Confirmed with Link: Jordan Subban traded for Nic Dowd

[Pip]

He's certainly shown more than Subban and we're short on centers. For Subban to be "an AHL/NHL tweener" he would have to play a lot better than he has. I say this trade is a (very minor) win for us.

Dowd is not showing to be NHL caliber. In that case, putting him in the NHL isn’t a measure of his quality, but rather desperation of the organization. He looks like a downgrade on Chaput and even Megna

 

[Zippgunn]

Dowd is not showing to be NHL caliber. In that case, putting him in the NHL isn’t a measure of his quality, but rather desperation of the organization. He looks like a downgrade on Chaput and even Megna

...you forgot to add "based on the 15 minutes he has played for us". All I'm saying to the haters is give the guy a chance. Whatever happened to the classic Canuck fan battle cry: "just give him tiiiiiiiiime..."?

 

[strattonius]

We shouldnt be expecting anything more than a 4th liner with Dowd. Management needed to fill a hole at the expense of a B rated prospect. I agree with the trade because I dont think Subban will ever play in the NHL. I truly think the only reason there is a debate about that is because of the glamour of "Subban" and all the success his big brother has had. Looking at him objectively we see an undersized d-man with limited defensive awareness - Subban's intangible is that he is decent offensively.

 

[Hit the post]

We shouldnt be expecting anything more than a 4th liner with Dowd. Management needed to fill a hole at the expense of a B rated prospect. I agree with the trade because I dont think Subban will ever play in the NHL. I truly think the only reason there is a debate about that is because of the glamour of "Subban" and all the success his big brother has had. Looking at him objectively we see an undersized d-man with limited defensive awareness - Subban's intangible is that he is decent offensively.

I don't think one should be dealing B rated prospects for 4th liners.

 

[strattonius]

I don't think one should be dealing B rated prospects for 4th liners.

That was worded wrongly. Subban has shown nothing to be more than a C-rated prospect. He is a healthy scratch in the AHL, just how far would he have to develop to be an impact at all?

 

[FroshaugFan2]

We shouldnt be expecting anything more than a 4th liner with Dowd. Management needed to fill a hole at the expense of a B rated prospect. I agree with the trade because I dont think Subban will ever play in the NHL. I truly think the only reason there is a debate about that is because of the glamour of "Subban" and all the success his big brother has had. Looking at him objectively we see an undersized d-man with limited defensive awareness - Subban's intangible is that he is decent offensively.

On the 21st place Canucks, who have 4 forwards out with injuries, Dowd has played ~8 minutes a game and is set to be a healthy scratch tonight. Dowd looks more like a 17th forward than a fourth liner.

What exactly was the benefit of making this trade instead of claiming Tanner Kero?

 

[me2]

Doh'd.

 

[strattonius]

On the 21st place Canucks, who have 4 forwards out with injuries, Dowd has played ~8 minutes a game and is set to be a healthy scratch tonight. Dowd looks more like a 17th forward than a fourth liner.

What exactly was the benefit of making this trade instead of claiming Tanner Kero?

He's an average depth forward, I get it. What exactly do you see Subban as? He's currently a depth defensman in the AHL.

 

[FroshaugFan2]

He's an average depth forward, I get it. What exactly do you see Subban as? He's currently a depth defensman in the AHL.

I see Subban as a 22 year old, cheap, waiver exempt, non veteran, offensive star in the AHL. That's a valuable player to have in the AHL. Subban's NHL upside, or lack thereof, is irrelevant.

I see Dowd as a comparable to McKegg, Graovac, Kero, and Carpenter who have all been on waivers recently.

So again, what was the benefit in making this trade over picking up someone off of waivers?

 

[strattonius]

I see Subban as a 22 year old, cheap, waiver exempt, non veteran, offensive star in the AHL. That's a valuable player to have in the AHL. Subban's NHL upside, or lack thereof, is irrelevant.

I see Dowd as a comparable to McKegg, Graovac, Kero, and Carpenter who have all been on waivers recently.

So again, what was the benefit in making this trade over picking up someone off of waivers?

Subban is a healthy scratch in the AHL. He wasn't filling a need I guess. I don't see how that's valuable at all.

 

[racerjoe]

Subban is a healthy scratch in the AHL. He wasn't filling a need I guess. I don't see how that's valuable at all.

This isn't accurate of his play, and is more accurate of what the current management wants to do with him. He is Utica's defensive depth as per one of our best Posters on Utica;

You need to have a basic knowledge of the defensive situation in Utica at the moment.

Solid:
Wiercioch

average pushing good:
Sautner

Rookies treading water, but making some good plays to counterbalance the blunders. However, very often just as clueless in front of Demko as Subbie was:
Chatfield (the better defender of the two)
Brisebois

ECHL call-up:
Cederholm

ECHL call-up who isn't even good ECHL:
Stewart

ECHL PTO:
Cliff Watson (21 total pro games played to date all with the ECHL Utah Grizzlies)

That is the sum total of D-men currently available to the Utica Comets. Subbie is top 6 hands down out of this crew.

Subban is an AHL Allstar defensmen, that has it's value. He is also 6 years younger and can help the team even if he just stays in Utica more than a player like Dowd we can get for free.

Farther as has been pointed out in this thread, Subban is basically Clandening... I think the going rate for them is top 2 puck moving dmen...

 

[FroshaugFan2]

Subban is a healthy scratch in the AHL. He wasn't filling a need I guess. I don't see how that's valuable at all.

