KC now asked for 10's on mil's for a 'practice facility' to attract team

Discussion in 'The Business of Hockey' started by Jaded-Fan, Jan 11, 2007.

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  1. Jaded-Fan

    Jaded-Fan Registered User

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    Article in KC about perhaps having to pay tens of millions for a practice facility to attract a team (can you hear the desperation):

    Mayor Reveals City Could Shell Out for Practice Facility
    The idea could cost millions and contradict promises that the city was done paying to lure a Sprint Center tenant.
    By Eric Barton
    Article Published Jan 11, 2007

    http://www.pitch.com/Issues/2007-01-11/news/webexclusive.html

    Quote from that article:

    Over the last two years, Leiweke had promised on several occasions that the Sprint Center would have a pro hockey or NBA team by the time the doors open to the facility in October (“We’re Pucked,†September 7). But lately, Leiweke and Barnes have backed off that promise, saying that it’s more likely a team, if they’re able to find one, wouldn’t come until 2008.


    Within that article was a link to one in September that is a great read and very telling. I quoted some passages but the whole article is worth reading:

    We're Pucked
    Seven big-league hockey and basketball teams have rejected Kansas City. When the Sprint Center opens, will anyone love us?
    By Justin Kendall

    Article Published Sep 7, 2006

    With no arena tenant to dish about, Mayor Barnes announces a new restaurant instead.Millionaire sports-team owners treat Kansas City like a mistress. They flirt with Kansas City. They call Kansas City's new arena pretty. They even tell Kansas City that they'd consider leaving their home cities for her. But it's all pillow talk.

    In the end, the owners get newer arenas, better leases and a bigger chunk of arena revenues from their current homes. Kansas City gets left with an empty arena.

    .......................


    In fact, none of the teams mentioned as possible Sprint Center tenants are still publicly discussing hanging their jerseys in Kansas City.

    Several factors have worked against Kansas City in its bid to land a team.

    · Experts say Kansas Citians don't have enough income to support another franchise.

    · Neither the NHL nor the NBA appears interested in Kansas City.

    · The competition is fierce, with cities such as Las Vegas and San Jose, California, likely to outbid any offer from Kansas City.

    · Most damning, no local millionaire or ownership group has expressed an interest in buying a team, something crucial to landing a tenant in the Sprint Center.

    ....................

    The team that seemed most likely to come to Kansas City appeared to be the NHL's Pittsburgh Penguins. The team went up for sale in January, and prospective buyer Sam Fingold suggested this May that he'd move the team here. Fingold, a 34-year-old Connecticut real estate developer, called Kansas City "one of the most under-served sports markets" in the country. Fingold told the Star: "I think Kansas City needs an NHL franchise, and I'd love to be the one to do it."

    But Pittsburgh stepped up to keep the team. Isle of Capri has agreed to build a $290 million arena if the Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board awards the casino company a slots license. If that doesn't work, Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell has devised a plan to pay for the arena with bonds that could be paid off by the Penguins in modest annual installments.

    With those two offers on the table, getting the Penguins to Kansas City for next year's opening of the Sprint Center would be virtually impossible. NHL rules forbid a team from moving if there's a plan to stabilize a team in its current city, and NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman has said he favors keeping the Penguins in Pittsburgh.

    ...........................

    (Mayor Kay) Barnes apparently wasn't aware of Kansas City's ranking as the No. 5 most overextended sports market in the country.

    American City Business Journals, the parent company of the Kansas City Business Journal, analyzed 179 markets earlier this year to see if residents had enough income to support pro sports teams. The study found that Kansas Citians can't even support the teams already here. To support a hockey or a basketball team, Kansas City would need another $100 billion in personal income. "There's a new arena going up in Kansas City, inspiring brave talk about pursuing a franchise in the NBA or NHL," according to the report. "But the hard truth is that the city has already lost teams in both of those leagues."


    http://www.pitch.com/Issues/2006-09-07/news/feature_2.html
     
  2. Jaded-Fan

    Jaded-Fan Registered User

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    The most interesting quote in todays article to me is the one where both Leiweke and Mayor Barnes have backed off the promise of a team in 2007, saying that it’s more likely a team, if they’re able to find one, wouldn’t come until 2008.

