Player Discussion Alzner

[NotProkofievian]

Anyone explain where the pickle meme of Alzner came from? I'm out of the loop.

It comes from an interview that he gave a little while back. He said that his hands were so banged up from blocking shots over the years that his wife has to open jars around the house.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

You know that Alzner has more points than Emelin, right?

I know, 2 more points.

But is he an upgrade defensively ?

 

[FerrisRox]

I know, 2 more points.

But is he an upgrade defensively ?

He's certainly not worse. I'm not sure what the point of your post was.

You think I'm "pretty quiet" about saying Alzner was an upgrade on Emelin? Why would I be talking about it at all? Who cares?

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

Anyone explain where the pickle meme of Alzner came from? I'm out of the loop.

From @WeThreeKings if i'm not wrong, because he and his wife said that he can't open a pickle jar, because of his injuries.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

He's certainly not worse. I'm not sure what the point of your post was.

Emelin was way better when he played for us, but you can spin it like you want.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

He's certainly not worse. I'm not sure what the point of your post was.

You think I'm "pretty quiet" about saying Alzner was an upgrade on Emelin? Why would I be talking about it at all? Who cares?

I just find it funny, because you made a new thread about the Andrighetto trade even if you were wrong on that one too.

 

[FerrisRox]

I just find it funny, because you made a new thread about the Andrighetto trade even if you were wrong on that one too.

I don't see how I was wrong on either. Andrighetto has been an after thought in Colorado and a largely irrelevant player, despite all the nonsense we heard after the trade in the summer about how he was part of the solution for a low scoring team. He has eight goals this season which ties him with Nicholas Deslauriers, a player, who, when acquired, we were told was an AHLer and a useless player by many of those same hockey geniuses here who told us that trading Sven away was a disaster.

And now you're saying I'm wrong about Alzner being better offensively and defensively ... How does that work? First, please explain how Alzner is worse offensively while simultaneously having more points? How do you figure?

Secondly, how is Alzner worse defensively than Emelin? I'd love to hear how you've arrived at these conclusions.

 

[justafan22]

Alzner was done last year as a top 4 dman.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Lol. Honestly, the best part of having Emelin over Alzner would be the fact that we don't have Emelin for 4 more useless goddamn years.

When we tally his points, are we including all the goals that Karl deflected into our net? That's gotta put him at a pretty respectable offensive season.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

I don't see how I was wrong on either. Andrighetto has been an after thought in Colorado and a largely irrelevant player, despite all the nonsense we heard after the trade in the summer about how he was part of the solution for a low scoring team. He has eight goals this season which ties him with Nicholas Deslauriers, a player, who, when acquired, we were told was an AHLer and a useless player by many of those same hockey geniuses here who told us that trading Sven away was a disaster.

And now you're saying I'm wrong about Alzner being better offensively and defensively ... How does that work? First, please explain how Alzner is worse offensively while simultaneously having more points? How do you figure?

Secondly, how is Alzner worse defensively than Emelin? I'd love to hear how you've arrived at these conclusions.

That's the problem, those who said that Nicolas Deslauriers was an AHLer, like me, admitted that they were wrong, he's fine as a 4th liner.

But in your case, you still think that you are right and that Alzner is better than Emelin and that trading Andrighetto for Martinsen was not a mistake, which is laughable. Do you still think that Alzner was a good signature ?

We traded Andrighetto for Martinsen, even if he scored only one goal, it's always better than nothing from Martinsen. (zero point in 9 games.)

You want stats ? Fine. Let's compare Emelin's season when Price was injured with Alzner's season with us(Price was Bad/injured).

They both played 20 min/game on average.

Alzner was on ice for 91 goals against.
Emelin was on ice for 69 goals against.

This plus the eye test, I watched almost all Habs games the last 4 years, confirm me that under almost the same conditions, Emelin was better than Alzner for us. I don't have time to look for other stats, you can do it and put the conclusion here.

 

[Sorinth]

Strange that you would compare their point production. Who cares?

Alzner was brought in to be a defensive upgrade over Emelin, not an offensive upgrade. Turns out he actually *is* an offensive upgrade too, but that's just gravy.

