Not to sound chauvinist, but that means that 80% of the ordinary people are what? Dumb?
Keeping Players out of Canadian Junior Leagues
- Thread starter Pavel Buchnevich
- Start date
Not to sound chauvinist, but that means that 80% of the ordinary people are what? Dumb?
When it comes to understanding differences in hockey systems, training methods and figuring out ideal situations for teenage hockey prospects, it's not 80%.
It's probably 99.999999%
That's a joke on its own. Having some teenage twitter poser identifying talent is just sad. Either the organization is a joke or the state of agencies is desperate.
Only thing you can do is make staying at home more attractive. 1 way to do this is reinstate the MHL U18 team.
Say what you will about skill level of MHL but a majority of Russian guys drafted the past 2 years were guys who played some time in the MHL. Russia did good job by creating MHL, if players think they are too good for it - let them go and wreck themselves. Ive got my money on Kravstov and Denisienko having a better season than any of the guys leaving. The one that depresses me leaving the most is Zavgorodny. No way he should be going to the Q at 17, Alexeyev 2.0
Say what you will about skill level of MHL but a majority of Russian guys drafted the past 2 years were guys who played some time in the MHL. Russia did good job by creating MHL, if players think they are too good for it - let them go and wreck themselves. Ive got my money on Kravstov and Denisienko having a better season than any of the guys leaving. The one that depresses me leaving the most is Zavgorodny. No way he should be going to the Q at 17, Alexeyev 2.0
RossiyaSport
Registered User
I think a way to fight this is to put the pressure on the CHL and continually expose and explain why this practice is ruining Russian players. A main problem is few people really understand why going to CHL at 17 is so bad for a Russian players career. They try to invent narratives about the language barrier (even though the players tear up the CHL and their regression exposed later as they try to climb the ladder to the NHL) when it has everything to do with trying to learn a new hockey style without mastering the previous one.
The NHL is now hip to this and are avoiding using higher picks on Russians who went to the CHL. This will help solve the problem because if the kids that go to the CHL are dropping far in the draft what do predatory agents really have to sell the player on.
I think the problem is improving gradually and the results of the last two drafts are a big wakeup call to a lot of the Russian kids. But its a two steps forward one step back kinda thing. Some players still get suckered into this. Players who smartly avoided it like Lipanov and Kostin then get pressured into it a year later.
But I think as far as like activism the most successful thing is probably to target CHL leadership and pressure them into reforms. Such as no drafting of players under 18. Limiting the amount of players that can be drafted from one country. And perhaps allow the Russian hockey federation to put a certain number of players on a protected list that CHL will promise not to draft.
The NHL is now hip to this and are avoiding using higher picks on Russians who went to the CHL. This will help solve the problem because if the kids that go to the CHL are dropping far in the draft what do predatory agents really have to sell the player on.
I think the problem is improving gradually and the results of the last two drafts are a big wakeup call to a lot of the Russian kids. But its a two steps forward one step back kinda thing. Some players still get suckered into this. Players who smartly avoided it like Lipanov and Kostin then get pressured into it a year later.
But I think as far as like activism the most successful thing is probably to target CHL leadership and pressure them into reforms. Such as no drafting of players under 18. Limiting the amount of players that can be drafted from one country. And perhaps allow the Russian hockey federation to put a certain number of players on a protected list that CHL will promise not to draft.
Last edited:
CHL would never change their practices. I don't even think they place a big priority on developing foreign players.
To them the job of foreign players is to strengthen the league for Canadian kids.
This won't be a wake up call. Neither kids nor their parents do any in depth research themselves. They listen to their advisors, aka agents.
Russian U18 team was a great idea, are they bringing that back?
To them the job of foreign players is to strengthen the league for Canadian kids.
This won't be a wake up call. Neither kids nor their parents do any in depth research themselves. They listen to their advisors, aka agents.
Russian U18 team was a great idea, are they bringing that back?
I think two u18 teams or an u17 and u18 team like the USA does would be a great help. That saves over 40 of the countries best players. In US some players leave after one year to the CHL to get more icetime so that may happen if Russia had a two year u17-u18 program.
I've often wondered why journalists do not take on this issue. The failure rate among guys who go to NA is staggering. One reason may be that many of the icons of Russian hockey are on the other side - making money by sending talent to NA. Read Larionov and Makarov among the most successful agents.
vorky
@vorkywh24
- Jan 23, 2010
- 11,413
- 1,272
Journalists - I can say I know Russian hockey journalist very well. Of course, not all are bad, some of them are really good. First problem is that many of them are not into junior hockey, only Soloviev is junior hockey writer & he is fair in my eyes. Dekhtyarov is biggest NHL fan on the Earth & announcer at Eurosport (broadcasting NHL games in Russia), Lysenkov writing for Russian version of nhl.com, Schevchenko´s agenda is to blame KHL & Chernyshenko for everything, even the weather. Erykalov is from Novosibirsk, he does not care about junior hockey. RSport journalists job is to make interviews. Eronko is also on Eurosport covering NHL, some of his interviews are good (the best is his interview with Kuperman, where he said the truth about NHL & European players). That is all. Then there are bloggers, who are mainly NHL fans, so do not have problems with Russians moving to CHL.