How did this trade benefit the Canucks more than picking up a forward off waivers would have?

Reports out of Utica were that he was playing much better before getting injured. Look up Bad Goalie's and Orcatown's posts on Subban's recent play and the defensive depth in Utica.

I already posted Subban's impressive AHL stats in this thread. He was one of the top offensive defencemen in the AHL as a 20 year old rookie and sophomore.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/138816929/
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/138819441/
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/138825569/

 

[Hit the post]

That was worded wrongly. Subban has shown nothing to be more than a C-rated prospect. He is a healthy scratch in the AHL, just how far would he have to develop to be an impact at all?

As I said before, yes, he has struggled this season - but last season he put up enough points to be selected to the AHL allstar game. It's hardly like we are flush full of offensive D-men prospects; or how about trying him out on wing (which was never done)?

4th liner depth should've been done in the off-season not during the season (when you have to pay a higher premium).

 

[strattonius]

Canucks needed a stop-gap forward to fill in minutes while Horvat and Sutter are down. Dowd is a UFA at the end of the season. There's no attachment to the trade. And clearly they don't see Subban as high as some of you.

I think Subban is an under-sized d-man who can't protect his own end in the AHL. That mix never translates to the NHL. He has limited offensive upside. Perhaps when Subban is 26 or 27 we will see him play 40 games in the NHL. It's clear they want to pave the way for another d-man next year to fill his position.

 

[Hit the post]

Canucks needed a stop-gap forward to fill in minutes while Horvat and Sutter are down.

AGAIN, the time to do this is *in the off-season* when the price is less than even a grade B/C/D/E prospect. In any event, a meh 4th liner ain't going to be much if any of a stop-gap when players like Horvat or even Sutter are out.

 

[racerjoe]

Canucks needed a stop-gap forward to fill in minutes while Horvat and Sutter are down. Dowd is a UFA at the end of the season. There's no attachment to the trade. And clearly they don't see Subban as high as some of you.

I think Subban is an under-sized d-man who can't protect his own end in the AHL. That mix never translates to the NHL. He has limited offensive upside. Perhaps when Subban is 26 or 27 we will see him play 40 games in the NHL. It's clear they want to pave the way for another d-man next year to fill his position.

Point is Subban is an asset, Dowd is a guy you can get for free.

AGAIN, the time to do this is *in the off-season* when the price is less than even a grade B/C/D/E prospect. In any event, a meh 4th liner ain't going to be much if any of a stop-gap when players like Horvat or even Sutter are out.

Or you know theses guys...

McKegg, Graovac, Kero, and Carpenter who have all been on waivers recently.

Hell wasn't Boll just on waivers?

 

[strattonius]

AGAIN, the time to do this is *in the off-season* when the price is less than even a grade B/C/D/E prospect. In any event, a meh 4th liner ain't going to be much if any of a stop-gap when players like Horvat or even Sutter are out.

They are looking to fill the position while these players are injured now though. This was never supposed to be in the off-season.

We can agree on Dowd being meh so far.

I think what a lot of people are having a hard time coming to terms with is that Subban is a dime a dozen, low rated prospect. I dont think they wanted to qualify Subban in the off-season.

 

[racerjoe]

They are looking to fill the position while these players are injured now though. This was never supposed to be in the off-season.

We can agree on Dowd being meh so far.

I think what a lot of people are having a hard time coming to terms with is that Subban is a dime a dozen, low rated prospect. I dont think they wanted to qualify Subban in the off-season.

NO! No one hold Subban in some super high regard. It is just Dowd holds so much less value is an asset we can get for free.

 

[Melvin]

Remembar how we signed Gagner, Vanek, and Burmistrov and when people complained about the kids being blocked we were told "but depppptthhhh1!"

And now we lose Horvat and we are immediately scrambling because we have no depth. Odd, that.

 

[Grub]

Remembar how we signed Gagner, Vanek, and Burmistrov and when people complained about the kids being blocked we were told "but depppptthhhh1!"

And now we lose Horvat and we are immediately scrambling because we have no depth. Odd, that.

Really some of our young prospects like Goldobin have been quite dissapointing.

 

[VanJack]

Subban is an RFA this off-season and would need to be 'qualified' then offered a new contract.....the chances of that happening even if he'd played the entire season in Utica?.....basically zero....my suspicion is that sometime in January when Sutter and Horvat are back, Dowd is on waivers and enroute to the Comets to help out their stretch run

 

[Zippgunn]

Looks to me like the Benning haters are seriously nit-picking. Their logic works something like this: Subban was an all star... last year. This year he has been a healthy scratch. Conclusion: he's an AHL all star. Wrong. He's a worthless player who will be gone at the end of the season. Just like Dowd who at least is a center and who, once his job is done here can go and be an asset in Utica. Unlike Subban.

 

[Nomobo]

Remembar how we signed Gagner, Vanek, and Burmistrov and when people complained about the kids being blocked we were told "but depppptthhhh1!"

And now we lose Horvat and we are immediately scrambling because we have no depth. Odd, that.

We've also lost Sutter, Dorsett, Beartshi and Gudbranson.

What kids are being blocked from playing?

 

[tantalum]

Why wouldn't you qualify a useful AHL asset that has no leverage and doesn't fall under the veteran label? weird.

 

[opendoor]

I still don't understand the idea that an AHL team that is one injury from dressing MacKenze Stewart (which might've already happened as Chatfield got shaken up in tonight's game) somehow has no need for a guy like Subban.