Player Discussion: Josh Ho-Sang

[PK Cronin]

It's much more related to maturity than age in my opinion. And it's frankly rare that a coach uses the term "baby" to talk about a player.
And if Thompson was only referring to his age, it's not only a weak excuse (to explain his perhaps lack of maturity) but it's also a very funny expression to use.

Snow and Staple commented on that quote and said it was mostly about age (and somewhat maturity I guess), not a criticism. It shouldn't be taken the same way as "Crosby is a big baby on the ice," but closer to, "he's still very young, just a baby."

 

[redbull]

JHS is nowhere near the talent Potvin was. JHS had put up 1 point in the last 8 games before the 2/18 game in question here, so it seems like the issue is a lot more than him making the occasional mistake.

a lot of excuse makers for JHS but the fact is, he still plays like he's in junior. His rushes and dangles and looking for the highlight reel goal and damn the consequences - not exactly a team-first player. And not uncommon, happens to a lot of star junior players who are used to being the #1 player on their team.

Is it correctable? Absolutely. Depends on JHS's desire to change. It happens to SO MANY out-of-junior high-picks, not just the Islanders. I know Kadri was nearly out the door in TOR, for YEARS they tried to work with him and eventually he bought into being a SHUTDOWN guy before he started to score. I'd say the same for Marner, who still struggles at times with defensive play but works so hard on that part of his game, says the right things and he's become more effective even when he isn't scoring as much.

I'm on Garth for a lot of bonehead GM moves (and NON-MOVES) but I am not blaming him one bit for JHS. I can see why, out of pure desperation, why they "should" call him up - but Ho-Sang really needs to take ownership and make changes.

Now, he's not scoring at all in the AHL and I don't know if he's been focusing on his defensive play and/or how he's doing - but I just can't imagine him buying into becoming a great defensive player as well as a top offensive player. I hope that changes.

 

[PK Cronin]

a lot of excuse makers for JHS but the fact is, he still plays like he's in junior. His rushes and dangles and looking for the highlight reel goal and damn the consequences - not exactly a team-first player. And not uncommon, happens to a lot of star junior players who are used to being the #1 player on their team.

Is it correctable? Absolutely. Depends on JHS's desire to change. It happens to SO MANY out-of-junior high-picks, not just the Islanders. I know Kadri was nearly out the door in TOR, for YEARS they tried to work with him and eventually he bought into being a SHUTDOWN guy before he started to score. I'd say the same for Marner, who still struggles at times with defensive play but works so hard on that part of his game, says the right things and he's become more effective even when he isn't scoring as much.

I'm on Garth for a lot of bonehead GM moves (and NON-MOVES) but I am not blaming him one bit for JHS. I can see why, out of pure desperation, why they "should" call him up - but Ho-Sang really needs to take ownership and make changes.

Now, he's not scoring at all in the AHL and I don't know if he's been focusing on his defensive play and/or how he's doing - but I just can't imagine him buying into becoming a great defensive player as well as a top offensive player. I hope that changes.

One thing I've been thinking about because of Brazal and Ho-Sang is the possibility that the coaches are wrong in how the game should be played now. The coaches today played in a different NHL and it required different skill sets and strategy to win. Of course I believe in "buying in" to a system, but what if the system could be radically different because of the personnel and the coaches just aren't harnessing that? The way Barzal holds onto the puck, and Ho-Sang to some extent, it has the potential to fundamentally change the structure of the team and the strategy. I don't like the idea of a guy like Barzal being forced to move the puck simply because he's circled the offensive zone three times. What if him holding it for that long is actually a good strategy? Moving it just to move it, to a lesser skilled layer, seems counter-productive sometimes.

That's just something I've been thinking about for a little bit, figured I'd throw it out there. When it comes down to it, I'm much more a structure and defense oriented hockey mind than I am high flying offensive systems, so I'm not necessarily advocating for a revolutionary approach...just posing the question.

I'd like to add that even if the way Ho-Sang and Barzal play is a better option, they don't get a free pass to ignore their coaches instructions. That's a no-go in my book.

 

[Glory Days]

a lot of excuse makers for JHS but the fact is, he still plays like he's in junior. His rushes and dangles and looking for the highlight reel goal and damn the consequences - not exactly a team-first player. And not uncommon, happens to a lot of star junior players who are used to being the #1 player on their team.

Is it correctable? Absolutely. Depends on JHS's desire to change. It happens to SO MANY out-of-junior high-picks, not just the Islanders. I know Kadri was nearly out the door in TOR, for YEARS they tried to work with him and eventually he bought into being a SHUTDOWN guy before he started to score. I'd say the same for Marner, who still struggles at times with defensive play but works so hard on that part of his game, says the right things and he's become more effective even when he isn't scoring as much.

