Karalahti

[TK79]

If this is the case then why not Heatley or Thorton didn't get punished accordingly? I'll bet the reason is that because they are stars in the NHL and Karalahti is not. So is this right that the Stars of the NHL gets special treatment? I think it's not right. Same rules to everybody no matter what their position in the game/business is. That's the right way. If Karalahti is not allowed to play and Heatley and Thorton can then the I have lost the respect for NHL and the NHLPA.

Dont' forget Belfour, who also has a criminal record.. I totally agree with Padawan, this is hypocracy at it's worst.

 

[Raimo Sillanpää]

What's interesting now, is that Kummola (head of the finnish federation) said in the paper the other day that there doesn't appear to be any legal grounding for the NHL/NHLPA preventing Jere from playing, that should, that if finland pushes, the NHL/NHLPA coudl quite easily turn out to be powerless in the event.
But that's a course they are not looking to go through, preferring to find a solution for both parties (like NHL/NHLPA reinstating Karalahti temporarily)

 

[teme]

"What Karalahti or any other player does outside the rink is none of NHL's business anyway. If a player does something illegal, law enforcements and courts will punish him accordingly."

i would disagree with this in that you sign a contract to play in the NHL, and like any other business, there are guidelines and rules in that contract. If you violate those rules, the contract can be voided and thus you are fired. also last time i checked getting drunk in a public place is ilegal, is it not? i could be totaly wrong on this but know many people who have gotten arrested for being drunk.

I should've written, should be none of their business. Legal system in US is obscure especially when it comes to contracts, I am not sure whether a contract that would punish an employee for being drunk off duty would hold up in court. And NHL didn't void his contract, they also extended his ban to every other league. Let me put it this way, you did something bad, got proper legal punishment for it (fine for speeding, etc.) Now because of that your employer not only freezes your pay, but prevents you from working in the entire industry, would that be OK?

For the record, I don't think Heatley or Belfour should be punished by the league in any way either.

 

[SChan*]

I agree with the finns. It's double standard by NHL.

 

[Bicycle Repairman]

Give it up folks. Karalahti is on his own in this regard and there is absolutley no double-standard. He turned his back on fufilling the directives of the League's substance abuse policy, a policy I may point out was agreed to by the Player's Association and indeed initiated back when by said organization. And it has a purpose. The AA route may indeed be Christian-based, but the program is well-funded and other alternative treatment programs are available.

Karalahti isn't the first substance abuser in the big scheme of things to lose his job/professional accreditation/livelihood and he won't be the last. Welcome to the Real World. It's the burden he bears and it's of his own making.

The World Cup under the auspices of the NHL/NHLPA is in no way obligated to allow him to play in this tournament.

 

[Flonaldo]

Give it up folks. Karalahti is on his own in this regard and there is absolutley no double-standard. He turned his back on fufilling the directives of the League's substance abuse policy, a policy I may point out was agreed to by the Player's Association and indeed initiated back when by said organization. And it has a purpose. The AA route may indeed be Christian-based, but the program is well-funded and other alternative treatment programs are available.

Karalahti isn't the first substance abuser in the big scheme of things to lose his job/professional accreditation/livelihood and he won't be the last. Welcome to the Real World. It's the burden he bears and it's of his own making.

The World Cup under the auspices of the NHL/NHLPA is in no way obligated to allow him to play in this tournament.

Karalahti served his suspension in full. During that suspension he was barred from being able to work and earn his living, world-wide. He paid his dues and paid for his decision - it was his decision to make and his right.

Now he's a key figure for HIFK and one of the most trusted players of our new Finland coach. That should tell you something. He has overcome his problems and is doing great. No, he's not a tee totaler but so what? The abuse program and policy is meant to in place to battle problems, doesn't seem to me Karalahti has any problems right now - except for the one we're discussing here.

So, the only reason he's suspended for the WC is that he didn't, and doesn't, kiss ass. He completed his suspension without pay and that should be the end of it. He's doing great without the NHL's programs, proof that it isn't the only way of doing things.

Yes, the NHL isn't obligated to admit Karalahti. So? The NHL could rule that no non-NHL players are allowed. Would that be fair? How about banning all players wearing face shields and visors? That would up the chances for the NA teams. The tournament is called the World Cup, not NHL Cup or whatever. And even though the NHL makes the rules they should be fair and just. Now Karalahti is being punished for not being "a good boy".