I wouldn't say he's an offensive upgrade, he has more point because he's on the ice more often and gets put out in the offensive zone more often.

If you compare their P/60 at ES
Alzner is at 0.44
Emelin is at 0.48

In terms of zone starts
Alzner is at 46.3% offensive zone starts
Emelin is at 43.9%

So Emelin is actually more productive, with a more defensive deployment, but he has better support from teamates.

From a subjective view, I would say Emelin is better offensively because he has a stronger passing game in transition. Defensively I would probably give the edge to Alzner since he's less error prone.

That said it would have been far better to keep Emelin and not sign Alzner simply because of contract length. They were/are both overpaid, the difference is Emelin's was about to end, whereas we are now stuck with Alzner for several more years.

 

[kgboomer]

He reminds me of Komisarek, overrated because of who he was playing with. And just like Komisarek, it took a GM sucker enough to sign him for years.

 

[Tourist]

The negative of signing Alzner is larger than the positive of getting rid of Emelin.

 

[Habs100]

Whoa, easy there guys. Players making less than a $5M cap aren't ever going to be the worst signings in history. They are thorns in our sides, yes but let's be realistic here. If Price is injured or doesn't return to form for at least 5 out of the next 8 years I think that singing will be far worse for the team. Gomez also comes to mind.

Gomez was bad, but really he and his contract weren't as bad as giving up McDonaugh to get him. If it had been Higgins, Valentenko, and Yannick Weber we traded to get him, the whole Gomez fiasco wouldn't have been that all. He helped us get to the conference final his first year, then put up 38 points the next. And, after he sucked the 3rd year, we were able to use a compliance buy out on him, which meant his contract didn't count against the cap.

Sather didn't even know who McDonagh was when that trade was made and he needed the cap space to sign Gaborik. No way, Gainey had to include McDonagh. But Gainey was even more deperate for a center. Should have listened to Timmins who pleaded with him not to include McDonagh in the deal.

 

[ArtPeur]

He reminds me of Komisarek, overrated because of who he was playing with. And just like Komisarek, it took a GM sucker enough to sign him for years.

I would rate Alzner closer to Volchenkov.

 

[Tyson]

A couple of points-
Emelin had ONE year left and skated, hit and is much better defensively.

Alzner has sucked the entire year, I can’t remember one game when I thought he was coming around. He flat out sucks. Stay at home, offensively challenged, slow D are a dying breed, Habs have at least 3 in their top 6. Go figure

 

[LaP]

People who think like Bergevin (and it's more people than we'd like to think) believe in the concept of mistake free hockey and it's ridiculous. In the last 20 years the only guy I can describe to have played mistake free hockey is Nicklas Lidstrom. Maybe Scott Neidermayer but that's it (there was a time I think Markov got close to mistake free hockey but even he would have the occasional blunder). These one way defensive buoys do not play mistake free hockey. They play system hockey, and the systems can fail.



He's actually back to his 15-16 levels. Last season he was hitting less. What's crazier is that we lead the league in hits.

Yeah we lead the "hits nobody realized happened outside of the guy counting them" column. When it comes to the Brian Gionta's special we are the king.

 

[Et le But]

Turns out signing a limited skill defenseman who played his career with an offensive powerhouse, at the tail end of his career, was not the smartest move. Couldn’t see this one coming.

 

[jiboy]

Its almost comic to watch Alzner , the way he swims on the ice and then fish out the puck from net. I find his body language funny when he gets scored , half angry half no idea what really happened.

 

[habsterr]

He sucks but I love him for tanking purposes.

 

[FerrisRox]

That's the problem, those who said that Nicolas Deslauriers was an AHLer, like me, admitted that they were wrong, he's fine as a 4th liner.

But in your case, you still think that you are right and that Alzner is better than Emelin and that trading Andrighetto for Martinsen was not a mistake, which is laughable.

Trading a borderline NHLer is rarely a mistake. The Canadiens are no worse off for trading away Andrighetto. That you think it's laughable to dismiss his trade and his "loss" as "laughable" is your own issue.

There were several posters here who bemoaned the trade as a massive mistake that was going to bite the Canadiens in the ass.

They were clearly wrong and have long ago fallen silent. That you seem to think they were right, is, again, your own issue, not mine.

