Jonathan Toews

[LordKOTL]

To be 100% fair to Toews, there have been quite a few times recently where he has put out Hossa-like 2-way defense and has bailed Keith's sorry arse out in the backend.

Yeah, it's not much, but it's something positive I think he deserves credit for. Yeah, he should be better in the offensive categories but I gotta give him credit for those "little things" like protecting the goalies from Keith playing lobotomized.

 

[hawksfan50]

Sorry but Tiews defensive work us not upto scratch either compared to the beast he was prior to the previous 2 seasons and 39 games into this won.. If you detect recent improvement it is an improvement from total pooh most of this season ...like going from an F to a C ..but he is paid $19.5 to be elite excellent defending and to combine that with at minimum a 70 pts guy and a +25 level C ..He is at +3 currently ..He is not at Selle level defensively thus season...so stop it...If you detect going from F level pkay to a C ,there still is a long way to go before we laud him for A performance lije he is supoised to give for that $$$$.

 

[hawksfan50]

Tiews shot ing at 9.5% in 30 GP...Career 14.5% ...sp huge difference..A long way to make up ..Needscto get hot in his 6 week spurt (hooefully).

 

[LDF]

To be 100% fair to Toews, there have been quite a few times recently where he has put out Hossa-like 2-way defense and has bailed Keith's sorry arse out in the backend.

Yeah, it's not much, but it's something positive I think he deserves credit for. Yeah, he should be better in the offensive categories but I gotta give him credit for those "little things" like protecting the goalies from Keith playing lobotomized.

exactly only those fan who keeps the hate will not recognize those little things.

 

[hawksfan50]

Look..you cannot hide from the ROI....Toews + Saad as 1st liners cost $16.5 m/ per to the cap hit...lousy production return on investment..

Compare to the Peg...Schiefele and Wheeler total cap hit $11.725...look at their production on a top line duo ..TIEWS AND SAAD way overpaid to what they are doing out there...What are they doing out there? Not a lit of much...Saad was brought back to ignite Toews back to "normal"...so far...huge FAIL ...We can blame Q for a lot..but not for the meh and p-poor results of the alleged 2 "stars" of our alleged "top line". No wherevto hide from the brutal facts ...Toews +3 Saad -2 ..Total ES impact for $16.5 = +1.. Garbage ROI both on points and on +/- and of course neither do I g much on our horrible pp..B-R-U-T-A-L!!!

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Tiews shot ing at 9.5% in 30 GP...Career 14.5% ...sp huge difference..A long way to make up ..Needscto get hot in his 6 week spurt (hooefully).

Last season was 10.5% so let's get there 1st!

 

[hawksfan50]

Now that is a $1million player...Anze Kopitar having a fantastic season so far...17 goals 22 assists. ..39 pts in 35 GP and +13...Compare to Toews paltry 22 points in 33GP and just +6...

Kopitar is older too !

Sure Kopitar is rebounding off a horrible season in 2016/17 ...but Tiews has had 2 consecutive below par seasons @58 points only prior to this less than 58 points pace he is on so far..49 games remaining tp wake up !!!! $10.5 ...remember $10?5..for only this production level ?Stealing money...

 

[LDF]

Now that is a $1million player...Anze Kopitar having a fantastic season so far...17 goals 22 assists. ..39 pts in 35 GP and +13...Compare to Toews paltry 22 points in 33GP and just +6...

Kopitar is older too !

Sure Kopitar is rebounding off a horrible season in 2016/17 ...but Tiews has had 2 consecutive below par seasons @58 points only prior to this less than 58 points pace he is on so far..49 games remaining tp wake up !!!! $10.5 ...remember $10?5..for only this production level ?Stealing money...

stealing money...... blah blah blah.................. anyone would have signed that contract. it is human nature....

like you really expect anyone say "hey wait, you are over-paying me, i am only worth xxxx"

wake up and smell some coffee.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Toews is overpaid on the basis that his play has dropped off quite a bit since he signed the deal. But he was NOT overpaid at the time the deal was signed. His market value was at least 2m over what he took in Chicago, and anyone who says they wouldn't have signed him and Kane to twin 10.5m deals back then, and would have let one or both walk, is full of shit, to say the least.

 

[LDF]

Toews is overpaid on the basis that his play has dropped off quite a bit since he signed the deal. But he was NOT overpaid at the time the deal was signed. His market value was at least 2m over what he took in Chicago, and anyone who says they wouldn't have signed him and Kane to twin 10.5m deals back then, and would have let one or both walk, is full of ****, to say the least.

there is no stipulation on redoing any contract it is considered an over-payment.

there is no contract in any sports that allows a contract to be redone.....

 

[ChiHawks10]

there is no stipulation on redoing any contract it is considered an over-payment.

there is no contract in any sports that allows a contract to be redone.....

What are you getting at here? I'm not quite understanding your point.