    Reality has set in. And desperation ($50 mil. practice facitilty) is showing.

    From the prior article from September quoted in todays, the fact that KC is already massively overextended as a sports market is very telling as well. Though that whole article is interesting to say the least.
     
  3. krudmonk

    krudmonk Registered User

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    ATTN: Kansas "Citians"

    San Jose already has a team.
     
  4. Jaded-Fan

    Jaded-Fan Registered User

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    I think that they were referring to an NBA team possibility.
     
  5. Weary

    Weary Registered User

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  6. London Knights

    London Knights Registered User

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    I don't have any real attachment to Pittsburgh. There are obviously dedicated fans there, but with ongoing problems and if they don't get a rink, I could care less if they get moved.

    But seriously, desperation is not where you move a franchise. Pittsburgh has problems because of the lack of arena. KC has the problem of having an arena and noone wanting to touch them. They bombed once as a market and they just shouldn't be enticing to the NHL. This would be one of the last places I would look to.

    I get moving to a stupid market if they have a big media advantage or something, but I do not get moving to an area that just wants a tenant for their building. There's a lot of instability in the hockey franchises in their history...albeit in lower professional levels for the most part.
     
  7. Big McLargehuge

    Big McLargehuge Registered User

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  8. Stevedude530

    Stevedude530 Registered User

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    Here are the markets 100% capable of supporting hockey, apparently:

    -Albany, NY
    -Austin, TX
    -Birmingham, AL
    -Dayton, OH
    -Grand Rapids, MI
    -Greensboro-Winston-Salem, NC
    -Harrisburg, PA
    -Hartford, CT
    -Honolulu, HI
    -Jackson, MS
    -Las Vegas, NV
    -Little Rock, AR
    -Louisville, KY
    -Oklahoma City, OK
    -Orlando, FL
    -Portland, OR
    -Richmond, VA
    -Rochester, NY
    -Sacramento, CA
    -Sarasota, FL
    -Tulsa, OK
    -Virginia Beach/Norfolk, VA
     
  9. TheDanceOfMaternity

    TheDanceOfMaternity Registered User

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    That's great that the Mayor and many city officials are being so welcoming and eager to bring an NHL franchise to Kansas City.


    And the arena looks incredible.


    But I will not be for it one bit until I hear that the PEOPLE actually want a team. More than just the Mayor of Washington DC wanted a baseball team, you know.
     
  10. Changeiscoming

    Changeiscoming Rebooting myself Sponsor

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    acccording to who
     
  11. Bear of Bad News

    Bear of Bad News HFBoards Escape Goat

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    The thread is ten posts long, including your response. It's pretty easy to figure out if you actually read it.
     
  12. Clarence Beeks

    Clarence Beeks Registered User

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    People actually live in Washington DC?
     
  13. bones21212

    bones21212 Registered User

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    as much as id love to see the scouts logo return ( the greatest logo ever if you ask me....) kansas city had their chance to be in the NHL once and blew it. so, sorry gang, no team for you. no team for quebec or winnipeg either. colorado, minnesota and atlanta shouldnt have teams. when you get a team and lose it, well you had your chance. and dont come asking for another team 20 years later. this is the n H l...not the n F l.
     
  14. Bobby Orr

    Bobby Orr Guest

    According to their spreadsheet, the NHL should be looking at one of the following, based solely on income:

    Houston
    Seattle
    Cleveland
    Orlando
    San Diego
    Indianapolis
    Portland
    Hartford
    Sacramento
    Kansas City
    Milwaukee

    I can't see the NHL moving to California/Florida anytime soon, so Orlando/SD/Sac. get tossed. Kansas City and Milwaukee are both on the top 10 overextended markets list, so throw them out. Cleveland is going through the Lebron James era, and is the smallest of the cities with 3 existing teams, so toss them out.

    ** Presented with Oscar-like passion **

    "And the nominees for best NHL U.S. expansion/relocation are..."