I'm on Garth for a lot of bonehead GM moves (and NON-MOVES) but I am not blaming him one bit for JHS. I can see why, out of pure desperation, why they "should" call him up - but Ho-Sang really needs to take ownership and make changes.

Now, he's not scoring at all in the AHL and I don't know if he's been focusing on his defensive play and/or how he's doing - but I just can't imagine him buying into becoming a great defensive player as well as a top offensive player. I hope that changes.

I agree. I am not overly concerned with his scoring in the AHL. Josh is a play maker and the Sound Tigers aren't exactly loaded with finishers. I hope he is concentrating on his D and play without the puck. The offense will take care of itself once he gets back to the NHL. It is the rest of his game that needs work in the AHL.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

One thing I've been thinking about because of Brazal and Ho-Sang is the possibility that the coaches are wrong in how the game should be played now. The coaches today played in a different NHL and it required different skill sets and strategy to win. Of course I believe in "buying in" to a system, but what if the system could be radically different because of the personnel and the coaches just aren't harnessing that? The way Barzal holds onto the puck, and Ho-Sang to some extent, it has the potential to fundamentally change the structure of the team and the strategy. I don't like the idea of a guy like Barzal being forced to move the puck simply because he's circled the offensive zone three times. What if him holding it for that long is actually a good strategy? Moving it just to move it, to a lesser skilled layer, seems counter-productive sometimes.

That's just something I've been thinking about for a little bit, figured I'd throw it out there. When it comes down to it, I'm much more a structure and defense oriented hockey mind than I am high flying offensive systems, so I'm not necessarily advocating for a revolutionary approach...just posing the question.

I'd like to add that even if the way Ho-Sang and Barzal play is a better option, they don't get a free pass to ignore their coaches instructions. That's a no-go in my book.

First off, I'm not saying you're saying they do, so hopefully that's not how this is interpreted. But I don't think Barzal and Ho-Sang play anything alike for them to be lumped into the same category of "skilled player who drives possession by hanging onto the puck".

Barzal does so within the context of a team game. Yes, he likes to hang onto the puck. Yes, he likes to skate with it. But he does so in conjunction with the other 4 players on the ice. He'll make a pass when the pass is the right play, he'll hold onto it when he needs to buy his teammates a second to get open.

Ho-Sang, IMO, too often just does his own thing. He'll dangle when he should pass, he'll make an ill-advised pass when he should dump it in, etc. It's an extreme example, but it's like the difference between Patrick Kane dangling out there and Robbie Schremp.

Maybe he'll end up making me look foolish (wouldn't be the first time), but I have my doubts Ho-Sang will ever maximize his natural talents because the guy seems to simply refuse to adapt his junior style game to the pros. He'll produce now and then because of his God-given talent, but he won't produce consistently playing the way he does. And I think this is showing up on the score sheet. For as "good" as Ho-Sang looks out there, his production is rather mediocre.

 

[redbull]

One thing I've been thinking about because of Brazal and Ho-Sang is the possibility that the coaches are wrong in how the game should be played now. The coaches today played in a different NHL and it required different skill sets and strategy to win. Of course I believe in "buying in" to a system, but what if the system could be radically different because of the personnel and the coaches just aren't harnessing that? The way Barzal holds onto the puck, and Ho-Sang to some extent, it has the potential to fundamentally change the structure of the team and the strategy. I don't like the idea of a guy like Barzal being forced to move the puck simply because he's circled the offensive zone three times. What if him holding it for that long is actually a good strategy? Moving it just to move it, to a lesser skilled layer, seems counter-productive sometimes.

That's just something I've been thinking about for a little bit, figured I'd throw it out there. When it comes down to it, I'm much more a structure and defense oriented hockey mind than I am high flying offensive systems, so I'm not necessarily advocating for a revolutionary approach...just posing the question.

I'd like to add that even if the way Ho-Sang and Barzal play is a better option, they don't get a free pass to ignore their coaches instructions. That's a no-go in my book.

I think it's totally fair to question this. I mean, Garth is a successless (that should be a word) GM and Weight is an inexperienced and successless coach, running a system with horrid PK, shots against, goals against, terrible W-L over the past 25-30 games and even worse when games matter.

I question all of this as well, including the style of play.

But not when it comes to JHS specifically simply because of the turnovers. It's a mistake driven league and whether you call it CORSI or Advanced Stats or Possession or "managing the puck" -- the amount of mistakes that lead to high-quality scoring changes against is astounding for this Isles team.

JHS is terrible in this aspect.

BUT so are many others, especially this year.

