JVR-Bozak-Marner or JVR-Bozak-Brown ?

Sypher04

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Jan 20, 2011
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I don't see why this cannot be tried. Bozak and JVR joined at the hip must be separated!

You have:
Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Marleau-Kadri-Komarov

Try for a few games:
Martin-Bozak-Marner
JVR-Moore-Brown

Let the latter two lines compete for ice time; say what you want about Martin but the guy can play defense better than Bozak/JVR

Martin adds some grit, defense, cycle and heavyness to a what is currently a pretty soft line. And JVR brings a scoring touch to a line that could use more skill. You end up with 2 skill guys and a mucker for each line.

Matthews/Nylander + Hyman.
Kadri/Marleau + Komarov.
Bozak/Marner + Martin.
JVR/Brown + Moore or Fehr

Maybe you end up playing Martin a bit more than ideally you'd want, but I think it makes all your lines, collectively, more dangerous. And for a team like us that rolls 4, that's nothing but good.

I know Hyman on the top line has been beaten to death, but there is something to be said for the fact that the Kadri line and Matthews line are both going with (Hyman/Komarov) doing the mucker work, while the other two lines aren't.
 

Mess

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What happens if the Martin/Moore/Marner line looks good and the Bozak line remains in the negative?

The Moore/Fehr with Brown line already looked good this year keeping pace ES goals with the Bozak line.

If your 4th line with guys like Martin on it score as much as an offensive line like the Bozak line than it just emphasizes the problem even more. So the coach isn't trying to fix/improve the 4th line as its not broken the 3rd line is the focus of his attention.

However I was in the hypothetical sense, wondering if Brown succeeds to correct that Bozak lines weaknesses and still producing, than how long could this temp switch remain permanent?

If Brown fails to fix a broken JVR & Bozak then what is a good question. :help:

Maybe that real answer is JVR and/or Bozak OUT altogether as the long term solution !!
 

Minus Mitch

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The Moore/Fehr with Brown line already looked good this year keeping pace ES goals with the Bozak line.

If your 4th line with guys like Martin on it score as much as an offensive line like the Bozak line than it just emphasizes the problem even more. So the coach isn't trying to fix/improve the 4th line as its not broken the 3rd line is the focus of his attention.

However I was in the hypothetical sense, wondering if Brown succeeds to correct that Bozak lines weaknesses and still producing, than how long could this temp switch remain permanent?

If Brown fails to fix a broken JVR & Bozak then what is a good question. :help:

Maybe that real answer is JVR and/or Bozak OUT altogether as the long term solution !!

If Bozak and JVR were easily replaceable don’t you think it may have been done already? Why wouldn’t you move them going into a contract year if they are easily replaceable?

It looks like a 24 year old Josh Leivo is a fringe NHLer whom hasn’t been able to take anyone’s spot and Kapenan has played 4th line minutes with two solid veteran NHLers so really hasn’t been able to take a spot either. Both are highly highly overrated.
 
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Sypher04

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I don't think Kapanen is overrated because he was a victim of the numbers game and one of the few players we had who didn't have to clear waivers.
 

Minus Mitch

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I don't think Kapanen is overrated because he was a victim of the numbers game and one of the few players we had who didn't have to clear waivers.

Maybe you’re right but that means he wasn’t better than anyone or room would be made.
 

Pi

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Nov 16, 2010
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What happens if the Martin/Moore/Marner line looks good and the Bozak line remains in the negative?

I can't imagine Marner being on that line for more than a game. Babcock does this to send messages to players but he's not going to switch the lines. The top 3 lines haven't changed at all with the exception of Marleau for the past ~60 games.
 

zeke

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All these issues are caused by Bozak. Just clogging the whole thing up.

Ditch Bozak, move willy to C, and then suddenly all the players fall into place perfectly.
 
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Minus Mitch

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Oct 17, 2017
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All these issues are caused by Bozak. Just clogging the whole thing up.

Ditch Bozak, move willy to C, and then suddenly all the players fall into place perfectly.

I think it looks pretty clear that Nylander and Matthews will spend a career together. It would be kinda silly to separate them.
 

zeke

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crosby/malkin, fedorov/yzerman, sakic/forsberg all looked great on the same line, too.

not sure why they were ever separated.
 