    Houston
    Seattle
    Indianapolis
    Portland
    Hartford

    History - All 5 cities have some hockey history
    Competition - 4 of those teams have NBA teams, 3 are in the bottom 10 in attendance, the 4th ranks 19th.
    Location - 4 teams are in the Mid-West/West, which is good for alignment purposes.
    TV - According to Bucci, Seattle, Portland and Hartford had the strongest tv ratings of any non-NHL city during the US/Can gold medal game a few years back, besting several existing NHL markets.
    Wild Card - Hartford has no pro franchises, is the highest on the list without a franchise, and rates #3 on the Web site's list of best metro area for a new team.

    "And the winner is..."

    "America's team, the Hartford Whalers"

    Places scratchy old 78 of Brass Bonanza on record player and cranks it to 11...

    In all seriousness, I'd probably go:

    1) Seattle/Portland
    2) Houston
    3) Hartford
    4) Indy

    I think the NHL needs more western presence for now, but the day will come when the whale returns!

    [Edit]

    This is most interesting part of the whole article:

    Personal Income Required to Support a Team/Potential Expansion Markets Based on Income

    MLB - 89.2b/0
    NBA - 38.4b/19
    NHL - 35.7b/23
    NFL - 33.0b/30
    MLS - 16.1b/73

    1) MLB is effectively saturated due to its high expenses.
    2) The NFL is the 800lb gorilla revenue wise, and has potential to expand into 30 new markets, more than any other league outside of MLS. Yikes! I can't see baseball ever catching NFL for #1. I could see NBA catching MLB for #2.
     
    Last edited by moderator : Jan 20, 2007
  15. Bear of Bad News

    Bear of Bad News HFBoards Escape Goat

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    Wow. Just wow.

    Your post shows one of the most profound lacks of historical knowledge I've seen on this board. Well-done. :shakehead
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2007
  16. GSC2k2*

    GSC2k2* Guest

    I don't know if anyone delved further into the article identifying "over-extended markets" and read their methodology, but in short:

    It is a joke.
     
  17. CHRDANHUTCH

    CHRDANHUTCH Registered User

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    bones:

    make up your mind

    KC doesn't have a team; Quebec has the QMJHL; Winnipeg got the Moose when Phoenix was acquired and Minnesota got the Wild----Atlanta had the Flames, now the Thrashers, are u saying now Calgary shouldn't have the Flames when they've been there for 25 years ?:shakehead
     
  18. Westguy13

    Westguy13 Registered User

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    Actually there have been multiple polls taken in the area in the last 5+ years asking which they would rather have an NHL or NBA team and every time they came back overwhelmingly towards an NHL franchise. The Arena was built with the intention of drawing an NHL team and if they couldn't get one an NBA team.

    For all of those saying "KC shouldn't get a team cause they've failed before" or "It's proven theirs no market for hockey in KC" thats just flat out ignorance talking.

    A poorly ran expansion team failing 30+ years ago does not indicate lack of interest in the sport in 2007. The CHL Witchita Thunder have pulled in strong numbers for going on 14 years now. The AHL Kansas City Blues left due to ownership issues dispite regularly turning a profit. The IHL Kansas City Blades were one of the few teams in the league to actually turn a profit before the IHL folded in 92.
     
  19. CHRDANHUTCH

    CHRDANHUTCH Registered User

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    Wichita is not KC AND if u want to lay the blame on the demise of the KC Blades blame the AHL, not the NHL. AND THE I folded in 2001, not 1992.
     
  20. Isles72

    Isles72 Registered User

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    Last edited: Jan 20, 2007
  21. Westguy13

    Westguy13 Registered User

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    Lol when did I blame the demise of the KC Blades on the NHL? The league folded I didn't put blame on anyone. And sorry typed 92 meant to type 02 (so off by a year.) And I say Witchita because it is showing interest in the area not specifically KC but to contradict the "Kansans don't like hockey" people out there.

    So did you have a point to that post other then to contradict the facts in my post that really didn't matter that much to the entire point of said post?
     
  22. CHRDANHUTCH

    CHRDANHUTCH Registered User

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    Westguy13:

    Sprint Center is in Kansas City, correct, the point is what does the Wichita Thunder have to do w/ KC UNLESS the Thunder are moving there at some point.

    and Again, it's 2001 not 1992 or 2002, the IHL HISTORICAL reference, my point is the NHL had nothing to do w/ the demise of the IHL, there was no advantage or disadvantage the NHL OR their teams gained of the expansion or merger of the I AND AHL.