What Makarov is an agent? I know only Sergei Mikhailovich Makarov, but he does not look like NA hockey fan to me. I am not deep into agents, but Alexei Dementiev seems reasonable, not taking kids to NA if not necessary. Larionov is the worst,no doubt about it.
As you indicate, many Russian hockey writers are tied into the NHL with income from NHL sources. They won't take a critical look at issues that don't go along with the premise that the NHL is the best place to be.
Larionov was the biggest critic of the Soviet system, even though he benefitted personally from it with millions on top of millions of dollars. Wonder how things would have gone for him if stayed in Voskresensk as a factory worker or youth coach?
So, does this means that Fetisov and Larionov are on 2 separate sides on this issue and are battling against each other?
Fetisov and Larionov have been friends for a long time, but I definitely believe that they are on opposite sides on this issue. Every victory for an NHL franchise in securing a Russian player is a loss for the KHL.
vorky
@vorkywh24
- Jan 23, 2010
- 11,413
- 1,272
Agree with most of it.
There was always an arc. Larionov was always an individualist with weak values who embraced his bolting to NA as the best thing to happen to him and never felt any connection to "his country that gave him all" to quote a very liberal modern russian writer. And then there was Kasatonov who was always a voice of reason between the 5 of KLM and Fetisov&Kasatonov. A voice respected by the others, also Fetisov who always was considered the leader of the group. Kasatonov was never fond of the situation that forced them to leave home AND hurt russian hockey by doing so. They've had a bigger misunderstanding about it with Fetisov at one point. And it was Fetisov who apologized afterwards and they could seemingly get along again. Kasatonov was the quiet guy who everybody would listen to even if wouldn't say a word. Fetisov was somewhere inbetween Kasatonov and Larionov. While he was younger he lead the rebellion against Tikhonov. But he regretted it in the end. Larionov never did. Now Fetisov is in opposition to some KHL brass, but he is still in general a man with his idea of how russian hockey should develop. I am not his biggest supporter, but at least he cares as it seems. All Larionov ever cared about was his personal xclusive VIP arse. There is no irrational hate towards him. I would agree with him on some things. But I do know he is not really interested in hockey in Russia.
U18 team, or teams, can definitely help.
I would also push hard for loaning of players to be a more regular occurrence.
Situations such as CSKA and SKA are also a big reason why kids leave.
I would also push hard for loaning of players to be a more regular occurrence.
Situations such as CSKA and SKA are also a big reason why kids leave.
I am firmly with Fetisov. They need to tie the best young players down with central contracts to the RHF and most importantly of all ensure they have a clear progression path to the KHL. KHL teams need to be given a memo that they have to develop the best talent further and give them a chance to flourish. If necessary compulsory spots and orders from the Ministry that they must have playing time. And have a u18 team(s) within the MHL from which the KHL teams can draft a player.
nelli27
Moderator
M. Gutsov has been drafted by the London Knights of the Ontario hockey league (CHL Import Draft). Does anyone know the likelihood that he'll report ? Is he under contract in Russia?
cska78
Registered User
Quick Question, I see that Maxim Zhukov(G) transferred to Barrie Colts in the OHL, I thought CHL teams couldn't sign foreign goalies, with some special clause of having played N amount of seasons in Canada (or is it North America and he is ok, since he played USHL?)
Caser
@RUSProspects
cska78
Registered User
Amazing that give and go over the big pond. No really, once you see one of them doing it right they come up with another mind blowing stunt...
cska78
Registered User
Caser
@RUSProspects
In terms of CHL yes: 10 players are moving there this year comparing to 16-17 players in previous 4 years.
US based leagues are showing growth though: USHL and NAHL leagues are showing slow, but constant increase in terms of players from Russia; NCDC and other USPHL leagues have been extremely active in recruiting from Russia in the previous season (16 players total, if I counted correctly, not elite, of course, but still there are decent MHL guys like Dedov); and, of course, in NCAA we have Iskhakov's precedent.
Ad
Upcoming events
-
-
-
-
-
Series Winner Boston Bruins vs Toronto Maple LeafsWagers: 6Staked: $2,110.00Event closes
- Updated: