JVR-Bozak-Marner or JVR-Bozak-Brown ?

[Gallagbi]

The best way to use JVR for a d-man is to grab pick(s) then use that.

You open up different trade windows and more flexibility IMO.

 

[Gary Nylund]

We should be able to get more than that though.


If we want to go for cup, we keep JVR. We don't downgrade. Nash isn't as good offensively, and his even strength defense isn't great either. He's a good PKer, and that's not what we need.

Getting draft picks isn't about rebuilding. Going forward, we will need to get a lot of effect from a limited amount of cap hit. The best way to get that is through ELCs and second contracts, to replace players that are not irreplaceable but will start to be costly. To get good guys coming up to play for us with ELCs and second contracts, we will need to continuously replenish our prospect pool.

It's not about rebuilding. It's about sustaining contender status for as long as our core can be competitive.

This.

 

[zeke]

Not sure we really need another Dman, tbh.

I mean unless we're adding a norris calibre stud.

 

[Barilko14]

Not sure we really need another Dman, tbh.

I mean unless we're adding a norris calibre stud.

I agree. Within a couple of seasons we can have five top 4 dmen (Rielly, Gards, Zait, Dermott & Lil), and that doesn't include Rosen and Borgman.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Not sure we really need another Dman, tbh.

I mean unless we're adding a norris calibre stud.

Pretty much. Hainsey has looked solid beside Rielly so I don't really know if it is worth taking away the Leafs forward depth or future forward depth ala first/second round picks to push Haisney down to the third pairing.

 

[The Apologist]

Sure they do. One way play by two of them and a skinny young WHO ALSO GENERALLY PLAYS A ONE WAY GAME .

FTFY. Unless you want to show me anything that shows otherwise.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Didn't he say that he'd be willing to take less if it was an 8 year deal? I'd say that's pretty much the case for any player and I want no part of that myself, would be shocked if we signed JVR for 7 years never mind 8.



It's not an easy decision either way. It's not just Bozak and JVR, there's Komarov too. I totally agree this team can make a run but we should be in that position for the next decade and if that means we'll never sell of pending UFA's, we may be in a position say 5-6 years from now when we won't be able to put together a decent supporting cast around our stars because we no longer have cheap talent coming up through the system. Nobody wants to "create holes" but if the decision has been made that we can't afford to resign these guys, those holes are coming anyway so it's a question of do you get some assets back that will come in very handy when other holes have to be filled in the years to come? Or is it worth it to forego that opportunity to give us a better shot this season? To say that we might make a run so we're not trading these guys period is too rigid for my way of thinking though. These are tough decisions and I don't think it's clear cut either way and possibly a middle ground is optimal, something like trade JVR and let the other two walk?



Yes, the chemistry is a factor too and I agree that the off-season would have been the ideal time for a trade. It's still not too late though, there's plenty of time left before the playoffs to adjust to whatever happens. We could make a trade in say January and still be just fine. How enticing is the offer - that's what it all comes down to doesn't it? It's an interesting situation and I don't think anyone can say with certainty what the right path to take is and in the end, it might be a really tough/close decision either way.



Harsh, but there's some truth there. Replace JVR with Leivo/Kapanen and we'll score a few less goals almost certainly but there should be positive effects as well.

I have always said I am not against losing Bozak because while there is jack shit in the minors to replace him, I do think you can sign or trade for his replacement, I think you can convince somebody to come in.

Leo I LOVE and I think has a decent shot to be back but if he leaves I think Kapenan or Grunstrom someone like that can replace him.

But we don't have another JVR in the system JVR is the guy that we can't currently replace he's the guy I want to keep

 

[Drytoast]

JVR keeps stating he wants to remain a Leaf...dunno how to break the news to him...

 

[Nithoniniel]

JVR keeps stating he wants to remain a Leaf...dunno how to break the news to him...

I'm curious how low he would go. I think that with a capable two-way center on his line, especially one who can exit the zone really well, his defensive issues would mostly go away. He's good at breaking up plays and winning board battles. He just really struggles at zone exits, which becomes a huge problem when his linemates do too. But if you put him with Nylander next year, that's a non-issue and we have a 60 point forward for the headache of his occasional laziness.

For that to happen, we need him to accept a really team-friendly contract, we need decent contracts to the big three, and preferably we need to solve Marleau's third year so that it doesn't cost us Gardiner. If all of those things come true, I can see it working out. Odds are that he's gone though.