Do you still think that Alzner was a good signature ?

I never did think it was a good signing. It's a largely irrelevant signing, replacing a #4 guy with a different #4 guy. Both Emelin and Alzner are forgettable players. I think Alzner is better but I'd prefer neither one of them on the roster. If you think your stats and your "eye test" proves anything at all, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I found Emelin to be a one-dimensional player who lost the only dimension he had after his run in with Lucic. With his physical game gone, he was just an error prone blue liner who gave the puck away too often and found himself out of position frequently.

I'm glad he's gone and I think Alzner, while generally pretty mediocre, is a better defensemen than him.

 

[cashinstinct]

Claude Julien after a goal: it’s alzner again
Credit 25stanley

On dirait que Claude Julien est vraiment écœuré de Karl Alzner - 25Stanley

There is no audio of Julien on the 8 second clip, reading on the lips

 

[Adam Michaels]

Claude Julien after a goal: it’s alzner again
Credit 25stanley

On dirait que Claude Julien est vraiment écœuré de Karl Alzner - 25Stanley

There is no audio of Julien on the 8 second clip, reading on the lips

Was just coming in to post this. Good catch.

Obviously we can't know what he really told Muller. But it does look like it's what he said.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

Trading a borderline NHLer is rarely a mistake. The Canadiens are no worse off for trading away Andrighetto. That you think it's laughable to dismiss his trade and his "loss" as "laughable" is your own issue.

There were several posters here who bemoaned the trade as a massive mistake that was going to bite the Canadiens in the ass.

They were clearly wrong and have long ago fallen silent. That you seem to think they were right, is, again, your own issue, not mine.

You were bragging about a trade that we lost, that's the issue I had with your thread.

I never did think it was a good signing. It's a largely irrelevant signing, replacing a #4 guy with a different #4 guy. Both Emelin and Alzner are forgettable players. I think Alzner is better but I'd prefer neither one of them on the roster. If you think your stats and your "eye test" proves anything at all, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I found Emelin to be a one-dimensional player who lost the only dimension he had after his run in with Lucic. With his physical game gone, he was just an error prone blue liner who gave the puck away too often and found himself out of position frequently.

I'm glad he's gone and I think Alzner, while generally pretty mediocre, is a better defensemen than him.

You asked me for stats I provided you with one. Honestly do you remember 10 games were Alzner was good/great this year ?

The reality is we replaced Emelin, with a worse player, for more and longer.

Ultimately we want neither of those players on our team and on that we are on the same page.

Cheers and sorry for the way I "attacked" you yesterday.

 

[Whitesnake]

Trading a borderline NHLer is rarely a mistake. The Canadiens are no worse off for trading away Andrighetto. That you think it's laughable to dismiss his trade and his "loss" as "laughable" is your own issue.

There were several posters here who bemoaned the trade as a massive mistake that was going to bite the Canadiens in the ass.

They were clearly wrong and have long ago fallen silent. That you seem to think they were right, is, again, your own issue, not mine.

How were we clearly wrong? Andrighetto would still be one of our best option in our top 6. And was clearly the most skilled player out of the 2. He was injured this year so I guess we can use that as an exemple of the player he is? Trading a borderline NHL'ers is SURELY never a problem for top teams. But a weak team like us, seems to me that we have a few of those and the idea here is is that you have to improve. If you think getting Martinsen for Andrighetto was trying to improve, not sure who is wrong. As fare as who is silent and when, I guess that you were silent when he had his 16 points in 19 games? Will Ghetto be a top player in the NHL? No. Will he be better than quite a few guys we have here and we had at the time. Yep. Was he better than Martinsen. Yes. WAs it then a mistake. Yes. Gamechanging mistake. Nope. Yet, surely the same way we analyse all the good Bergie moves, which are rarely if not NEVER for gamechanging players.

If by analysing Bergie's work, we have to erase the good insignificant moves and the bad insignifcant moves, and just keep the significant ones....he is still far behind.....

Yes, the move had all the writing to come and bite the Habs in the ass. Based on the fact that you don't trade talent for supposed grit. I think that's pretty obvious. But I guess we will have to wait But the strategy was wrong. That you don't want to see it, is your own issue.