 

[Padawan]

Well, the NHL said the final word on this. Karalahti won't be allowed to play in the World Cup. I'd like to know what are they really afraid of. The finnish press are going to write about this alot...

 

[Jussi]

Well, the NHL said the final word on this. Karalahti won't be allowed to play in the World Cup. I'd like to know what are they really afraid of. The finnish press are going to write about this alot...

While outside of Finland, no-one cares...

 

[Leo Naphta]

Well, the NHL said the final word on this. Karalahti won't be allowed to play in the World Cup. I'd like to know what are they really afraid of. The finnish press are going to write about this alot...

Has there been a final ruling on the matter? And if so, any word on his replacement?

 

[mikkoz]

1.Has there been a final ruling on the matter?
2. And if so, any word on his replacement?

1. yes
2. Niinimaa?

 

[Padawan]

2. Niinimaa?

Niinimaa or Nummelin would fit the criteria but I guess we'll see in few days.

 

[TK79]

And Heatley gets to play while awaiting charges for manslaughter.. Great job NHL..

 

[Jussi]

And Heatley gets to play while awaiting charges for manslaughter.. Great job NHL..

He hasn't violated NHL rules. ANd it's not really fair to bring him into this, since even Snyder's parents didn't want Heatley to be prosecuted.

 

[Canuck21t]

If this is the case then why not Heatley or Thorton didn't get punished accordingly? I'll bet the reason is that because they are stars in the NHL and Karalahti is not. So is this right that the Stars of the NHL gets special treatment? I think it's not right. Same rules to everybody no matter what their position in the game/business is. That's the right way. If Karalahti is not allowed to play and Heatley and Thorton can then the I have lost the respect for NHL and the NHLPA.

We're talking about NHL rules here, not what's outside of the league. Unlike Karalahti, Heatly and Thornton have criminal records but they haven't violated any NHL rule as far as I know. Bertuzzi is not playing not because of his assault charge but due to his on-ice violation which led to his suppension.

 

[Panopticon]

It's as ridiculous as everything else in America, but as always, I really don't care. It's not like the Finns have a chance of winning this one anyway. We suck.

 

[SergeiK]

Karalahti served his suspension in full. During that suspension he was barred from being able to work and earn his living, world-wide. He paid his dues and paid for his decision - it was his decision to make and his right.

Now he's a key figure for HIFK and one of the most trusted players of our new Finland coach. That should tell you something. He has overcome his problems and is doing great. No, he's not a tee totaler but so what?

I don`t understand claims where people argue that Karalahti has served his sentence. What sentence? To be able to play in NHL (and Word Cup) Karalahti should have gone throught the treatment program. He didn`t.

You say that it was Karalahti decision not go through with NHL Substance Abuse Program. Yes, actions have consequences and this whole "Karalahtigate" is part paying for those actions. Maybe Karalahti didn`t anticipate this turn of events, but that´s he´s mistake. Karalahti said in many interviews after he refused to go in rehab, that he`ll never want play in NHL again. He seemed fine with his desicion. So why all the tears now?

This is not a case of "why-can`t-man-have-a-single-beer" or "drugs-should-legalized" or "Karalahti-is-living-normal-balanced-life-and-misses-bronze-medal-games-rarely" . This is case of Karalahti breaking the rules. Flonaldo, you say that this is because Karalahti refused to "kiss ass". No, this is because Karalahti showed his ass to them.

Morally I don`t accept how the National League has handled cases like Heatley and Craig McTavish in the past. Those two are in my eyes murderers who escaped the consequences of their actions. But that totally different case than Karalahti.

 

[Padawan]

Morally I don`t accept how the National League has handled cases like Heatley and Craig McTavish in the past. Those two are in my eyes murderers who escaped the consequences of their actions.

Basically the NHLPA and NHL has these rules that the players would fit the criteria of being a role model for the kids. Nice and clean image makes them better role models. Now, between the lines it seems to be that the NHL thinks that missing a alcohol addiction program is bigger evil than taking someone's life, even if it has been an accident. However, that's only my opinion.