 

[Drytoast]

I'm curious how low he would go. I think that with a capable two-way center on his line, especially one who can exit the zone really well, his defensive issues would mostly go away. He's good at breaking up plays and winning board battles. He just really struggles at zone exits, which becomes a huge problem when his linemates do too. But if you put him with Nylander next year, that's a non-issue and we have a 60 point forward for the headache of his occasional laziness.

For that to happen, we need him to accept a really team-friendly contract, we need decent contracts to the big three, and preferably we need to solve Marleau's third year so that it doesn't cost us Gardiner. If all of those things come true, I can see it working out. Odds are that he's gone though.

We have Lievo Kap and Sosh in the waiting right now. I'd honestly rather go with Lieve than JVR. He's 24...he's ready.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I have always said I am not against losing Bozak because while there is jack **** in the minors to replace him, I do think you can sign or trade for his replacement, I think you can convince somebody to come in.

Leo I LOVE and I think has a decent shot to be back but if he leaves I think Kapenan or Grunstrom someone like that can replace him.

But we don't have another JVR in the system JVR is the guy that we can't currently replace he's the guy I want to keep

Hey, to each his own man. This is how I see it.

Leo I love too but like Grundstrom could be a cheaper replacement.

Bozak I like and would love to have back but it would have to be at the right price/term. Possible, but not likely.

JVR would likely require too much money/term so that's that. Replace is a funny word in this context. Perhaps you're right that we can't replace him but I would argue that we don't really need to replace him. Whoever takes his place in the lineup won't score as much but we're going to score with or without him and the new guy helps cut down on goals against, then depending on how much he helps do that he could be equally valuable. Plus if he is indeed after an 8 year deal screw that, I could see him declining big-time before long.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

JVR keeps stating he wants to remain a Leaf...dunno how to break the news to him...

I mean at a fair price for both sides it's possible but what is that price

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm curious how low he would go. I think that with a capable two-way center on his line, especially one who can exit the zone really well, his defensive issues would mostly go away. He's good at breaking up plays and winning board battles. He just really struggles at zone exits, which becomes a huge problem when his linemates do too. But if you put him with Nylander next year, that's a non-issue and we have a 60 point forward for the headache of his occasional laziness.

For that to happen, we need him to accept a really team-friendly contract, we need decent contracts to the big three, and preferably we need to solve Marleau's third year so that it doesn't cost us Gardiner. If all of those things come true, I can see it working out. Odds are that he's gone though.

I'm curious too but I suspect the answer involves an 8 year deal and whatever the number is, it will be nowhere near low enough to make up for the risk that comes with that. Something like at least 5.75m for 8 years is my guess.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Hey, to each his own man. This is how I see it.

Leo I love too but like Grundstrom could be a cheaper replacement.

Bozak I like and would love to have back but it would have to be at the right price/term. Possible, but not likely.

JVR would likely require too much money/term so that's that. Replace is a funny word in this context. Perhaps you're right that we can't replace him but I would argue that we don't really need to replace him. Whoever takes his place in the lineup won't score as much but we're going to score with or without him and the new guy helps cut down on goals against, then depending on how much he helps do that he could be equally valuable. Plus if he is indeed after an 8 year deal screw that, I could see him declining big-time before long.

I think he has 5-6 years left in him personally

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

JVR seems the easiest to replace on that line. We don't have anyone in the system to replace Bozak so unless we get a center in a trade or sign a UFA I think he's the most likely to stick around.

Keep them/trade them/don't sign them at this point I trust the GM and coach enough to give them a lot of leeway. I'd like Bozak to stick around but if they trade or don't resign him I'll support it.

Short of trading Matthews I'm not sure this team could do anything I'd have a huge issue with at this point.

 

[The Apologist]

I have always said I am not against losing Bozak because while there is jack **** in the minors to replace him, I do think you can sign or trade for his replacement, I think you can convince somebody to come in.

Leo I LOVE and I think has a decent shot to be back but if he leaves I think Kapenan or Grunstrom someone like that can replace him.

