Blue Jays Discussion: June 2017 Edition

[FearTheBeard]

Saunders DFA'd by the Phillies....wouldn't be a bad idea to bring him bang to platoon with Pearce.

yes it would. Taking away 80% of Pearce's everyday at bats and giving them to ****ing Michael Saunders is a very bad idea.

 

[Bad News Benning]

yes it would. Taking away 80% of Pearce's everyday at bats and giving them to ****ing Michael Saunders is a very bad idea.

Depends what version of saunders we get. I don't think it hurts to bring him back for cheap and see if he can give us another option for when Pearce finds a way to injure himself again. Some of these current regulars will be run into the ground if they are out there every day. It would be nice to have a left handed bench option with some pop because the current bench consists of guys with minimal offense.

 

[Eyedea]

Depends what version of saunders we get. I don't think it hurts to bring him back for cheap and see if he can give us another option for when Pearce finds a way to injure himself again. Some of these current regulars will be run into the ground if they are out there every day. It would be nice to have a left handed bench option with some pop because the current bench consists of guys with minimal offense.

We're talking about Saunders here. He'd be put on the DL the moment he's acquired.

 

[sabresEH]

Yikes.

Just wondering what is so yikes about my lineup?
Other than Russ at 2B it's the same lineup except we upgraded from a .308 obp to .374 at the lead off spot.

It's pretty clear Russ isnt the same defender behind the plate. I would take the downgrade at 2 for better defence behind the plate. We got lucky last night that the free 90 Russ gave to 2 batters to put them in scoring position with one away didnt come back to bite us.

 

[Loosie]

Who went on the DL today?

 

[Kurtz]

It's pretty clear Russ isnt the same defender behind the plate. I would take the downgrade at 2 for better defence behind the plate. We got lucky last night that the free 90 Russ gave to 2 batters to put them in scoring position with one away didnt come back to bite us.

While Martin's athleticism has likely declined, he's only been credited with 3 passed balls this season, which puts him on pace for less than the 9 passed balls he accrued last year, and considerably less than the 19 he accrued 2 years ago (though that was the Dickey effect).

More worryingly, he's only thrown out 15% of base runners this year and last, compared to the 40% rate he regularly put up prior to last year.

Despite this, Marin's greatest value behind the plate is pitch framing/game-calling ability, and he is excellent in those two aspects, giving us lots more defensive value than a potential replacement.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Just wondering what is so yikes about my lineup?
Other than Russ at 2B it's the same lineup except we upgraded from a .308 obp to .374 at the lead off spot.

It's pretty clear Russ isnt the same defender behind the plate. I would take the downgrade at 2 for better defence behind the plate. We got lucky last night that the free 90 Russ gave to 2 batters to put them in scoring position with one away didnt come back to bite us.

(1) Nailed it. (2) I wouldn't, especially when the measure of catcher defense you're using is caught stealing

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

While Martin's athleticism has likely declined, he's only been credited with 3 passed balls this season, which puts him on pace for less than the 9 passed balls he accrued last year, and considerably less than the 19 he accrued 2 years ago (though that was the Dickey effect).

More worryingly, he's only thrown out 15% of base runners this year and last, compared to the 40% rate he regularly put up prior to last year.

Despite this, Marin's greatest value behind the plate is pitch framing/game-calling ability, and he is excellent in those two aspects, giving us lots more defensive value than a potential replacement.

Kurtz wins Tuesday.

 

[sabresEH]

(1) Nailed it. (2) I wouldn't, especially when the measure of catcher defense you're using is caught stealing

Lol I figured as much, didn't think it deserved a yikes though .

It's not just the caught stealing. Tbh I haven't even looked at his defensive metrics(mainly because I'm still learning them), it's the fact that he seems lazy behind the plate.

Tries to pick everything instead of blocking which is my biggest pet peeve. The ball in the dirt last night really bugged me. Every catcher in the bigs should block that ball. And then he barely jogs to the ball when it gets away. Whoever was going from 2-3 was thinking about going home and if he had of gone into a dead sprint as soon as that ball got away he would have scored easily.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Lol I figured as much, didn't think it deserved a yikes though :wink.

It's not just the caught stealing. Tbh I haven't even looked at his defensive metrics(mainly because I'm still learning them), it's the fact that he seems lazy behind the plate.

Tries to pick everything instead of blocking which is my biggest pet peeve. The ball in the dirt last night really bugged me. Every catcher in the bigs should block that ball. And then he barely jogs to the ball when it gets away. Whoever was going from 2-3 was thinking about going home and if he had of gone into a dead sprint as soon as that ball got away he would have scored easily.

I assure you, he is not.

 

[sabresEH]

Kurtz wins Tuesday.

True enough. I know he is an excellent pitch framer and game caller and that is more important than any aspect when it comes to catching. I just thought if Maille was above average at both that it wouldn't be a bad thing to upgrade in the other aspects of catching a bit and downgrading 2B a little.

I didn't mean for it to be a full time thing(Russell at 2B) but just giving Maille a few more starts and instead of resting Martin with a day off let him play 2B and keep his bat in the lineup.

 

[sabresEH]

I assure you, he is not.

I guess it's just his age slowing him down I am noticing. He looks like a different catcher from when he started with us to now.

I was watching the A's vs Yanks the other night and watching Vogt move around to make sure every ball stayed in front of him when the game was tied was nice to see compared to Martin trying to pick the ball out of the dirt when we are trying to keep the score close to come back and win.

