Injury Report: Jumbo, Pavs...

[Painful Quandary]

This is a concerning trend. Last year it was clear that Donskoi should have been shut down due to his shoulder, but he was allowed to keep playing. Now it is clear that the Joes are playing injured and need to sit some games, if not be put on IR, however, they are allowed to keep playing. It feels like this club is trending in the direction on the Lowe/MacTavish Oilers when it comes to handling injured players.

Jumbo needs to sit and recover. LTIR him cuz of his knee, it cannot heal that fast at 37-38

I think his knee is fine. Watching him, I think it is an upper body, likely the left shoulder. His passing/decision-making is a bit off, and that would explain it. But I agree with your point, shut him down.

 

[67 others]

Okay my dude. When it’s reported that a player is injured in hockey, we are meant to assume it’s something more than bumps and bruises. If it’s an injury worth reporting on as something seriously affecting a player’s game, it’s not bumps and bruises.

Every hockey player is playing through bumps and bruises every game. That’s neither what the article nor SnarkAttack was talking about.

Are you suggesting that guys don’t ever play through stuff that should have them on the IR?

Nope. He is suggesting coaches can and do have a track record of exaggerating injuries to make their players look better or take pressure off to the media.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

The Sharks have an organizational issue of shutting down egos and this problem has been present since before DeBoer showed up.

We switched coaches twice and goalies twice since 2007-2008, and we haven't had a top-5 elite starter at any point during that time frame, yet our goalies are consistently top-3 in games played. Since 2007-2008 our starting goalie has played 60 games every year except 2012-2013 where our starter played started 43 in a 48 game season, on pace for like 75 starts over an 82 game season. Nabokov started 70+ games twice in that time frame, Niemi started 68(!) once and 64 another year. Jones hasn't started less than 65 in either of his seasons so far.

I'm pretty sure I read before that they wouldn't sit Nabokov because he had a large ego, was very competitive, and wouldn't take no for an answer when they tried to sit him. I'm fairly certain it's the same with Jones and Niemi and I'm even more sure that it's the same thing with the Joes. These guys have massive egos and won't take no for an answer, even when they clearly shouldn't be playing. They are totally ineffective on the ice and they drag down whoever plays with them. They need to be rested, they are being over worked. It is an organizational issue that must be solved; these players can not know what is best for them because they have such massive egos that cloud their judgment.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying a massive ego is a problem. Crosby suffered a concussion in the playoffs and came back like 2 games later and won the Conn Smythe. He undoubtedly has a massive ego and competitive drive but if it was the regular season? I bet he would have sat at least 10 games and I bet Pavelski and Thornton would not. And Vlasic, he had a damn concussion like 2 weeks ago and he looks terrible out there. He needs to sit as well. Take a note from Paul Martin, guys.

 

[SnarkAttack]

And your coaches were right, barring a major injury. Between ages 14-23 is when you see what kind of character a person has and when you pound it into their heads.

It's a bad sign to ask to sit because of bumps and bruises or a sore leg affecting your speed you are supposed to soldier on and find ways to compensate. Different if you have a major injury. Then obviously you sit

But you did not elaborate, so I can only assume.

I truly believe that sitting out for the good of your team DOES show better character than playing through any injury (including bumps and bruises) that would negatively affect your play to the point of you being worse than the alternative. Coaches make the mistake of thinking the player has "no balls" when it could just be a rational desire to win at all costs. If someone else gives my team a better chance to win on a given day, they should play. I loved playing, but pushing through just to prove I can is stupid if it costs my team.

For example, let's say I'm a pitcher. I have a blister on my throwing finger. I don't think anyone would contend that's a serious injury. Under your way of thinking, I should pitch. It's not a terrible injury, and I want to show I have character, so I have to play, right? 10 runs later, because I can't get a feel for my pitches, I may feel like an idiot, but at least I have character!

My point is that most "sports people" view too many things in terms of black and white. I think it often is to their detriment. It's not the playoffs. I'd rather have healthy Joes for 45 games this year than the shells of themselves for 82.

