Ken Holland End of Season Press Conference

Kyleftlx

twitter*****/kyle_ftl
May 9, 2010
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For me, the key to everything is going to be in the moves he makes. Kenny says he wants to add 2-4 young guys to the roster next season, and he says that he realizes the defense is old. He also says he is no longer going to go with the "over ripe" philosophy. If he is realistically going to work in a few of Hronek/Hicketts/Svechnikov/Cholowski/Rasmussen/potential top 5 pick, he's going to have to make a deal or two to let go of some of the guys on the team already, and potentially ruffle feathers of some veterans who are signed to multi-year deals now losing playing time. The defense is full, even if the solution is to waive/buyout/trade a guy like Oullet... you still have 5 full time top 6 dmen signed, and I'm sure if Green wants to be back he will be back. Does Kenny find a deal to move out a full time dman? Kronwall isn't retiring like people expected him to be. On offense, the top 9 is pretty full with Z/Gus/Bert/Larkin/Mantha/AA/Helm/Abby/Nielsen. There isn't really room for Rasmussen there unless you're moving some of these guys out or down the lineup.

Basically, Kenny's comments aren't going to do much for me unless some moves happen to back up his comments. If that means Gus is traded, then so be it. I'd really like to see one of Kronwall/Ericsson/Dekeyser/Daley move out of a lineup that also has Green/Hronek/Jensen, and Hicketts as a #7 who could end up pushing one of the other 6 out by the end of the year. It's a lot to ask given the contracts and NTC scenarios, though.
 

Claypool

Registered User
Jan 12, 2009
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He added years to the rebuild. Every year he "liked our team" and made idiotic moves like signing every scrub grinder to half decade long contracts, it hurt the long term health of the franchise.

That's not mortgaging the future. You're talking out the wrong hole, as usual.
 
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The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
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He added years to the rebuild. Every year he "liked our team" and made idiotic moves like signing every scrub grinder to half decade long contracts, it hurt the long term health of the franchise.

In your opinion, maybe he didn't any. We don't know because so much of a rebuild is luck anyway. Maybe by Holland limping along he got to the point he got his lucky two building blocks anyway in the next two years. Before that the lottery balls went for **** and we were stuck with meh players that kept us in the Carolina sucker hole.

That is entirely his point, Buffalo did exactly what people want they even have a young #1 C and D, a really good #2C and they were the worst team in the league this year... I am confused by that but we shall see. This process doesn't have certainties as much as people like to attach them anyway.
 
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Nut Upstrom

You dirty dog!
Dec 18, 2010
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I think the most likely scenario that played out went something like this.

"We just missed the playoffs for the first time in 25 years. Adding an experienced defenseman with a couple of cups should help stabilize the blue line and help push Detroit to the other side of the bubble."

Kenny treated their first playoff miss as a one off and thought Daley was going to be the difference.

Kenny mortgaging the future so that he could keep the streak going for a few extra years was all on Kenny. The Ilitch family gave Holland complete autonomy and only got involved when Kenny thought it would help. Like when Mike Ilitch tried to recruit Suter.

I have a real hard time believing that, I think the streak was their baby, something the ownership and management both took a great deal of pride in and wanted to continue to build on. Kenny says he was never pressured to keep the streak alive, I take that as them (Mike and the Ilitch family) not needing to pressure him - he understood it was important to them, I'm sure it was important to him and my guess is that he tried to make it work until it didn't.
Obviously I'm speculating here, I think the streak was a big deal to them and they were willing to sacrifice a few rebuilding years to stretch it out.
 
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The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
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I have a real hard time believing that, I think the streak was their baby, something the ownership and management both took a great deal of pride in and wanted to continue to build on. Kenny says he was never pressured to keep the streak alive, I take that as them (Mike and the Ilitch family) not needing to pressure him - he understood it was important to them, I'm sure it was important to him and my guess is that he tried to make it work until it didn't.
Obviously I'm speculating here, I think the streak was a big deal to them and they were willing to sacrifice a few rebuilding years to stretch it out.

He did outright admit that after 2015 he didn't buy which he didn't. But I know what was he supposed to say... I am an idiot if I listen to him...