EDIT: Just curious DJQ did you watch all of the game last night? I know it's a littler later for you guys when it's in Texas(not by much though). I can't really be the only one bothered by that pitch(I wanna say it was in the 7th?) that Martin never even tried to keep in front of him. Just ole'd(Olayed ?) it trying to pick it rather than keep it in front of him. If I am the only one bothered by it I'll shut up(although I should just do that anyways clearly ) and let things run their course but I was pretty into that game last night and it was close to being a costly play.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I guess it's just his age slowing him down I am noticing. He looks like a different catcher from when he started with us to now.

I was watching the A's vs Yanks the other night and watching Vogt move around to make sure every ball stayed in front of him when the game was tied was nice to see compared to Martin trying to pick the ball out of the dirt when we are trying to keep the score close to come back and win.

EDIT: Just curious DJQ did you watch all of the game last night? I know it's a littler later for you guys when it's in Texas(not by much though). I can't really be the only one bothered by that pitch(I wanna say it was in the 7th?) that Martin never even tried to keep in front of him. Just ole'd(Olayed ?) it trying to pick it rather than keep it in front of him. If I am the only one bothered by it I'll shut up(although I should just do that anyways clearly ) and let things run their course but I was pretty into that game last night and it was close to being a costly play.

Indeed I did. And I too get annoyed at catchers not blocking pitches, or at least making an effort to do so. I also watch more baseball then I should, and have seen the exact same thing done by Salvador Perez and Yadier Molina.

I can tell you were into the game last night. And I think it has a lot to do with your idea that perhaps Maile should be given more innings and Martin perhaps spend time at 2nd. Its human nature.

Now, if Dan Jansen forces an early call-up, and the Jays want him to get at bats, then we can talk about Martin seeing time at another position. But for Luke Maile...the defensive\game management difference is immaterial, and Maile is a sub-replacement level hitter. You're not gaining anything, while putting Martin in a position to get injured far easier playing a position he is not used to.

 

[sabresEH]

Indeed I did. And I too get annoyed at catchers not blocking pitches, or at least making an effort to do so. I also watch more baseball then I should, and have seen the exact same thing done by Salvador Perez and Yadier Molina.

I can tell you were into the game last night. And I think it has a lot to do with your idea that perhaps Maile should be given more innings and Martin perhaps spend time at 2nd. Its human nature.

Now, if Dan Jansen forces an early call-up, and the Jays want him to get at bats, then we can talk about Martin seeing time at another position. But for Luke Maile...the defensive\game management difference is immaterial, and Maile is a sub-replacement level hitter. You're not gaining anything, while putting Martin in a position to get injured far easier playing a position he is not used to.

Yeah his bat is pretty bad. As bad as Goins bat can be it's not Maile bad. Just trying to think of ways to keep Russell in the lineup as much as possible, especially if we were to move him up the lineup.

I had a few chuckles watching him(Maile) earlier this year. Looked like he had squared up a ball only to have it be a 2 hopper to the SS.

If we continue to battle back and are in the playoff hunt at the deadline we are going to look for a back up C right? Or are we waiting on Jansen to force a call up and hope he sticks?

 

[Suntouchable13]

Who is on your top 3 list of all time slowest Jays? For me it's (from slowest to fastest):

Frank Thomas
Bengie Molina
Kendrys Morales

 

[frost king]

Who went on the DL today?

Maybe Campos tonight.

 

[The Nemesis]

Who is on your top 3 list of all time slowest Jays? For me it's (from slowest to fastest):

Frank Thomas
Bengie Molina
Kendrys Morales

I want to say that Ken Huckaby was pretty slow.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I want to say that Ken Huckaby was pretty slow.

Juan. Francisco.

 

[Loosie]

Who went on the DL today?

I'm really sorry Campos....

 

[Eyedea]

Me right now:



Tao of Stieb @TaoofStieb
*Checks Dalton Pompey's game log*
*Checks Dwight Smith Jr's games played by position*
*Checks if Roemon Fields is on 40-man*

 

[zeke]

time to shake up that lineup, gibber.

see what happens.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Yup, no 0-8 when trying to get to .500
Not hitting with RISP (except Ryan "Clutch" Goins)
Some just not hitting at all
Get Smith in there. Give Kevin a rest

 

[FearTheBeard]

Depends what version of saunders we get. I don't think it hurts to bring him back for cheap and see if he can give us another option for when Pearce finds a way to injure himself again. Some of these current regulars will be run into the ground if they are out there every day. It would be nice to have a left handed bench option with some pop because the current bench consists of guys with minimal offense.

Saunders has a -1.4 fWAR in the last calendar year. That kind of negative value isnt worth taking away playing time from Pearce or Smith Jr in the hope we catch lightning in a bottle

 

[Bad News Benning]

Saunders has a -1.4 fWAR in the last calendar year. That kind of negative value isnt worth taking away playing time from Pearce or Smith Jr in the hope we catch lightning in a bottle

If he stinks cut bait with him.

I'm not exactly the world's biggest saunders fan but I don't see the harm in bringing him in here. I'd rather Smith Jr get consistent abs down in AAA if he's going to be riding the pine up here. He's not a veteran bench guy who can go weeks without playing time. If you're going to have Smith Jr up here you need to give some of these vets a day off once a week to get him proper playing time.

 

[metafour]

If he stinks cut bait with him.

I'm not exactly the world's biggest saunders fan but I don't see the harm in bringing him in here. I'd rather Smith Jr get consistent abs down in AAA if he's going to be riding the pine up here. He's not a veteran bench guy who can go weeks without playing time. If you're going to have Smith Jr up here you need to give some of these vets a day off once a week to get him proper playing time.

Saunders is worse than Zeke. He has no use on this team.