 

[LDF]

What are you getting at here? I'm not quite understanding your point.

every sporting team has made a union-owner contract agreement. long gone are the performance contract and when Seabs signed his contract, it was what the team FO personnel agreed to. it is not Seabs or his rep's fault that the team was willing to give a contract at what they thought he was worth nor is it the players and his agent fault to signing it to a long term.

i do not blame Seabs nor his rep for the contract he signed. the blame lies elsewhere.

 

[ChiHawks10]

every sporting team has made a union-owner contract agreement. long gone are the performance contract and when Seabs signed his contract, it was what the team FO personnel agreed to. it is not Seabs or his rep's fault that the team was willing to give a contract at what they thought he was worth nor is it the players and his agent fault to signing it to a long term.

i do not blame Seabs nor his rep for the contract he signed. the blame lies elsewhere.

Again, what is the point here?

I'm talking about Toews' contract in the Toews thread. Not Seabs' contract in a Seabs thread.

What does Seabs' contract have to do with Toews, his contract, and the fact that he got what he deserved in that contract?

 

[crazyhawk]

Look..you cannot hide from the ROI....Toews + Saad as 1st liners cost $16.5 m/ per to the cap hit...lousy production return on investment..

Compare to the Peg...Schiefele and Wheeler total cap hit $11.725...look at their production on a top line duo ..TIEWS AND SAAD way overpaid to what they are doing out there...What are they doing out there? Not a lit of much...Saad was brought back to ignite Toews back to "normal"...so far...huge FAIL ...We can blame Q for a lot..but not for the meh and p-poor results of the alleged 2 "stars" of our alleged "top line". No wherevto hide from the brutal facts ...Toews +3 Saad -2 ..Total ES impact for $16.5 = +1.. Garbage ROI both on points and on +/- and of course neither do I g much on our horrible pp..B-R-U-T-A-L!!!

Schiefele and Wheeler have won no cups ( Schiefele is also 4 years younger ). Toews and Kane got what they got due to the 3 cups and the fact that they are the faces of the franchise.
It sucks but it is the truth that players like Kane and Toews get the big paycheck due to what they HAVE accomplished ... sure the hope is that they will continue to produce at the same clip but in reality that is often not the case. Kopitar is having a bounce back year .. that's great but as you mentioned his previous couple were poor and there's no guarantee that next year he will again produce. We should feel blessed that the boys got 3 cups and that Kaner is still producing.
Maybe next life 50 you can be a sports icon and see it from the other side.

 

[LDF]

Again, what is the point here?

I'm talking about Toews' contract in the Toews thread. Not Seabs' contract in a Seabs thread.

What does Seabs' contract have to do with Toews, his contract, and the fact that he got what he deserved in that contract?

in your post the post #359, you posted your opinion on a reply that i was posting to 50. you interjected your reply for what ever reason. the topic among the posters were overpayment and players skills diminishing skills.

 

[ChiHawks10]

in your post the post #359, you posted your opinion on a reply that i was posting to 50. you interjected your reply for what ever reason. the topic among the posters were overpayment and players skills diminishing skills.

I was talking in regards to posts far above yours where people were discussing Toews and his contract and how much he should have been paid, etc. It had nothing to do with your post. If it had, I would have quoted your post. It just happened to be the next post below yours...

 

[LDF]

I was talking in regards to posts far above yours where people were discussing Toews and his contract and how much he should have been paid, etc. It had nothing to do with your post. If it had, I would have quoted your post. It just happened to be the next post below yours...

and that is why i try to add "ref", so posters can see what i was referring to.

 

[ChiHawks10]

and that is why i try to add "ref", so posters can see what i was referring to.

Fair enough. Typically I quote those I'm talking/discussing something with. I didn't because it was a page or more back. My mistake on that.

 

[LDF]

Fair enough. Typically I quote those I'm talking/discussing something with. I didn't because it was a page or more back. My mistake on that.

no problem ...... it is all good.

i love a good healthy debate.

 

[Little Psycho]

Schiefele and Wheeler have won no cups ( Schiefele is also 4 years younger ). Toews and Kane got what they got due to the 3 cups and the fact that they are the faces of the franchise.
It sucks but it is the truth that players like Kane and Toews get the big paycheck due to what they HAVE accomplished ... sure the hope is that they will continue to produce at the same clip but in reality that is often not the case. Kopitar is having a bounce back year .. that's great but as you mentioned his previous couple were poor and there's no guarantee that next year he will again produce. We should feel blessed that the boys got 3 cups and that Kaner is still producing.
Maybe next life 50 you can be a sports icon and see it from the other side.

Previous couple? He had only one bad season which was last year with 52 PTS. He has been consistent throughout his career.

2015/2016 74 PTS
2014/2015 64 PTS
2014/2013 70 PTS
2012/2013 42 PTS (lockout shorten season)
2011/2012 76 PTS
2010/2011 73 PTS

etc..