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Pookie

Wear a mask
Oct 23, 2013
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If Bozak and JVR were easily replaceable don’t you think it may have been done already? Why wouldn’t you move them going into a contract year if they are easily replaceable?

It looks like a 24 year old Josh Leivo is a fringe NHLer whom hasn’t been able to take anyone’s spot and Kapenan has played 4th line minutes with two solid veteran NHLers so really hasn’t been able to take a spot either. Both are highly highly overrated.

I don't know about the overrated part but I would focus people on the first point. If there was a move out there that makes this team better, Lou would clearly make it.

Based on what must be available at this time... on the farm or on the market... THIS is the best option.
 

RLF

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May 5, 2014
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The Moore/Fehr with Brown line already looked good this year keeping pace ES goals with the Bozak line.

If your 4th line with guys like Martin on it score as much as an offensive line like the Bozak line than it just emphasizes the problem even more. So the coach isn't trying to fix/improve the 4th line as its not broken the 3rd line is the focus of his attention.

However I was in the hypothetical sense, wondering if Brown succeeds to correct that Bozak lines weaknesses and still producing, than how long could this temp switch remain permanent?

If Brown fails to fix a broken JVR & Bozak then what is a good question. :help:

Maybe that real answer is JVR and/or Bozak OUT altogether as the long term solution !!

See what you are saying. I think if I could pick the lines, even though this would not happen,

Marleau-Matthews-Nylander
Hyman-Bozak-Marner
JVR-Kadri-Brown
Martin-Moore/Fehr-Komarov
 

Sypher04

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Jan 20, 2011
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See what you are saying. I think if I could pick the lines, even though this would not happen,

Marleau-Matthews-Nylander
Hyman-Bozak-Marner
JVR-Kadri-Brown
Martin-Moore/Fehr-Komarov

The Kadri and Matthews line have been terrific. You don't mess with them imo.
 

Menzinger

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Apr 24, 2014
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I think it looks pretty clear that Nylander and Matthews will spend a career together. It would be kinda silly to separate them.

It depends on how the team looks In a year or two.

With the pending departure of Bozak and JVR, there will be a need to spread out the offense a bit, which may lead to the separation of Matthews and Nylander
 
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Sypher04

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Jan 20, 2011
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FYI, for anyone interested:

The line of Hyman-Matthews-Nylander has been on the ice for 0 goals against.
The line of Marleau-Kadri-Komarov has been on the ice for 0 goals against.
The line of JVR-Bozak-Marner has been on the ice for 7 goals against.
The line of Martin-Moore/Fehr-Brown has been on the ice for 3 goals against.

This is all even strength. And doesn't include 5v5 goals allowed when mixed lines were on the ice; only those specific combinations.
 

zeke

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Mar 14, 2005
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FYI, for anyone interested:

The line of Hyman-Matthews-Nylander has been on the ice for 0 goals against.
The line of Marleau-Kadri-Komarov has been on the ice for 0 goals against.
The line of JVR-Bozak-Marner has been on the ice for 7 goals against.
The line of Martin-Moore/Fehr-Brown has been on the ice for 3 goals against.

This is all even strength. And doesn't include 5v5 goals allowed when mixed lines were on the ice; only those specific combinations.

martin may be trying even babcock's patience. he's really been bad.
 
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gabeliscious

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Jan 8, 2009
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i think the issue is jvr and bozak. individually they are great players to have on a team but the issue is defensively they both are problematic and neither has chemistry with anyone else. jvr and kadri dont work and jvr with matthews wont work since he wont do the grunt work.

imo the path of least resistance is to trade jvr and bump marleau up.

hyman-matthews-nylander = great chemistry, not touching this line.

marleau-bozak-marner = improved defensively and probably not a huge drop off offensively.

komorov-kadri-brown = obviously works and would get brown off the 4th line.

4th line;

martin-moore-fehr = solid defensively with good hustle and heart.

the question is can we move jvr and what can we realistically expect in return? imo depth wise we still have kapanen and leivo who are ready to go and shoshnikov if needed.
 

leaffaninvancouver

formerly in Victoria
Jan 11, 2012
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i think the issue is jvr and bozak. individually they are great players to have on a team but the issue is defensively they both are problematic and neither has chemistry with anyone else. jvr and kadri dont work and jvr with matthews wont work since he wont do the grunt work.

imo the path of least resistance is to trade jvr and bump marleau up.

hyman-matthews-nylander = great chemistry, not touching this line.

marleau-bozak-marner = improved defensively and probably not a huge drop off offensively.

komorov-kadri-brown = obviously works and would get brown off the 4th line.