Ho-Sang, at least, can also balance the terrible defensive play with offensive ability and neutral zone speed, zone entries - but the truth is, existing players are almost as bad as H0-Sang with the mistakes/turnovers and bring ZERO offense (Quine, Prince, Fritz, Chimera, Clutterbuck has been awful this year, Tavares has been awful recently, Lee as well, Barzal's had a tough few weeks) - seems like they are ALL awful.

So you start to wonder whether it's the coaching/system or personnel.

It's probably a bit of everything.

The personnel on defense is also terrible. The mistakes and poor passes and slow skating (specifically poor decisions and lateral skating/defensive awareness) among Pelech, Pulock, Mayfield, Seidenberg are a thing of marvel. I think Hickey's been "good" (but if he's your second best defenseman or FIRST given Leddy's struggles this year) then what chance does your team have?

Boychuk, Leddy, Seidenberg, Hickey are all vets, they are what they are, won't get much better or worse (though Leddy's had a tough year basically on his own, Boychuk will never be and never was a puck-mover). Aho's young, has potential, but he's a #7 at best now.

The personnel is so bad that it's tough to blame the coach, but how can you trust a rookie coach who's never proven a THING at this level?

It's poor decisions at EVERY LEVEL in this organization. Impossible to adequately evaluate any of them, sadly. And it's GARTH who put them all there and who's in charge of evaluation (on-going) and FIXING (God help us all)

 

[periferal]

Polarizing player to say the least. Maybe Ho Sang does not want it bad enough?

I think it's exactly that. Because anyone with his raw skills should be a much better player even with a decent amount of effort. I think he's a very lax player who relies totally on those raw skills and that's just not good enough.

 

[periferal]

a lot of excuse makers for JHS but the fact is, he still plays like he's in junior. His rushes and dangles and looking for the highlight reel goal and damn the consequences - not exactly a team-first player. And not uncommon, happens to a lot of star junior players who are used to being the #1 player on their team.

Is it correctable? Absolutely. Depends on JHS's desire to change. It happens to SO MANY out-of-junior high-picks, not just the Islanders. I know Kadri was nearly out the door in TOR, for YEARS they tried to work with him and eventually he bought into being a SHUTDOWN guy before he started to score. I'd say the same for Marner, who still struggles at times with defensive play but works so hard on that part of his game, says the right things and he's become more effective even when he isn't scoring as much.

I'm on Garth for a lot of bonehead GM moves (and NON-MOVES) but I am not blaming him one bit for JHS. I can see why, out of pure desperation, why they "should" call him up - but Ho-Sang really needs to take ownership and make changes.

Now, he's not scoring at all in the AHL and I don't know if he's been focusing on his defensive play and/or how he's doing - but I just can't imagine him buying into becoming a great defensive player as well as a top offensive player. I hope that changes.

 

[BelovedIsles]

First off, I'm not saying you're saying they do, so hopefully that's not how this is interpreted. But I don't think Barzal and Ho-Sang play anything alike for them to be lumped into the same category of "skilled player who drives possession by hanging onto the puck".

Barzal does so within the context of a team game. Yes, he likes to hang onto the puck. Yes, he likes to skate with it. But he does so in conjunction with the other 4 players on the ice. He'll make a pass when the pass is the right play, he'll hold onto it when he needs to buy his teammates a second to get open.

Ho-Sang, IMO, too often just does his own thing. He'll dangle when he should pass, he'll make an ill-advised pass when he should dump it in, etc. It's an extreme example, but it's like the difference between Patrick Kane dangling out there and Robbie Schremp.

Maybe he'll end up making me look foolish (wouldn't be the first time), but I have my doubts Ho-Sang will ever maximize his natural talents because the guy seems to simply refuse to adapt his junior style game to the pros. He'll produce now and then because of his God-given talent, but he won't produce consistently playing the way he does. And I think this is showing up on the score sheet. For as "good" as Ho-Sang looks out there, his production is rather mediocre.

Spot on. I’ve always said that JHS has yet to learn how to adapt his assets to a systemic, team game. He doesn’t utilize and therefore maximize on his vast skills.

He is much like Schremp, even his mentality. Though he’s a far better skater than Schremp.

 

[Disgraced Cosmonaut]

Schremp was no JHS, but I agree that JHS needs to adapt. Can't see why a clearly bright individual wouldn't "buy in" at least until he's earned respect. He needs to earn his rogue stripes. He can't just go rogue without anybody believing that he's committed to the team generally.
Comes down to picking his spots better.

 

[C24]

a lot of excuse makers for JHS but the fact is, he still plays like he's in junior. His rushes and dangles and looking for the highlight reel goal and damn the consequences - not exactly a team-first player. And not uncommon, happens to a lot of star junior players who are used to being the #1 player on their team.