But we don't have another JVR in the system JVR is the guy that we can't currently replace he's the guy I want to keep

I'm not sure where you think we are getting a Bozak replacement (.6 ppg Center) for any cheaper than he would come. If you're hoping for a signing or trade that would even remotely replace what he actually brings, you're honestly probably better to re-sign Tyler UNLESS someone we currently has fills those shoes (be it Willie or another prospect) otherwise you are probably paying the same money.

If we are being completely honest with ourselves, anything replacing either Bozak or JVR is probably going to be a step or two down depending on how much money we are hoping to save. Both are currently signed to great value contracts for this team.

 

[zeke]

Jvr is the toughest call we're going to have but we have to let him go. We have too many wing prospects with legit 20/50 potential but with grittier two way play than him. And there are always cheapo older vets around if we find ourselves desperate for some winger scoring in any given year.

Nylander is a huge upgrade over Bozak so there's no worries whatsoever with letting Bozak go.

 

[thewave]

Jvr is the toughest call we're going to have but we have to let him go. We have too many wing prospects with legit 20/50 potential but with grittier two way play than him. And there are always cheapo older vets around if we find ourselves desperate for some winger scoring in any given year.

Nylander is a huge upgrade over Bozak so there's no worries whatsoever with letting Bozak go.

Didn't we try and trade him? I think Marleau was the JVR replacement but a couple trades didn't go down.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Jvr is the toughest call we're going to have but we have to let him go. We have too many wing prospects with legit 20/50 potential but with grittier two way play than him. And there are always cheapo older vets around if we find ourselves desperate for some winger scoring in any given year.

Nylander is a huge upgrade over Bozak so there's no worries whatsoever with letting Bozak go.

Thing is you KNOW Nylander works with Matthews we don't know he can play down the middle we think he can but we don't know he can

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Jvr is the toughest call we're going to have but we have to let him go. We have too many wing prospects with legit 20/50 potential but with grittier two way play than him. And there are always cheapo older vets around if we find ourselves desperate for some winger scoring in any given year.

Nylander is a huge upgrade over Bozak so there's no worries whatsoever with letting Bozak go.

Why would you want to break up Matthews and Nylander?

 

[Puckstuff]

Our worst 2 defensive forwards are JVR & Marner.

I examined and analyzed the JVR-Bozak-Marner line last game. I paused the game and watched every shift twice. My take on it is this. Marner and JVR are our two worst defensive forwards at this time, and Bozak is our worst defensive center. Marner and JVR need to be broken up. JVR lacks speed, loses a lot of board battles and does turn the puck over. I think it's safe to say he's a finese winger; great in-tight with great finishing; but he's not responsible defensively. Marner on the other hand actually shows signs of being a good defensively responsible winger, he's a different story. He grinds along the boards, make the right play most of the time and makes great decisions. Marner's only downfall is his lack of game experience, and he's getting used to when to take risks or not. I think he had some bad puck luck as well. He's a little bit like Kadri over 3-4 years ago.

Here's my solution. Put JVR with our 2 most defensively responsible wingers, Brown + Kadri. Put Marner on a line with Marleau. I think Marleau and Marner will really help each other a lot. Marner will drive opportunities for the line, and Marleau will help stabilize it. Komorav goes to the 4th line as a result of Brown's excellent play.

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
-------JVR-Kadri-Brown
--Marleau-Bozak-Marner

 

[zeke]

Why would you want to break up Matthews and Nylander?

because a matthews-nylander 1-2 punch down the middle is the stuff of championships.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

because a matthews-nylander 1-2 punch down the middle is the stuff of championships.

Matthews-Nylander
Marner- Bozak/UFA equivalent
Kadri-Marleau

Seems like a better option, Marner can be our version of Kane and run his own line. I like for at least the next season or two Nylander and Matthews on the same line, taking draws on their strong sides.

After Sundin and Kessel respectively I really like having a top line with a top center and winger. I also think Matthews and Nylander skill sets complement each other better than Marner and Matthews.

 

[Puckstuff]

because a matthews-nylander 1-2 punch down the middle is the stuff of championships.

yeah but so is Matthews-Kadri. It's not like Kadri can't be a 70 point elite #2, because he's already an elite #2. He can drive offence at a similar level to the big 3, maybe just a small notch below.

 

[zeke]

So you stick Matthews and Marner together, as Marner's weaknesses get covered perfectly by Matthews. Giving us a dominant 1st line without leaving us with a weak defensive line somewhere else.

And let Nylander dominate as the 2nd line C.