Ken Dryden on the Lockout

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Wetcoaster

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Former Habs great, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, past executive with the Toronto Maple Leafs, lawyer, acclaimed hockey author and federal cabinet minister weighed in on the dispute yesterday when in Wilcox, Saskatchewan at Father Athol Murray College of Notre Dame.

The Regina Leader Post reports Dryden called on the owners to move off their demand for a hard cap and find a middle ground between a hard cap and no cap.

"There's still time. If there is the will and the way, there's the time. It depends on the parties, but they have to sort of seek out agreement. Up to now, I think that they have effectively sought out deadlock. That haven't tried any kind of ground that they can both inhabit."

"The (middle) ground is somewhere between hard cap and no cap."

I know the omwers pretty well and i know that what is absolutley the case is that owners cannot and will not exercise restraint.. They can't. And i think that the reason why they can't, even though they do it in the rest of their lives and their other businesses, is that they discover that there's no privilege to being an owner. There's only privilege to being an owner that wins.


Ken Dryden's solution????? A luxury tax with teeth.

I nominate Ken Dryden as as mediator in this dispute. Maybe someone of his stature and intellect, along with impeccable hockey credentials, can get the process moving.
 

no13matssundin

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Wetcoaster said:
I nominate Ken Dryden as as mediator in this dispute. Maybe someone of his stature and intellect, along with impeccable hockey credentials, can get the process moving.

:lol

Ken Dryden? Intellect? Rrrrrrright.

Just because the guy could stop a puck and uses big words, a hockey intellect he is not.

Ken Dryden.. mediator. Gold.
 

Greschner4

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The NBA has a soft cap and a luxury tax and the New York Knicks have a payroll of double the tax threshold.

MLB has a luxury tax and the New York Yankees' 2005 payroll is going to be 50-70% above the tax threshold. With their massive spending spree this offseason, including on a guy who, were MLB the NFL, would be continuing his brilliant career in small-market Kansas City, the New York Mets may join the Yankees over the threshold.

The NFL has a hard cap and the New York Giants and New York Jets spend no more on players than a bunch of other teams.

The same buffonish dolt who's blown through double the NBA threshold with the Knicks also owns the Rangers. If you're trying to keep his spending down, which model are you going to pick?

It's easy ... right?
 

417

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Even though i've been quite anti-NHLPA, I will agree that the owners are being stubborne, but it's their league and if they want to stipulate what type of system it is run under, it's well within their right,
 

Charge_Seven

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Greschner4 said:
The NBA has a soft cap and a luxury tax and the New York Knicks have a payroll of double the tax threshold.

MLB has a luxury tax and the New York Yankees' 2005 payroll is going to be 50-70% above the tax threshold. With their massive spending spree this offseason, including on a guy who, were MLB the NFL, would be continuing his brilliant career in small-market Kansas City, the New York Mets may join the Yankees over the threshold.

The NFL has a hard cap and the New York Giants and New York Jets spend no more on players than a bunch of other teams.

The same buffonish dolt who's blown through double the NBA threshold with the Knicks also owns the Rangers. If you're trying to keep his spending down, which model are you going to pick?


It's easy ... right?

So what is the NBA/MLB luxury tax at these days? Their taxes have no teeth, one with teeth would be at a dollar per dollar value, or even more.
 

BLONG7

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no13matssundin said:
:lol

Ken Dryden? Intellect? Rrrrrrright.

Just because the guy could stop a puck and uses big words, a hockey intellect he is not.

Ken Dryden.. mediator. Gold.
Let Domi be his asst. and let the intelligence run wild!!! :lol :joker:
 

Wetcoaster

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417 TO MTL said:
Even though i've been quite anti-NHLPA, I will agree that the owners are being stubborne, but it's their league and if they want to stipulate what type of system it is run under, it's well within their right,

No it is not. That is why this is referred to as a COLLECTIVE Bargaining Agreement and that is why there are anti-trust laws.
 

CarlRacki

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GregStack said:
So what is the NBA/MLB luxury tax at these days? Their taxes have no teeth, one with teeth would be at a dollar per dollar value, or even more.

The problem with the NBA and MLB tax isn't so much whether they have teeth, but rich owners who don't mind paying the tax. The Portland Trailblazers paid a $52 million (!!) luxury tax a couple years back. But since the team's owner is Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen that's chump change. Ditto for MLB and Steinbrenner.
That's the inherent problem with a luxury tax. It may serve as a disincentive - perhaps even a strong disincentive - but it's no guarantee salaries will come down.
 

thinkwild

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What a concept from Dryden - the owners budge off their position. Wow. Could it happen?

Perhaps the owners can win some control or cooperation from the players. To have the players work with with them better. The players will have to make some humbling concessions to give owners some power and recognize their ownership. Maybe this form of capitulation could be the trade off for the NHL moving off the hardline position.