 

[Barrie22]

I truly believe that sitting out for the good of your team DOES show better character than playing through any injury (including bumps and bruises) that would negatively affect your play to the point of you being worse than the alternative. Coaches make the mistake of thinking the player has "no balls" when it could just be a rational desire to win at all costs. If someone else gives my team a better chance to win on a given day, they should play. I loved playing, but pushing through just to prove I can is stupid if it costs my team.

For example, let's say I'm a pitcher. I have a blister on my throwing finger. I don't think anyone would contend that's a serious injury. Under your way of thinking, I should pitch. It's not a terrible injury, and I want to show I have character, so I have to play, right? 10 runs later, because I can't get a feel for my pitches, I may feel like an idiot, but at least I have character!

My point is that most "sports people" view too many things in terms of black and white. I think it often is to their detriment. It's not the playoffs. I'd rather have healthy Joes for 45 games this year than the shells of themselves for 82.

But is it really for the betterment of the team if you at 50% is better then the replacements at 100%?

That is pretty much what thornton and pavs have right now. They have nobody that can come in and replace them even when they are playing like crap.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

But is it really for the betterment of the team if you at 50% is better then the replacements at 100%?

That is pretty much what thornton and pavs have right now. They have nobody that can come in and replace them even when they are playing like crap.

If it meant a better chance at getting you to 100% instead of consistently at or around 50%, I think you take the hit in the short term but these things are literally impossible to prove definitively. I would have them sit simply because it's still early. If a week off improves their health even just marginally, it likely yields better results down the line AND in the short term you could get lucky and win even without them. Players would be forced to take more responsibility and some guys respond positively in those situations.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Pavelski's injury really was hurting him. He had 4 goals and 4 assists in the first 19 games of the season - right around the time this thread came up.

Since then, he's got 14 goals and 36 assists for 50 points in 53 games and he's also looked really effective. I was really worried for a little while there that his career was trending towards him being out of the NHL in a few years. Even more recently, he's got 24 points in 25 games since Thornton went down.

It's great to see how this guy has come up big for the team yet again. When Thornton went down, we needed a hero, and Pavelski, the captain, stepped up. A true Sharks legend, he somehow put the team on his back as the #1C. His underlying numbers are also very very good over the last 25 games. I don't think he's a long term #1C answer for this team but I am amazed at how he has stepped up and produced and performed at a #1C level at even strength and special teams for this team since Thornton was injured.

Let's hope he can carry this into the playoffs.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Pavelski's injury really was hurting him. He had 4 goals and 4 assists in the first 19 games of the season - right around the time this thread came up.

Since then, he's got 14 goals and 36 assists for 50 points in 53 games and he's also looked really effective. I was really worried for a little while there that his career was trending towards him being out of the NHL in a few years. Even more recently, he's got 24 points in 25 games since Thornton went down.

It's great to see how this guy has come up big for the team yet again. When Thornton went down, we needed a hero, and Pavelski, the captain, stepped up. A true Sharks legend, he somehow put the team on his back as the #1C. His underlying numbers are also very very good over the last 25 games. I don't think he's a long term #1C answer for this team but I am amazed at how he has stepped up and produced and performed at a #1C level at even strength and special teams for this team since Thornton was injured.

Let's hope he can carry this into the playoffs.

So many worries have been overturned. I was sure Meier was done for; he turns it around and looks like a great prospect. Thornton seemed done; he has a strong season. Pavelski looks like he is hitting his decline, and it turns out it really was due to an injury. Even Boedker seems to be improving!

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

So many worries have been overturned. I was sure Meier was done for; he turns it around and looks like a great prospect. Thornton seemed done; he has a strong season. Pavelski looks like he is hitting his decline, and it turns out it really was due to an injury. Even Boedker seems to be improving!

It's been a fun year. As long as we don't fall apart and miss the playoffs in these last 10 games, I'm mostly happy with this season.

