending to the cap last season and had to draft 2nd.... oh wait.
 

WingedWheel1987

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Watching Avalanche outspend their draft lottery last season when they drafted 4th.... oh wait.

Too bad Flyers were top 5 team spending to the cap last season and had to draft 2nd.... oh wait.

80 million dollar roster.

One of the oldest teams in the league.

Keep on defending incompetence.
 

Leadzedder

Registered User
Jan 2, 2005
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80 million dollar roster.

One of the oldest teams in the league.

Keep on defending incompetence.

And you keep on spreading your negativity.

As for the thread, started out like a train wreck but good to see some pushback from those that don't just look backwards. As some have said, it's about looking forward, when looking forward, we all want the same things.
 

WingedWheel1987

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And you keep on spreading your negativity.

As for the thread, started out like a train wreck but good to see some pushback from those that don't just look backwards. As some have said, it's about looking forward, when looking forward, we all want the same things.

You can't look forward when there is nothing to look forward to.

Garbage GM that continues to add more bad contracts to the team and refuses to accept that he failed.

Amusing that people still think i'm being negative. I'm not being negative when everything i say is the most likely outcome.
 

Pavels Dog

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Feb 18, 2013
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I hate to admit it, but Pittsburgh is looked to be a pretty good threat for at least another 3 years, maybe longer with a bit of luck and health. So much is possible when you're able to roll Crosby and Malkin out there all of the time.

Have to drop it out there about where Boston could be if they didn't deal Seguin and Hamilton off for next to nothing. They could be looking at being serious cup contenders for another 5-10 years with those two still on-board.
And with a bit of luck and better health, we could have been a threat in pretty much any year between '10 and '15. So much is possible when you're able to roll Zetterberg and Datsyuk out there all of the time.

Boston isn't a perfect comparable because they weren't able to stay as consistently good as we did, so they landed some top picks (that they didn't always utilize that well), but fact remains they've been and remain in a similar tier as what we we were for the last 6-7 years of our playoff run. Not quite a top contender, but still too many good pieces to blow it all up. In any given year they could go on a run or they could be a wildcard-level team that does nothing.
 

jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
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As some have said, it's about looking forward, when looking forward, we all want the same things.
Agreed, with this caveat, to paraphrase George Santayana:

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Let's hope that either a leopard changes his spots, or there's a new leopard in town, sooner rather than later.
 

Winger98

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Feb 27, 2002
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And with a bit of luck and better health, we could have been a threat in pretty much any year between '10 and '15. So much is possible when you're able to roll Zetterberg and Datsyuk out there all of the time.

Boston isn't a perfect comparable because they weren't able to stay as consistently good as we did, so they landed some top picks (that they didn't always utilize that well), but fact remains they've been and remain in a similar tier as what we we were for the last 6-7 years of our playoff run. Not quite a top contender, but still too many good pieces to blow it all up. In any given year they could go on a run or they could be a wildcard-level team that does nothing.

It was more just more a remark that Boston had a gift fall into their lap with the Kessel trade and then blew it spectacularly. They really haven't been a team I've seen as being able to get in and go on a run. Chara's too much a shadow of his former self. They seem to have hit gold with that McAvoy kid, though.

Pitts blueline is in far better shape than ours was at that time. It is significantly younger as a group and signed for the next several years. For us, Stuart was falling apart and Rafalski's knee was giving out. If Lids had been 30 in 2010 instead of 40, though...yeah, I have different expectations for that group, or at least our ability to continue building a workable blueline around him.

I think Chicago is closer to what we were in 2010. And, yeah, I think Chicago needs to start looking at tearing things down a bit but I think they're in too tight of a spot with some of their deals.
 

kliq

Registered User
Dec 17, 2017
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Not really. If Larkin and Mantha both looked like potential 80+ point players, i would at least have some hope. Unfortunately they look like another 50-60ish point duo. Neither look like they have any shot at anchoring the team for the next decade.

Wings need to maximize their # of ping pong balls. Everything else is irrelevant. Watching Kenny spend the Wings out of the lottery, so they can draft 6-9 is a gigantic waste of time.

I don't expect a single player on the current roster to be part of the Wings core. Heck the Wings haven't even drafted any of their core players yet.

If your expectation of a core player is Connor McDavid, then I get it. But if your expectation of a core player is 80+ points, not sure how a 21 year old kid sitting at 29 points in 34 games looks like doesn't "have any shot at anchoring the team for the next decade". Sounds like hyperbole to me, but I get it, your lowering your expectation out of fear that you will be let down otherwise. Being an extreme optimist is silly, but being an extreme pessimist is just as bad. Realistically, both these kids are going to be a part of our core, but sure neither may end up being a the next yzerman.
 

LastWordArmy

Registered User
Sep 11, 2011
9,056
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Canada
Not impossible, but I'd be surprised if he ends up with another organization. I'd prefer he retired, but I'm guessing he ends up as some sort of advisor for Detroit.

Depends if he has the fire to keep going or not. See Lou Lamoriello and Jim Rutherford who everyone thought would just be advisors to their old clubs and ended up taking GM jobs.
 

jz78817

Registered User
Nov 25, 2017
19
0
To be fair with Holland, he warned us couple summers ago to "lower our expectations".

Realistically he knows this team isn't good enough and the season is a wash. He still needs to maintain perception for owners and some fans that team is still 'competitive'.

he seems like he's trying to get his "money's worth" out of the guys with the big contracts and giving them the most ice time. it's clear to everyone this team isn't going anywhere anytime soon no matter what. So suck it up, give the young guys with promise more ice time, and stop acting like you've got to play the guys you pay a lot just because you pay them a lot. guys like Hank should be stepping back into more of a "mentor" role by now.
 

Dotter

THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
Jul 2, 2014
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he seems like he's trying to get his "money's worth" out of the guys with the big contracts and giving them the most ice time. it's clear to everyone this team isn't going anywhere anytime soon no matter what. So suck it up, give the young guys with promise more ice time, and stop acting like you've got to play the guys you pay a lot just because you pay them a lot. guys like Hank should be stepping back into more of a "mentor" role by now.

Do GMs often dictate ice time?
 

Voodoo Glow Skulls

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Sep 27, 2017
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Good pick up, that's kind of sad. The end of last season he made mention of building to compete for a SC but haven't that reiterated in a while. Contrary to the opinions of a few people I think the statements made to the fans are somewhat important.

I'm more curious about the lack of desperation from Holland. He's saying nothing new than a year ago. Build through the draft, integrate young players. I disagree that the roster can't be overturned in 12-18 months. Holland said 3-4 years but that's by sitting on your hands 364 days after the draft. What he means is moves can't be made without looking like an idiot.

In the spring of 2014 Shanahan was brought in as President of the TML to evaluate and oversee all operations of their team. Within a year he fired two coaches, GM Nonis, an assitant GM, the VP, head of pro scouting (including 18 scouts), and head of player development. By February 2016 they had trader their top scorer Kessel and finally Dion Phaneuf. Now that's scorched earth!

My question, is there anyone respected enough to take over Chris Illich's position as President? Others have said the Wings desperately need an outsider to take the reigns. A new plan to push the rebuild towards being a contender into gear. Someone who can clearly evaluate the vision of Holland and Martin. Get a fresh perspective on the job Howe, Wright, Fischer, and Horcoff are doing. Fisher was a great player but is he the best individual available as Director of Player Evaluation?

It's obvious we have some significant deficiencies within hockey operations. IMO Ken Holland moving upstairs to a senior advisory role is not the answer to returning the Wings to greatness.

I think him moving to a job within the org. is a great idea. Give him the Bowman.
 

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