Dryden make a good point the ownership in sports cant restrain themselves. Maybe there is a good reason for it, and the owners have been too embarassed to say it, but maybe if the players could acknowledge it they would have a starting point. Theres volumes being written about sports cbas and labour. I wish academia could at least pronounce whether the owners position is a pure power grab not needed for the best health of the league. As much as many fans say they cant understand why the players cant accept a cap, i question why the owners need it, when so few of the economists support that When all the owners reasons are one by one exploded as myths, i cant believe them.

Maybe Deryden could mediate
 

CarlRacki

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Wetcoaster said:
No it is not. That is why this is referred to as a COLLECTIVE Bargaining Agreement and that is why there are anti-trust laws.

Read the law, counselor. Nothing in labor law (U.S., anyways) says one side must come off its position for it to be found to have been bargaining in bad faith.
 

BLONG7

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Leafer4Life said:
I happen to agree with Dryden. The Players and The Owners need to find some kind of middle ground to save the season........
Love to see it happen... but...the owners are out to save the sport and the league, not the season...
 

Sammy*

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Wetcoaster said:
No it is not. That is why this is referred to as a COLLECTIVE Bargaining Agreement and that is why there are anti-trust laws.
Hey Bud, you better brush up on your labor law cause its apprent you dont have a clue on this one.
 

Greschner4

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GregStack said:
So what is the NBA/MLB luxury tax at these days? Their taxes have no teeth, one with teeth would be at a dollar per dollar value, or even more.

I believe the NBA's is dollar for dollar above around 53 mil. Not 100% sure though.
 

Greschner4

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Wetcoaster said:
No it is not. That is why this is referred to as a COLLECTIVE Bargaining Agreement and that is why there are anti-trust laws.

Collective bargaining refers to the players being able to gather together as a collective to bargain work terms, instead of having to do it one by one.
 

hockeytown9321

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Greschner4 said:
The NFL has a hard cap and the New York Giants and New York Jets spend no more on players than a bunch of other teams.

But the Wahington Redskins do. Their payroll was over $20 million more than the "hard" cap.
 

Brent Burns Beard

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GregStack said:
So what is the NBA/MLB luxury tax at these days? Their taxes have no teeth, one with teeth would be at a dollar per dollar value, or even more.
the owners are not interested in a tax with teeth. this is classified as "revenue" sharing and they want no part in it.

hard cap or nothing.

period.

dr
 

CarlRacki

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hockeytown9321 said:
But the Wahington Redskins do. Their payroll was over $20 million more than the "hard" cap.

Do a little reading. "Payroll" and "cap figure" are not synonymous in the NFL. The payroll is higher as a result of signing bonuses that are paid NOW. However, under the cap structure those bonuses are spread out over the life of the contract.
And all of this is moot because the NHL will not do away with guaranteed contracts. No non-guaranteed contracts = no big signing bonuses.
 

Greschner4

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hockeytown9321 said:
But the Wahington Redskins do. Their payroll was over $20 million more than the "hard" cap.

Yeah, and their payments to guys not playing for them was over $20 million and there will be years where they will have to spend less than the cap because of this dead money.

The Redskin paradox only exists because of signing bonuses anyway. If you eliminate them, like the NBA does, you won't have the problem.
 

hockeytown9321

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Greschner4 said:
Yeah, and their payments to guys not playing for them was over $20 million and there will be years where they will have to spend less than the cap because of this dead money.

The Redskin paradox only exists because of signing bonuses anyway. If you eliminate them, like the NBA does, you won't have the problem.

So the NHL should shoot for the NBA's system, right?
 

Morbo

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Interesting.

"there's only privilege to being an owner that wins".

How is that principle going to play out in Bettman's Red Commie NHL?

How likely is it that ALL(or even, a disproportionate number of)the teams in weak revenue markets are going to win enough to boost their fan support?

This will be necessary, because those are the teams with a disproportionate need to increase their revenues. In some cases, they must increase them rather dramatically.
 

Morbo

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hockeytown9321 said:
So the NHL should shoot for the NBA's system, right?

Not if they want parity and 30 smiling Comrade owners.

I don't know the exact number, but very few teams have won championships in the NBA in recent years.
 

hockeytown9321

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PepNCheese said:
Not if they want parity and 30 smiling Comrade owners.

I don't know the exact number, but very few teams have won championships in the NBA in recent years.

Since the NBA's current CBA went into effect:

98-99: Spurs
99-00: Lakers
00-01: Lakers
01-02: Lakers
02-03: Spurs
03-04: Pistons
 

Morbo

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hockeytown9321 said:
Since the NBA's current CBA went into effect:

98-99: Spurs
99-00: Lakers
00-01: Lakers
01-02: Lakers
02-03: Spurs
03-04: Pistons

Good thing the Pistons snuck in there.

The Spurs are pretty good this year. ;)
 
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