Injury Report: Jonas Brodin (Injured Paw)
- Thread starter Minnesota
- Start date
I think he meant why is Brodin not doing that here
Dang, that flew right over my head. Then again, I haven't really been watching the tournament going on.
One wonders what his stats would be if he was still playing witH SuTer. I don't get all the complaints...he got his career high in points, and by a long shot.
BagHead
Registered User
I think people are frustrated with him just because they are now seeing what he is capable of. He put up his new career high in the NHL this year, and now it's looking like he still has even more to give, if he'd just open up his game a bit more. I will admit at times that I've grown frustrated watching him; he's a silky smooth player with and without the puck, and yet he does almost nothing that would be considered offensively expressive. He has that old Wild mentality of playing overly conservative in an attempt to make no mistakes. With Sweden though, he opens up a bit more.
Dickie Dunn
Registered User
Showing my age here but I watch him sometimes and think he could be the next Craig Hartsburg but he just doesn't allow his game to become that. Happier being Curt Giles. Very useful either way.
Oooo....one of my all time fav Dmen. Two of them, actually. Love Giles....he coached my son a bit and he was great. The size of Spurgeon, but hit like a truck.
I agree that Brodin is a bit of a tease offensively. If he could chip in more offensively( possible), and Dumba could imporve defensively (less likely)we'd have a hell of a top 4 D.
I think Brodin would do more offensively if he had a partner he trusted or didn't feel the need to babysit. He does have a decent shot from the point, but he rarely uses it.
His game has the same effortless flow (good thing) to it that Suter has, and is just always in the right position. Compared to Spurgeon, who (whom?) has to work for everything, lots of scrambling.
I forget how fast Brodin can skate most of the time. The Gaudreau (soft) goal against Sweden was a reminder for me.
It's not so much his speed, but his agility on his skates. That's where he and Spurgeon seperate themselves from Dumba and Scandella, who both have good to excellent speed going forward.
I would be very excited about Dumba's game if he spent all summer working on his agility, backwards to forwards transitions, and turns. I think a lot of his bad decisions come because his feet aren't in the right place, which causes him to be stuck in situations and not have a good view of the options available to him. He also just plain overstrides when going backwards, putting himself out of position. It's just a matter of getting the work in. The physical talent is there.
I would be very excited about Dumba's game if he spent all summer working on his agility, backwards to forwards transitions, and turns. I think a lot of his bad decisions come because his feet aren't in the right place, which causes him to be stuck in situations and not have a good view of the options available to him. He also just plain overstrides when going backwards, putting himself out of position. It's just a matter of getting the work in. The physical talent is there.
True, but you cannot teach natural skating ability like Brodin has or obviously IQ imo. So if we are talking like who would you rather have between him and Dumba I think it makes more sense to stick with Brodin and hope we can start to put him in better positions to score cause correct me if im wrong but doesn't he mostly start in defensive zone faceoffs ever since he left Suter's side?
I remember looking at the faceoff totals a few days ago. If you pro-rate Brodin's 5v5 faceoffs to match GP to Dumba he would have taken 13 less defensive zone draws and a boat load (86) fewer offensive zone faceoffs (overall is 295 off vs 340 def for Brodin). The offensive zone starts was about what I was expecting. Surprised by the d-zone starts. I'd rather keep both at all costs.
Dickie Dunn
Registered User
I could be wrong (often I am) but I think "we" are hesitant to see Dumba leave because of what Burns turned into offensively. Tough to see a former Wild player contend for a Hart trophy when we've been so starved for star players. But give me the steady consistency of Brodin long term.
nickschultzfan
Registered User
- Jan 7, 2009
- 11,558
- 908
The Dumba = Burns has just got to stop. It's just an emotional reaction not based on logic.
That's like saying you cannot break up with your current girlfriend because one of your previous girlfriends with some similarities got super hot after you left her.
They are two different people. They are independent and there is no cause-effect link between them.
Yes, but what if your current girlfriend is getting hotter every day and you already think she's attractive?
Dumba has taken games over before. He's flashed that potential. If he goes now just you wait to see the reaction when he breaks out completely. What a catastrophe that would be.
Dumba has taken games over before. He's flashed that potential. If he goes now just you wait to see the reaction when he breaks out completely. What a catastrophe that would be.
Just because you fail to see the potential of Dumba's game doesn't mean the rest of us have to lose patience in a 22 year old with quality offensive instincts that is getting above avg defensively.
Minnesnota
Registered User
- Aug 5, 2011
- 28,376
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We're getting hung up on words and direct comparisons.
Bottom line? Dumba has the potential to be a difference-maker. Brodin less so.
I completely disagree. Playing D in the NHL now is extremely hard because EVERYONE can skate, even 4th liners, and the skills are better than they have ever been. The minors are full of plodding Dmen, and Offenseman who jump into the play all the time but can't defend their position.
Rushing the puck and jumping into the play is fun! Getting back and trying not to get deked out of your jock or blown around by guys like McDavid is the tough part. Throw in the skills needed to retrieve and escape with the puck while some 240 lb power forward is breathing down your back...this is the stuff(among many other things) that Brodin, Suter, and Spurgeon do often, and that Dumba does seldom.
You're kidding yourself if you think that what Brodin does is easy, or not appreciated by NHL coaches.
Not everyone agrees with that though. I honestly don't think Dumba will ever amount to anything special, and I agree that the Burns comparison isn't really fair. The problem is there's really no way to know for sure. All of us are just guessing at this point; I'm sure glad I'm not GMCF, who has to make that call. Still, if I had to guess who the better player was at the end of their careers, I'd take Brodin as of now.
Now of course, that doesn't mean keep Brodin and trade Dumba. In fact, it could be the opposite still for salary/value reasons.
Yeah, I don't think Dumba is anywhere close to above-average defensively right now. Definitely do not agree with that statement (as of this moment in time - of course things can change).
Using the playoffs as an example: Dumba was on for one goal against total. An empty netter. Five games and no real goals scored against. He was also 5th on the team in terms of offensive zone vs defensive zone start percentage (57.78%), behind Prosser(90.91%), Folin(73.33%), Brodin(61.11%) and Suter(60.49%).
At worst he's improved himself into the average defense type. Not bad for an offensive dman whose GF% ranks #29 among dmen with 750 mins played, whose GF60 ranks #11 among dmen with 750 mins played, whose PDO ranks #6 among dmen with 750 mins played.
Dumba is a special offensive dmen. Not an opinion laced in emotions but rather in facts.
An aside to these two comments, personally think it's sad when posters go out of their way to dog on their team's players for something stupid like the expansion draft. Can't wait for it to be over.
- Aug 5, 2011
- 28,376
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Okay, let's look at potential. I know player development paths aren't linear, but Brodin's hasn't shown much growth in the past ~2 seasons. His point totals have gone up (as has the rest of the team's), but his defensive play has plateaued at the very best. Some might argue he's gotten worse.
You can take it as an opinion, but I think Dumba's been consistently getting better season-to-season. Until that growth stops, I'll take him 99 times out of 100.
Dickie Dunn
Registered User
I wasn't attempting to throw gas on the fire and start the Burns=Dumba thing all over again. Just pointing out that within the continuum of possible outcomes, seeing another reckless yet talented young offensive defenseman leave might sting a little extra because of Burns.
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