Is it correctable? Absolutely. Depends on JHS's desire to change. It happens to SO MANY out-of-junior high-picks, not just the Islanders. I know Kadri was nearly out the door in TOR, for YEARS they tried to work with him and eventually he bought into being a SHUTDOWN guy before he started to score. I'd say the same for Marner, who still struggles at times with defensive play but works so hard on that part of his game, says the right things and he's become more effective even when he isn't scoring as much.

I'm on Garth for a lot of bonehead GM moves (and NON-MOVES) but I am not blaming him one bit for JHS. I can see why, out of pure desperation, why they "should" call him up - but Ho-Sang really needs to take ownership and make changes.

Now, he's not scoring at all in the AHL and I don't know if he's been focusing on his defensive play and/or how he's doing - but I just can't imagine him buying into becoming a great defensive player as well as a top offensive player. I hope that changes.

Because burying him on the fourth line will help him develop. From Snow down this staff is terrible.

 

[Shimmy Cocopop]

2 assists tonight. Maybe he'll wake up and force them to call him up. The team can score without him, but adding a motivated JHS would give this team a boost to finish off the season.

 

[mm11]

2 assists tonight. Maybe he'll wake up and force them to call him up. The team can score without him, but adding a motivated JHS would give this team a boost to finish off the season.

yes that's the trick, somehow unlock that key to motivating JHS to play a solid team structure in huge games would be a jolt the 3rd line could use. He would open up that line but i'm afraid he just is not ready at all. Big learning exprience for this kid. Will he get it? No idea

 

[doublechili]

Good to see JHS get a couple of points. I hope he strings together a few productive games and forces the Isles to bring him up. He could really help on the 3rd line.

That's assuming of course he isn't traded by Monday night.

 

[Glory Days]

Nice story on Josh. I hope he has turned the corner.

Sound Tigers’ Ho-Sang ‘engaged physically and emotionally’ on road trip

 

[PK Cronin]

Nice story on Josh. I hope he has turned the corner.

Sound Tigers’ Ho-Sang ‘engaged physically and emotionally’ on road trip

When he's hustling he's at his best. I remember him doing that last season when he was called up, winning foot races to the corner and tying guys up, really working hard in the corners. If he can do that and bring his offensive flair he'll be great...as we all know.

 

[beach]

Now that the Isles' season is effectively over, and JHS' punishment has dragged on for months, now would be a perfect time to bring him up and see if he can play/act with maturity, so that the Isles have a better idea of where things stand going into next year. Plus, the new GM will be able to look at the tapes and make informed decisions about him

 

[Shimmy Cocopop]

Now that the Isles' season is effectively over, and JHS' punishment has dragged on for months, now would be a perfect time to bring him up and see if he can play/act with maturity, so that the Isles have a better idea of where things stand going into next year. Plus, the new GM will be able to look at the tapes and make informed decisions about him

While I'd love to see him called up and play well, the last thing I want to see is weight and snow take credit for his development and use it as justification for sticking around. Hasn'tH already saved weight once....

 

[Lame Lambert]

Call him up the night before a game and then send him back down an hour before the game. That’ll teach him.

 

[MJF]

Call him up so his trade value gets re-established. He’ll never get a fair shake here as long as Weight is head coach.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Call him up the night before a game and then send him back down an hour before the game. That’ll teach him.

Just don't call him up this weekend. Daylight Savings Time will play havoc with Ho-Sang's ability to set his alarm correctly.

 

[PK Cronin]

Just don't call him up this weekend. Daylight Savings Time will play havoc with Ho-Sang's ability to set his alarm correctly.

This weekend is daylight's savings? Nooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Rehabguy]

Nice story on Josh. I hope he has turned the corner.

Sound Tigers’ Ho-Sang ‘engaged physically and emotionally’ on road trip

“I responded because my coach allowed me to,” Ho-Sang said. “Tommer could’ve sat me, sent me to the ECHL. He let me respond, and we won three games in a row, and I had a point in all three.” He paused. “Thanks, Tommer.”

I wonder if there was another coach in Ho-Sang's life who didn't let him respond, who demoted him to a lesser league. Hmmmmmmmm.

 

[beach]

“I responded because my coach allowed me to,” Ho-Sang said. “Tommer could’ve sat me, sent me to the ECHL. He let me respond, and we won three games in a row, and I had a point in all three.” He paused. “Thanks, Tommer.”

I wonder if there was another coach in Ho-Sang's life who didn't let him respond, who demoted him to a lesser league. Hmmmmmmmm.

Wow, if that is interpreted as sarcasm coming from JHS, his days may be numbered.

 

[CREW99AW]

Wow, if that is interpreted as sarcasm coming from JHS, his days may be numbered.

If JHS wanted out, it would be pretty simple to demand a trade.

What is the cut off point for waiver options? At some point JHS will be out of waiver options and the isles will have to a) put up with his growing pains at the nhl level or b) trade him.