    If Kansas City hockey fans didn't support all of their previous attempts and attendance has bared them out or other factors, there obviously aren't enough hockey fans to legitimately sustain a profitable franchise, why are the only successful sports teams there other than Kansas University, the Chiefs & Royals and the NBA Kings weren't exactly theirs to begin with, didn't they start out in Rochester & Cincinnati as the Royals. The KC Outlaws weren't given a fair chance to establish their identity as a hockey team much less legitimize the KC Market for hockey.

    The reason I put the blame on KC IS that it wasn't the Blades choice to be dissolved because the NHL DIDN'T acquire the IHL, the AHL ACQUIRED the I and there's a good reason why our league has the rule we have--all u have to do is look at the lower leagues and the recent dissolution of the Florida Seals of the SPHL.
     
  23. Westguy13

    Westguy13 Registered User

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    Like I said the point was that Kansas does have interest in hockey. No it's not KC I'll accept your point on this one.

    Yeah like I said I mistyped sorry I guess all my points are compeltly unvaild cause I mistyped. Also 2002, 2001 who gives a **** lol I was recalling off the top of my head I guess I should go research everything I say from now on to a T. Nobody ever said the NHL had anything to do with the demise of the IHL and I don't see what it has to do with the arguement. The point being made was that the blades supported themselves until the IHL folded which shows interest in hockey in the recent past.

    I don't even know what you're trying to say here actually.... A failiure 30 years ago to keep a poorly run expansion franchise (pre expansion draft) has no baring on a 2007 franchise with a great future. If this logic held true Denver and Atlanta wouldn't have teams right now either. And you say failed hockey teams which the Blades did turn a profit and that was the most recent franchise.

    uhhh doesn't that support my side of the arguement? It wasn't the Blades choice to leave it was the fact that the IHL folded. You keep referenceing the NHL and AHL but what do they have anything to do with the situation? I don't understand the point you are trying to make.



    "This leads me to my next point kids... Don't smoke crack..." - LT
     
  24. CHRDANHUTCH

    CHRDANHUTCH Registered User

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    Westguy13:

    Then why are u inserting YOURSELF into a discussion about KC---if u say the Scouts were as poorly run in KC why did the franchise be transferred twice first to Denver as the Rockies then to NJ as the Devils in 1982---- Are the NJ Devils that poorly run expansion team you are referencing and I fail to see why Denver or Atlanta shouldn't have their current teams at the expense of Quebec City & Calgary.

    The point about the KC Blades being dissolved has nothing to do w/ the topic of a new building ---SJ/SVSE elected to leave KC FOR the AHL as did Orlando making the Turner Cup Championship once it was determined that the IHL wasn't going to continue on, do you think the NHL was/is interested in having owners or their designates as is AEG is in being the contact for hockey in KC Isn't that a conflict of interest if they are focusing on tenancy in KC WHEN u already have a team in operation in LA before you attempt something and that's been a major point and even AEG'S own MLS Team in that market (the Wizards) were put up for sale.

    The reason why the Blades were dissolved is the same reason given to why the NHL 'deserves' to be back in Winnipeg, Hartford, Quebec.....

    It wasn't the NHL that was buying out the I, otherwise there would be two Chicago AREA teams in the NHL , NOT just the Blackhawks while the AHL WOULD BE @ 23 not 29, w/ Cleveland returning to active status, and there's another market there that has had numerous chances to support pro hockey and be successful to the point where it's a mainstay, stable franchise.
     
  25. Titan124

    Titan124 Registered User

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    The only logical choice in that is hartford. If you put a team out west you cause an imbalance in the conferences, though it would be a nice shakeup to have a new face in the Isles division/conference. I think that the NHL will try to move the team somewhere in the northeast so they don't need to shake up divisions, though I'd love for pittsburgh to move away so the Isles no longer have to deal with Crosby and Malking (on the flipside, I won't get to see Crosby and Malkin as much)
     
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