The streak was important because it should be important. It was unique, heck the streak of being the last team just in the cap era was cool too. We were going to get here regardless, that is the reality. We are here now and he has two years to show the Ilitch family that he is leading them out of this and restarting another winning chapter.

He should've gutted it in the hallway 5 seconds after Lidstrom's shot was stopped by MAF obviously. I mean we all saw it.... :sarcasm:
 
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StargateSG1

Registered User
Nov 26, 2016
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I have a real hard time believing that, I think the streak was their baby, something the ownership and management both took a great deal of pride in and wanted to continue to build on. Kenny says he was never pressured to keep the streak alive, I take that as them (Mike and the Ilitch family) not needing to pressure him - he understood it was important to them, I'm sure it was important to him and my guess is that he tried to make it work until it didn't.
Obviously I'm speculating here, I think the streak was a big deal to them and they were willing to sacrifice a few rebuilding years to stretch it out.

Kenny goes on record today saying it was his call, not ownership, to push for the playoffs all these past few years and not rebuild sooner. If you want to call him a liar than that's up to you.
But that's the excuse Kenny's slappies have been using for a long, long time now and it is officially dead.
Jamie and Stoney
 

Goalie guy

Registered User
Jul 8, 2011
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It’s generic problem solving. You don’t change everything all at once because then if it fails, you won’t know why it failed or vice versa.
Yep keep it simple so you know the part or parts that fixed the problem. A lot of people have a hard time with that.
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
40,956
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Kenny goes on record today saying it was his call, not ownership, to push for the playoffs all these past few years and not rebuild sooner. If you want to call him a liar than that's up to you.
But that's the excuse Kenny's slappies have been using for a long, long time now and it is officially dead.
Jamie and Stoney

You're replying to a post where he said, I doubt the Ilitch's needed to even verbalize that they liked the streak. They were trademarking it and talking about it a lot because Ken Holland the rouge agent was making it happen, is the claim right?

The streak was clearly important to all involved, why wouldn't it be, it was a tremendous accomplishment. But none of that matters now.

What Ken Holland does in the full on rebuild is what matters. The vision he has sold them that earned him his new contract matters a ton. I have heard a lot of things I like, now he needs to go out and do them.
 

KJoe88

Forever Lost.
May 18, 2012
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And I quote " We have tried and want to draft bigger, there are some really good small teams out there and bigger ones as well. We want to be a bigger team!" He came right out and said it. Is it bad? I don't know if we get size with skill I am all for it. I just don't want size for size over skill.

Keyword is ‘draft’.

If you think we’re going to be a team of all giants you might want to rethink that perspective.

You took ‘big’ way too literally
 

kliq

Registered User
Dec 17, 2017
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Kenny goes on record today saying it was his call, not ownership, to push for the playoffs all these past few years and not rebuild sooner. If you want to call him a liar than that's up to you.
But that's the excuse Kenny's slappies have been using for a long, long time now and it is officially dead.
Jamie and Stoney

I find it funny how when Holland says something that fits someone's narrative, its as if what he said is gospel, but when he says something that goes against someone's narrative, it should obviously be questioned.

With your logic everything Holland says is therefore definitive and gospel. Please don't tell me you believe everything he says.

I have said it before, and I will say it again. Press conferences are BS and I find it hysterical that so many people hang on every single word that Holland says. Holland is speaking to ownership, players, staff, season ticket holders, hardcore fans, casual fans etc. The reason why he likely sounds the way he does is because he is probably filtering what he can and cannot say in his head.

To be clear, this isnt a Holland thing, this is a GM thing in all sports. I never take this stuff seriously. It may be nice to hear certain things, but to me its no different then listening to politicians, its all to put out a specific narrative.
 

WingsMJN2965

Registered User
Oct 13, 2017
18,106
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Great he will try to get more defense, takes longer to develop them. So first round will be best possible d

Ehh, if you get 2 or 3 you still pick Svech or Zadina.

... But other than that, yes, they should be going for D.
 

Winger98

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
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In your opinion, maybe he didn't any. We don't know because so much of a rebuild is luck anyway. Maybe by Holland limping along he got to the point he got his lucky two building blocks anyway in the next two years. Before that the lottery balls went for **** and we were stuck with meh players that kept us in the Carolina sucker hole.

