Jonathan Toews

[ChiHawks10]

JD - Last night's number were honestly hilarious but they are good example of how far advanced analytics still have to go. The Hawks carried play but not like the numbers show.

They had what? 38 shots or some shit? I don't think more than 3 were from high danger areas. Everything from the perimeter and outside on the points. They just refuse to go to the middle of the ice, between the circles, in front of the net, etc. They look like a bunch of sissies out there.

 

[LordKOTL]

There were also 3-4 occasions where he dogged it on the back check and instead of skating hard you could actually see him *****ing. These are the plays that can't happen but have been happening more and more.

Other than Kemeny, I think a coaching change could help Toews the most.

We may be forced to agree to disagree about Toews this game, but can we at least agree Keith was one of, if not the worst guy on the ice last night?

 

[BK]

We may be forced to agree to disagree about Toews this game, but can we at least agree Keith was one of, if not the worst guy on the ice last night?

100%.

To be clear, I though Toews did some good things last night but the lack of effort that I saw was alarming and aggravating.

 

[LDF]

They had what? 38 shots or some ****? I don't think more than 3 were from high danger areas. Everything from the perimeter and outside on the points. They just refuse to go to the middle of the ice, between the circles, in front of the net, etc. They look like a bunch of sissies out there.

but at least they were shooting the damn puck to the f***ing net. unlike some other games they played.

 

[ChiHawks10]

but at least they were shooting the damn puck to the ****ing net. unlike some other games they played.

Meh. Yeah, it's nice to see them outshooting opponents. But the argument can be made that who gives a shit about that number. Hawks have 38 shots, and four of them are high danger and/or scoring chances from those areas of the ice. Caps have 20 shots, but ten of them are high danger and/or scoring chances. I'll take those 20/10 all day long and twice on Sunday over the 38/4.

 

[LDF]

Meh. Yeah, it's nice to see them outshooting opponents. But the argument can be made that who gives a **** about that number. Hawks have 38 shots, and four of them are high danger and/or scoring chances from those areas of the ice. Caps have 20 shots, but ten of them are high danger and/or scoring chances. I'll take those 20/10 all day long and twice on Sunday over the 38/4.

hey i am happy they can see the f***ing net, i was worried there that maybe their problem was medical and they all needed glasses.

but the best way to say this, it is a start. baby steps..... keeping shooting and then maybe the coach can teach them some other new game schemes.

 

[Backyard Hockey]

This thread ultimately belies the reality of this team and what Milbury was saying.

Notice in every game we are taking about one of the 4 or 5 following guys being the worst player on the ice - Toews, Keith,Kane, Seabrook, Saad. Notice these aren't 4th line plugs.

When you structure a cap team this way, your stars have to star. They aren't. They are the opposite. The guys you expect and need to star actually the worst players.

Sure a guy like Hartman is a bum but if the stars star, that's irrelevant and you'd even see production from the supporting cat when those stars star ala Anisimov with Kane and Panarin

People talking about Lance Bouma? Sure he has what people think should be Hino's roster spot but ultimately that should be Sharp or Hartman's spot. Bouma plays limited minutes and has been just fine. Hell, the fourth line has arguably been the best and most consistent line all season

I'm not going to get worked about about a forward who plays the least amount of minutes each game as an issue.

The issue is that Toews, Keith and Seabrook are routinely the worst players on the ice. And Kane shows up every third game. And Saad has been a major disappointment

If those are fixed, this team has at least 12 more points

 

[Backyard Hockey]

Think about this - let's take away the play of Crow and not focus on 'goalie wins'. Focus just on offense and D.

Here's a crazy thing - without the play of Artem Anisimov and Alex DeBrincat over the last month - a journeyman 3C/2C center coming off an injury and a 19 year old 5'6" rookie two biology credits short of a GED, the Hawks might very well have the worst point total in the West and possibly the NHL.

 

[ModryJazyk]

 

[dk2k]

One of the best centers in the league plays for my team AND I'M SO f***ING MAD ABOUT IT!!!!111!!

 

[CokenoPepsi]

One of the best centers in the league plays for my team AND I'M SO ****ING MAD ABOUT IT!!!!111!!

He isn't one of the best centers in the league...unless that list includes like 50 players

 

[BK]

Think about this - let's take away the play of Crow and not focus on 'goalie wins'. Focus just on offense and D.

Here's a crazy thing - without the play of Artem Anisimov and Alex DeBrincat over the last month - a journeyman 3C/2C center coming off an injury and a 19 year old 5'6" rookie two biology credits short of a GED, the Hawks might very well have the worst point total in the West and possibly the NHL.