You're right about Karalahti. He did showed his ass to them. Obviously they didn't like it (who would?) but imo this is still ridiculous. So he didn't want to play in the NHL anymore? He doesn't want to quit drinking completely? Instead, he chose to go back to his native country to play hockey. In other words, NHL got dumped by Karalahti. Get over it.

 

[The Pucks]

Basically the NHLPA and NHL has these rules that the players would fit the criteria of being a role model for the kids. Nice and clean image makes them better role models. Now, between the lines it seems to be that the NHL thinks that missing a alcohol addiction program is bigger evil than taking someone's life, even if it has been an accident. However, that's only my opinion.

You're right about Karalahti. He did showed his ass to them. Obviously they didn't like it (who would?) but imo this is still ridiculous. So he didn't want to play in the NHL anymore? He doesn't want to quit drinking completely? Instead, he chose to go back to his native country to play hockey. In other words, NHL got dumped by Karalahti. Get over it.

Actually I think its the Finn's who have to get over it. Karahlati made his decisions knowing the concequences. He gave the NHL the bird, now he has to watch the world cup from the side lines. As you put it, get over it!

 

[Raipe]

Let Karalahti play!!!!!

 

[Padawan]

As you put it, get over it!

You're probably right. I need to get over it but I have still lost the respect for NHL and NHLPA executives.

 

[gib]

I don`t understand claims where people argue that Karalahti has served his sentence. What sentence? To be able to play in NHL (and Word Cup) Karalahti should have gone throught the treatment program. He didn`t.

I am not so familiar with this case Karalahti and his suspension thing, cause it`s has been so long time ago. But wasn`t the case that either Karalahti goes trough treatment program or if he doesn`t, he can`t play in any team for a year? He refused to go trough treatment, he didn`t play hockey for a year. Didn`t he serve the suspension he got by not going to treatment? What`s the problem here?

You say that it was Karalahti decision not go through with NHL Substance Abuse Program. Yes, actions have consequences and this whole "Karalahtigate" is part paying for those actions. Maybe Karalahti didn`t anticipate this turn of events, but that´s he´s mistake. Karalahti said in many interviews after he refused to go in rehab, that he`ll never want play in NHL again. He seemed fine with his desicion. So why all the tears now?

I think what flondo and others have tried to say is that NHL or NHLPA plays douple faced/douple morals game. They do give suspension to a man who drinks beer and refuses to go trough rehab, but at the same time they allow players to use doping: steroids, anabolics, stimulates etc. and do nothing about that. Instead they almoust encourage players to use doping by allowing it to be available in every hocket arena. And about that rehab program, wasn`t it goal to get Karalahti`s life balanced. If you look Karalahti`s life I think he lives pretty balanced life, even if he uses alcohol and want to have some fun. He has wife and kids and what I have heard, he is not terrible father vice versa he is a good father. Karalahti has never said that he don`t want to represent his home country, even if he has said he doesn`t want to play in NHL. Is World Cup same as NHL? in my point of wiew it`s not the same.

This is not a case of "why-can`t-man-have-a-single-beer" or "drugs-should-legalized" or "Karalahti-is-living-normal-balanced-life-and-misses-bronze-medal-games-rarely" . This is case of Karalahti breaking the rules. Flonaldo, you say that this is because Karalahti refused to "kiss ass". No, this is because Karalahti showed his ass to them.

Morally I don`t accept how the National League has handled cases like Heatley and Craig McTavish in the past. Those two are in my eyes murderers who escaped the consequences of their actions. But that totally different case than Karalahti.

Like you said SergeiK, this is case of Karalahti breaking the rules, but this is also case of principle. Principle about that it`s ridiculous that NHLPA won`t let Karalahti play, because of drinking beer on wrong time and place. Why do NHLPA see this so big problem, cause it isn`t problem anywhere else. Why did NHLPA agree to remove under-21 rule, but wont let Karalahti play? Rules can be changed...

I don`t have anything against Heatley, (Bertuzzi) etc. playing in World Cup, quite opposite. I want that in World Cup there is all the best players playing for their country, including Karalahti.