That is entirely his point, Buffalo did exactly what people want they even have a young #1 C and D, a really good #2C and they were the worst team in the league this year... I am confused by that but we shall see. This process doesn't have certainties as much as people like to attach them anyway.

They had some injury issues, their goalies were below average, and they had a new, inexperienced coach. I really don't get why Buffalo rushed into canning Murray and Bylsma. Bylsma is not a bad coach, and Murray had assembled a lot of talent there. I didn't really like Murray, he seemed to run his mouth to the press too much, but I had a hard time arguing against the talent he was putting together.
 

chances14

Registered User
Jan 7, 2010
10,396
499
Michigan
They had some injury issues, their goalies were below average, and they had a new, inexperienced coach. I really don't get why Buffalo rushed into canning Murray and Bylsma. Bylsma is not a bad coach, and Murray had assembled a lot of talent there. I didn't really like Murray, he seemed to run his mouth to the press too much, but I had a hard time arguing against the talent he was putting together.
wasn't it reported that eichel wanted bylsma gone?
 

kliq

Registered User
Dec 17, 2017
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Signing players to SEVEN YEAR contracts doesn't mortgage a teams future?

Lol get real.

Can you name an example of a player we couldn't afford to sign, or an example of a player we had to let walk away because of that contract? No doubt its an awful contract, I would never argue against that, but what in particular was "mortgaged".

I'll give you an example from another teams. Chicago signed Bickel to a 4 year contract, and to move it they ended up losing Teuvo Teravainen. That signing DID mortgage the future.

I know you like to be cynical for the sake of being cynical, but it would be nice if you could provide at least something to back up your claims opposed to just one liners.
 
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WingedWheel1987

Registered User
Jan 11, 2011
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Being locked into multiple horrendous contracts for 5+ years is bad.

This isn't rocket science.

Rebuilding teams need cap flexibility.

I'm sorry but if you don't think Holland's actions the past five seasons haven't negatively impacted the Wings future, then you clearly just don't live in the real world.


Also I'm not being cynical. I just don't sugar coat ****.
 

kliq

Registered User
Dec 17, 2017
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Being locked into multiple horrendous contracts for 5+ years is bad.

This isn't rocket science.

Rebuilding teams need cap flexibility.

I'm sorry but if you don't think Holland's actions the past five seasons haven't negatively impacted the Wings future, then you clearly just don't live in the real world.

I see you are side stepping the question with more 1 liners. "This isn't rocket science." "you clearly just don't live in the real world", why don't you post with actual substance.

I never said that those contracts were good, I flat out admitted in my original post that they were mistakes. You however said that Abbys contract (I assume because you said a 7 year contract and that has to be Abby) was morgaging the teams future. I am simply asking you to name one example of how it did that.

There is a difference between saying, "Abby's contract was a poor contract" and "Abby's contract screwed us for years!" Just because I don't agree with the second statement, doesn't mean that I don't agree with the first statement.

So once again, can you provide some actual substance? Or are you just going to call me an idiot, say Holland sucks, or something lacking any actual facts/value?

You said "Rebuilding teams need cap flexibility."

Can you give me an example of something Holland could do right now if he had cap flexibility? Is there something that you want him to do? Flexibility is more so needed when you are a contender and you want to add. If we ever run into a situation where we need cap to re-sign RFA's I'm sure some of those vets will be moved. As for right now, I dont think its "mortgaging their future".
 

WingedWheel1987

Registered User
Jan 11, 2011
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I see you are side stepping the question with more 1 liners. "This isn't rocket science." "you clearly just don't live in the real world", why don't you post with actual substance.

I never said that those contracts were good, I flat out admitted in my original post that they were mistakes. You however said that Abbys contract (I assume because you said a 7 year contract and that has to be Abby) was morgaging the teams future. I am simply asking you to name one example of how it did that.

There is a difference between saying, "Abby's contract was a poor contract" and "Abby's contract screwed us for years!" Just because I don't agree with the second statement, doesn't mean that I don't agree with the first statement.

So once again, can you provide some actual substance? Or are you just going to call me an idiot, say Holland sucks, or something lacking any actual facts/value?

You want me to provide evidence that Abby's contract has hurt the Wings long term future?

The fact that he is still going to be on the roster five years from now is proof enough.