Burns is another guy who has improved over his last 25 games. He's far from perfect, but he's not the defensive train wreck that he was for the first two thirds of the year. Vlasic as well. Jones too. All 3 of these guys along with Pavelski look like players that can be the MVP of a playoff series you win against an elite team and 3 months ago I wasn't convinced they would ever be at that level again.

I'm still holding out hope that Thornton comes back right in time for the playoffs. I think the first 2 rounds we can win without Thornton (against one of the SoCal teams and probably Vegas) but they will absolutely need him to beat either of Nashville or Winnipeg.

I must say, for all of the tangible flaws this team has, this season does have that "feeling" of one of the years where everything comes together at the right time.

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

I think someone on reddit mentioned they saw Jumbo skating in practice today.

 

[WSS11]

I think someone on reddit mentioned they saw Jumbo skating in practice today.

Is it confirmed? Wonder why Gackle or Kurtz wouldn’t tweet it.

 

[Negatively Positive]

It was the doppelganger. Jumbo's knees are shot so he's transferring his powers to a different vessel.

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

Is it confirmed? Wonder why Gackle or Kurtz wouldn’t tweet it.

I wish it was. You can only trust second hand sources for so long but apparently at least 2 people saw him.


But yeah, I'm not going to leap for joy until either one of Gackle, Kurz, or Pashelka confirm it.

 

[Barrie22]

I wish it was. You can only trust second hand sources for so long but apparently at least 2 people saw him.

But yeah, I'm not going to leap for joy until either one of Gackle, Kurz, or Pashelka confirm it.

It could be at a time where media is not allowed in the building.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Okay, I wanted to post these last night but couldn't get around to it. I was really impressed and honestly shocked by all of these numbers.

The following numbers are Joe Pavelski's numbers over the last 25 team games, all at 5v5, amongst players with at least 200 minutes played:

373:33 TOI (14th in the NHL among forwards)
18 blocked shots (20th in the NHL among forwards)
10 assists (23rd in the NHL)
16 points (19th in the NHL)
56 shots (34th in the NHL)
65 iSCF (13th in the NHL)
32 iHDCF (12th in the NHL)
0 penalties taken, 6 penalties drawn
53.09 CF%
53.73 FF%
54.11 SF%
62.86 GF% (60th in the NHL)
57.55 SCF% (30th in the NHL)
60.9% HDCF (21st in the NHL)
67.62 CF/60 (52nd in the NHL)
50.92 FF/60 (55th in the NHL)
38.07 SF/60 (30th in the NHL)
35.5 SCF/60 (31st in the NHL)
15.26 HDCF/60 (28th in the NHL)

He ranks very highly in a lot of individual stats as well as a lot of team stats. I can't find QoC or QoT for the last 25 games but his line has been the top line for the entire time.

 

[slocal]

Damn, those numbers are impressive. Is that official unsung hero-category Pavs is in, or is there another story when it comes to the numbers?

(I want to believe numbers can still be simple)

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Damn, those numbers are impressive. Is that official unsung hero-category Pavs is in, or is there another story when it comes to the numbers?

(I want to believe numbers can still be simple)

The numbers are about twice as beast for Pavelski in his time with Joonas Donskoi and they're not very good when he plays without Donskoi.

 

[WTFetus]

It could be at a time where media is not allowed in the building.

Are there really times where media isn't allowed but random plebs are? Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Barrie22]

Are there really times where media isn't allowed but random plebs are? Doesn't make sense to me.

I was thinking more along the lines of arena staff. There are lots of times when arena staff are allowed but media are not.

 

[WSS11]

Apparently the rumors are true

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Apparently the rumors are true

But while they were on the road last week? Either way, damn. I'm shocked as hell that the Reddit person wasn't lying.

 

[LadyStanley]

Progress for Jumbo. Now to see how things are

 

[Church Hill]

Real preliminary, boys.

 

[pappaf2]

 

[DrFeelgood]