4th line;

martin-moore-fehr = solid defensively with good hustle and heart.

the question is can we move jvr and what can we realistically expect in return? imo depth wise we still have kapanen and leivo who are ready to go and shoshnikov if needed.

That was always the plan I believe. Marleau wasn't brought in for Matthews, he was brought in for Marner.
 

Sypher04

Registered User
Jan 20, 2011
11,360
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FYI, for anyone interested:

The line of Hyman-Matthews-Nylander has been on the ice for 0 goals against.
The line of Marleau-Kadri-Komarov has been on the ice for 0 goals against.
The line of JVR-Bozak-Marner has been on the ice for 7 goals against.
The line of Martin-Moore/Fehr-Brown has been on the ice for 3 goals against.

This is all even strength. And doesn't include 5v5 goals allowed when mixed lines were on the ice; only those specific combinations.

To further expand on this last thought I posted (quoted above):

So, those bottom 2 lines at 5v5 account for 10 of our 19 total goals against.
The penalty kill has been scored on 5 times.
And we allowed that one absolutely brutal SH goal (on the two man advantage vs NJ)
This accounts for 16 of the 19 goals.

The other 3 are mixed groups:
Marner-Matthews w/ Rielly-Zaitsev-Hainsey (obviously mid change. First goal of the season (Jets game))
Marleau-Kadri-Nylander w/Rielly-Gardiner
Hyman-Kadri-Brown w/Rielly-Borgman

Komarov has been on the ice for 2 goals against. Both PK
Kadri has been on the ice for 2 goals against. Neither with his usual linemates.
Marleau has been on the ice for 2 goals against. 1 on PK, other without his usual linemates.
Matthews has been on the ice for 2 goals against. 1 the SH, other without his usual linemates.
Nylander has been on the ice for 2 goals against. 1 the SH, other without his usual linemates.
Hyman has been on the ice for 3 goals against. 2 on PK, other without his usual linemates.

Marner has been on the ice for 10 goals against. 7 with his usual linemates. 1 on PK, 1 the SH, 1 without his usual linemates
Bozak has been on the ice for 7 goals against. All with his usual linemates.
JVR has been on the ice for 8 goals against. All with his usual linemates, except 1 the SH.


.....Small sample and all that, but in short, don't touch the Matthews or Kadri lines.
 
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Sypher04

Registered User
Jan 20, 2011
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That was always the plan I believe. Marleau wasn't brought in for Matthews, he was brought in for Marner.

I don't think he was brought in for either specifically. I think he was just brought in to add more scoring to third line. There's a reason he plays with Kadri and was never even tried anywhere else.
 

ShaneFalco

Registered User
Jul 15, 2012
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London, On
We could also sit back and do nothing while the fan base tries to run players out of town by overplaying the negatives and discounting the positives.

I think it's pretty clear with Bozak/JVR - they can score but get scored on just as much. Too many nights off, and too lazy. It's been like that for a few years so the criticism is warranted. Perhaps Babcock deserves a bit of flack for refusing to put them on different lines. If the goal is to contend, a line like that will be exposed, especially in the playoffs - as they were against Wash.
Ignoring their defensive deficiencies and focusing on the goal scoring, is short-sighted IMO
 

leaffaninvancouver

formerly in Victoria
Jan 11, 2012
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8,327
I don't think he was brought in for either specifically. I think he was just brought in to add more scoring to third line. There's a reason he plays with Kadri and was never even tried anywhere else.

I think that's also partially because there is nowhere else to put JVR. If he's not traded he has to play somewhere and Kadri's and Matthew's like aren't a good fit according to what we've seen from Babcock.
 

Sypher04

Registered User
Jan 20, 2011
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In a perfect world, I'd sit Martin. Call up Kapanen. And do this:

Kapanen - Bozak - Marner
JVR - Moore/Fehr - Brown

OR

Brown - Bozak - Marner
JVR - Moore/Fehr - Kapanen

Either/or
 

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