The guy isn't even worth his contract right now. Negative value contracts can only hurt a team.
 

kliq

Registered User
Dec 17, 2017
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You want me to provide evidence that Abby's contract has hurt the Wings long term future?

The fact that he is still going to be on the roster five years from now is proof enough.

The guy isn't even worth his contract right now. Negative value contracts can only hurt a team.

I asked you for an example of how it was "mortgaging their future" which you are clearly not going to give me. because there isnt one.
I gave you an example with Chicago where that happened, in Detroit that's just not the case as of now.

My point is that you are being over the top, which you are.
 
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Redder Winger

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May 4, 2017
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I see you are side stepping the question with more 1 liners. "This isn't rocket science." "you clearly just don't live in the real world", why don't you post with actual substance.

I never said that those contracts were good, I flat out admitted in my original post that they were mistakes. You however said that Abbys contract (I assume because you said a 7 year contract and that has to be Abby) was morgaging the teams future. I am simply asking you to name one example of how it did that.

There is a difference between saying, "Abby's contract was a poor contract" and "Abby's contract screwed us for years!" Just because I don't agree with the second statement, doesn't mean that I don't agree with the first statement.

So once again, can you provide some actual substance? Or are you just going to call me an idiot, say Holland sucks, or something lacking any actual facts/value?

You said "Rebuilding teams need cap flexibility."

Can you give me an example of something Holland could do right now if he had cap flexibility? Is there something that you want him to do? Flexibility is more so needed when you are a contender and you want to add. If we ever run into a situation where we need cap to re-sign RFA's I'm sure some of those vets will be moved. As for right now, I dont think its "mortgaging their future".

Simple logic is this Kliq - the more money you have tied up in mediocre, low-skill players, the more likely you are to be a mediocre, low-skill team. And if those contracts are long-term deals, you can expect that low-skill mediocrity to last longer.

Ken Holland locked himself into the mediocrity.
Realistically, you're looking at 5 years before this team turns it around. And that's only if Rasmussen and whoever we pick over the next year or two turn into core players within 5 years.

Who else is gonna turn this team around?
Larkin? By himself?
Mantha has work ethic issues.
Zetterberg is just wasting development minutes.
Nyquist?
AA is probably traded soon.
Svechnikov doesn't look good.
Bertuzzi looks like a complimentary guy (the kind who'll get overpaid if Kenny or a protege are around when he gets his deal in a few years).

On defense? Cholo? Hronek? Hicketts?
That's three pretty big maybes, to put it politely.

So yeah. 5 years.
If things go well.

Those last 5 years we spent spinning our tires had consequences.
 
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kliq

Registered User
Dec 17, 2017
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Simple logic is this Kliq - the more money you have tied up in mediocre, low-skill players, the more likely you are to be a mediocre, low-skill team. And if those contracts are long-term deals, you can expect that low-skill mediocrity to last longer.

Ken Holland locked himself into the mediocrity.
Realistically, you're looking at 5 years before this team turns it around. And that's only if Rasmussen and whoever we pick over the next year or two turn into core players within 5 years.

Trust me Redder, I dont question for a moment your ability to explain yourself lol.

To your actual point though, you have said it yourself, those contracts can be moved. Realistically, if we retain a million here, a million there, we could move guys Helm, E, etc. We may have to hold on to a few mil in retained cap, but I wouldnt go as far as to say we are "mortgaging our future" which is what I was arguing with WingedWheel.
 

WingedWheel1987

Registered User
Jan 11, 2011
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GPP Michigan
I asked you for an example of how it was "mortgaging their future" which you are clearly not going to give me. because there isnt one.
I gave you an example with Chicago where that happened, in Detroit that's just not the case as of now.

My point is that you are being over the top, which you are.

LOL

Ken Holland signed Gator because he thought it would help the Wings stay competitive in the short term and not worry about the long term ramifications of such a terrible deal.

That’s called mortgaging a teams future.
 

kliq

Registered User
Dec 17, 2017
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LOL

Ken Holland signed Gator because he thought it would help the Wings stay competitive in the short term and not worry about the long term ramifications of such a terrible deal.

That’s called mortgaging a teams future.

Agreed with the bold, but the rest is hyperbole.
 

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