 

[crazyhawk]

Previous couple? He had only one bad season which was last year with 52 PTS. He has been consistent throughout his career.

2015/2016 74 PTS
2014/2015 64 PTS
2014/2013 70 PTS
2012/2013 42 PTS (lockout shorten season)
2011/2012 76 PTS
2010/2011 73 PTS

etc..

my bad .. I had thought it had been two seasons and didn't look it up.
my point though doesn't hinge upon Kopitar as he too is making the big dollars as is Toews

 

[hawksfan50]

Clearly the NHL needs to care more about saving the fans from bad GM overpay mistakes...There shoukd be a relief of at least 1 Mulligan on a bad contract by allowing 1 contract only as an "off book designation contract" to be declared at the beginning of each season ...there shoukd also be a provision for making tjis only for long service to the team or as an NHL player ...Either the player should be over age 30 ....or have played 10 seasons in NHL prior to the start of a current season ...or have played 8 consecutive seasons with the same NHL club...in any of these circumstances a team may opt to declare 1 player only each season as off book to the cap for that season. .Tge same player could be chosen again and again after that or replaced by another specially designated player who qualifies under tge criteria above..
Tge only caveat wouks be that players under potential circumvention penalties for re-capture could not qualify.


Look NFL gas it's special Franchise Player category..So there are leagues with some relief provisions to help teams maintain competitive status tgat woukd otherwise not be as deep because of cap constraints ...

The NHL should allow teams who either mistakenly gave out too long deals at too much payola to to one of its vet stars who subsequently goes into decline off form that earned him such a deal in the first place ,OR WHO SIMPLY age under a too long deal and who because of lengthy service to the team and it's brand ,may be worth more to team marketing than to current hockey ops succeed on the ice ...

Whatever ..the NHL needscto save fans from mistakes their GM made with certain vets cao-wuse ...I think having over 30 provisions or length of service to team or NHL would be enough to ensure that a team does not get cao relief too soon on a big Contract for a younger star ..Forvinstance there shoukd be no 2nd contract 8 yr relief at $12.5 million per seaon on a McDavid..not till he has passed at least 8 years service to Edmonton ..If such a super star came in at 18 to start his Entry deal then he could after 5 seasons thru his second deal with the club qualify for this special off book relief starting year 6 of the 2nd deal..This format could be tge NHL version of Franchise Player relief on a good value contract ...or be a Mulligan relief on a bad Value contract usually involving older player's over 30 ..whatever it woukd help teams in tge depth and competitive areas by utilizing cap savings for 1 other good player they otherwise could never carry.

This is not some concession to the "rich teams" ..clearly an EDM could use this with a McDavid after 8 years service ...But I'd an NYR or a CHI coukd designate one albatross contract to go off book on a player who probably never aging recovers the A form of his younger years of stardom for the team or bin the league ...then that should help such teams with several older player contracts at high amounts to remain more competitive ..By doing that it enhances parity rather than see some team's burdened by albatross vet contracts decline I'm compete ability because of such bad contracts ...as to not helping the non go the the non-Cap Limit teams who have extra cap space anyway..a 2nd thing the NHL should do is allow extra cap space to be traded for value (picks) back .


If the NHL alliwed both 1 off book special contract and 3xtra cap space to be tradeable this would really enhance competition. ..for non'Cap Limit teams getting extra picks for cap space trades helps then be more competitive down the line. .For cap limit spender teams burdened by albatross contracts to vets who no longer have goid ROI on 5heirvlenghty deals this special off book designation provides a relief to help them stay competitive now.So over both short and long term parity would be enhanced .
However such moves are too logical for Bettman et al to enact provisions such as these into any new CBA ..

 

[piteus]

I can live the contracts of Toews, Kane, and Keith. They received a premium but still performing. I also understood the Hossa contract. It was well worth it for 3 Cups. It's the Brent Seabrook deal I can't understand. The timing, length, cost, and NTC are head scratchers. Even if Keith has slowed a bit, there are teams willing to take that contract right now. I bet there is a team or two willing to trade for Toews. The Seabrook contract is radioactive with a half-life of plutonium.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

I'd be in favor of something like one buyout that would not count against the cap every 5 years

 

[pvr]

From HF50^ ^^..."saving the fans from bad GM overpay mistakes" by allowing an option to remove one contract from the books each year???!!!!

HF50, Do you ever read what you write, and contemplate the implications? That's one of the most absurd things you've said in a long time, and that's saying something. The players union would never allow any such move, and that kind of out would only allow GMs to be even more aggressive.

However, I don't expect that you'll reply to this, as you never reply to anyone. Just continue on pontificating and spewing absurdities without thought, and perseverating on the same two or three things that you currently have a wild hair about. The rest of us will carry on with our conversation.