The same can be said for most teams. Hell if Tampa didn't have Stamos and NK they would be a basement team. AA and Cat were expected to produce.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Yes, make an argument against the team, by removing the great play of players on the team, in a team sport. That makes sense. Said no one ever.

 

[plank]

Was listening yo Ray Ferraro on Overdrive today and they talked about the Hawks and Toews today, thought you guys might be interested on their take.

hour 2 at the 18 minute mark
Listen to Leafs Lunch on TuneIn

"Toews is virtually no factor"
"he looks like an old 30"
"I watched Ryan Johansen push him all over the ice last year and I was shocked"

I'm not trying to pile on Toews and I think they could have said the same thing about Seabrook and Keith.

 

[Pez68]

Was listening yo Ray Ferraro on Overdrive today and they talked about the Hawks and Toews today, thought you guys might be interested on their take.

hour 2 at the 18 minute mark
Listen to Leafs Lunch on TuneIn

"Toews is virtually no factor"
"he looks like an old 30"
"I watched Ryan Johansen push him all over the ice last year and I was shocked"

I'm not trying to pile on Toews and I think they could have said the same thing about Seabrook and Keith.

Nothing he said is inaccurate. Johansen owned him in the playoffs. Absolutely dominated him.

Toews was a -5 in that series with 2 points. Johansen was a +7 with 6 points.

How badly he was outplayed in that series really got me watching his game more closely. He is no longer doing most of the things we used to take for granted.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

What does Toews do well at this point?

 

[Putt Pirate]

Toews is weak as f***. Rarely wins a puck battle and slow to the puck often. Misses the net with shots ala Keith. Dude needs a few prime fillets to get his energy back instead of that tofu shit.

 

[Blackhawks]

The same can be said for most teams. Hell if Tampa didn't have Stamos and NK they would be a basement team. AA and Cat were expected to produce.

Cat was expected to produce and carry this team immediately? In what world was anyone expecting Cat to dominate the way he is? Everyone had high hopes but no one expected him to produce like he has in his first year, if Stan or anyone was depending on Cat for the team not to be a bottom feeder they were simply kidding themselves. This is simply a false statement and if you go to the Cat thread you would see people were excited but not having “expectations”, even Stan himself said he was thinking there would be some transition period and some AHL time possibly before even jumping to the NHL let alone making a big impact...

Also last time I checked Tampa wasn’t 11th in their conference so even if they had two guys down they would still be in good shape, the Hawks have had two good players down in the past the they weathered the storm, good teams overcome crappy teams sink to the bottom. This team is crap! Without Cat this team would have 3-4 less wins easily and there ain’t no way coming back from that.

 

[TLEH]

Guys not a difference maker anymore.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Funny he is actually on a 4 game point streak but the two goals he scored were meaningless and the other two were secondary but at least two points out of it

 

[Hawkaholic]

Oh ya, OT pts don't count, secondary pts don't count, a goal late in the game doesn't count. He just scores 9 pts in his last 11 games, and they don't count.

 

[hawksfan50]

But here is the thing...D-Cat has more points now than Toews and is only behind him by 2 in the positive +/-...So I guess we gotta pay D-Cat $10..5 too next contract on "comaparables"...more cause he plays less monutes than Toews and unlike Toews does not get 1st pp unit featuring..


Now Toews cannot be that bad cause he is ONLY 7 pts behind KANE but is +3 to Kane's -5 ....But then Kane is only 2 ahead of Panarin in points but Panarin is a gaudy +6 compated to the combined +3 and -5 of Toews and Kane respectively ..Thus we glean that the net 5x5 contribution of our $21 million a year investment is -2 and the star we traded who earns a lot less than either of our 2 $10.5 guys is a differential of 8 positive differential in comparison to their impact 9n the bottom line at evens..

My point being that BOTH 19 and 88 are pooping out their seasons. ..P-Poorvtotalncontributions exceot to Corsi ..but hey ..that gives you Nothing ..Stars star when they produce and buy in to defending as our 2 big "stars do not seem much interested in attempting to execute ...to busy at the Country Club. .

 

[Panzerspitze]

Toews is weak as ****. Rarely wins a puck battle and slow to the puck often. Misses the net with shots ala Keith. Dude needs a few prime fillets to get his energy back instead of that tofu ****.

Sumo players eat tofu as their main diet. They're huge.

 

[Panzerspitze]

What does Toews do well at this point?

Obligatory: Cashing the paycheck from Stanley.

 

[JaegerDice]

Oh ya, OT pts don't count, secondary pts don't count, a goal late in the game doesn't count. He just scores 9 pts in his last 11 games, and they don't count.

The only points that count are the ones that fit my narrative.