 

[SergeiK]

No, Karalahti missed the whole season cos he had a contract with Nashville Predators. "The sentence" was completing his treatment program and remaining sober and having some therapy etc. Karalahti wasn`t interested in this arrangements and left NHL saying "There are other places I can hockey than NHL". He was well aware that Finnish club HIFK respected the contract Karalahti had with Predators and didn`t allow him to play until the contract expired. The issue isn`t between Preds and Karalahti. Issue is between NHL and Karalahti. If you drop out from treatment program, you`re no longer capable of playing in NHL. This is NHL own rule. No finnished treatment program, no NHL games.

The NHL substance abuse program:

phase 1 = treatment but no penalty
phase 2 = suspension without pay during treatment
phase 3 = a six-month suspension
phase 4 = a one-year suspension with no guarantee of reinstatement

Jere was in phase 3. And as I said, the condition for NHL games was completing his AA treatment.

Rules can be changed, but you cannot argue that those ruled won`t apply because of some moral high ground that Karalahti supposedly has. Because drinking beer is lesser crime that killing someone?

 

[BCCHL inactive]

I think what flondo and others have tried to say is that NHL or NHLPA plays douple faced/douple morals game. They do give suspension to a man who drinks beer and refuses to go trough rehab, but at the same time they allow players to use doping: steroids, anabolics, stimulates etc. and do nothing about that. Instead they almoust encourage players to use doping by allowing it to be available in every hocket arena.

Show us some documentation that the NHL and NHLPA encourages its players to get access to performance-enhancing supplements.

...And if some NHL players are using performance enhancing supplements, show us where in the NHL rulebook or CBA that says its players cannot use performance enhancing supplements.

The NHL policy that Karalahti did not follow was designed for alcohol and recreational drug abuse, not performance enhancing supplements.

There is a huge difference between a muscle stimulant and heroin.

even if he has said he doesn`t want to play in NHL. Is World Cup same as NHL? in my point of wiew it`s not the same.

It is not the same in the sense that these are not NHL clubs competing for the Stanley Cup.

It is the same in the sense that the NHL is the governing body for the tournament. Their rules are in effect. The IIHF has nothing to do with the World Cup. It is all NHL.

Bottom line, Karalahti broke NHL rules, did not fulfill his subtance abuse obligations in the NHL policy, thus the NHL will not let him play in an NHL sanctioned tournament.

I don't see what is so unfair about that.


Oh, and SergeiK, go look up the word "murderer" in the dictionary. You make it sound as if Dany Heatley intended to kill his best friend. That is not the case at all. He made a bad decision that went horribly wrong. He was forgiven by Dan Snyder's family and everybody else around him. Unfortunately, the accident happened where a bitter District Attorney has jurisdiction.

 

[SergeiK]

Double standard

Oh, and SergeiK, go look up the word "murderer" in the dictionary. You make it sound as if Dany Heatley intended to kill his best friend. That is not the case at all. He made a bad decision that went horribly wrong. He was forgiven by Dan Snyder's family and everybody else around him. Unfortunately, the accident happened where a bitter District Attorney has jurisdiction.

"Bitter Attornoy?" So, you`re defending the NHL stand-point that Karalahti broke their rules and therefore aren`t allowed to play World Cup. Rules broken---> consequences. But in Heatley`s case your moral code bends other way. Rules (law) broken ---> no consequences. How can you justify such a double standard?

As you can see I understand NHL point-of-view in Karalahti`s case completely. Heatley`s case they have no saying because it`s matter of law and courts are to decide what was the price of Dan Snyder`s life. But same logic applies here. I imagine that in US there are clear written laws regarding high speed, traffic endangerment and vehicular homicide. Heatley knew that what he did was dangerous and someone could get killed while he was having fun (maybe him, maybe Snyder, maybe some innocent bystander). He did it anyway and now he has the pay the price. I don't see what is so unfair about that. I don`t see how the juridical process is all due to "bitter attourney". I imagine that in US all people are equal under the law- or that`s the impression that I have got watching Matlock etc. Or is the policy that this kind of crimes are left unpunished or is this the case only with sport superstars?

 

[me2]

We're talking about NHL rules here, not what's outside of the league. Unlike Karalahti, Heatly and Thornton have criminal records but they haven't violated any NHL rule as far as I know. Bertuzzi is not playing not because of his assault charge but due to his on-ice violation which led to his suppension.

That is either false or the NHL is guilty of double standards because Hatcher is playing and he is currently under suspension and will be until the next season.