Jokerit 17/18 - Scooters Gonna Scoot

[Jussi]

that is highly likely your opinion.

It's a direct translation. Every Finnish poster here who has watched Harkimo in the spotlight since 1991 knows that he enjoys it too much to be able to keep such a thing hidden.

 

[Ruudukkopupuset]

There have been whole books written about Hjalmari's no daylight holding business endeavours so I wouldn't say you should be transmitting or accepting everything around this transition as it is said or written for it is very multi-dimensional operation to begin with.

 

[Jussi]

There have been whole books written about Hjalmari's no daylight holding business endeavours so I wouldn't say you should be transmitting or accepting everything around this transition as it is said or written for it is very multi-dimensional operation to begin with.

Let's just say that when he's in a public spotlight as a politician and possibly starting a new party, he really can't be lying on a live tv show about these sort of things, if he wishes to have any credibility.

 

[CPFC]

Let's just say that when he's in a public spotlight as a politician and possibly starting a new party, he really can't be lying on a live tv show about these sort of things, if he wishes to have any credibility.

He's a politician and a businessman, so he knows how to say stuff without actually meaning anything. Technically you don't have a buyer until someone has made a legally binding decision to buy. Doesn't mean he couldn't have a buyer lined up and ready with the finer details still being worked on.

But yeah, I don't know.

 

[Ruudukkopupuset]

And the possible new party surely isn't a proper party in the sense that there would be anyone's long-term political future to worry about so I wouldn't say it is exactly clear who is playing and into which goal.

I am interested in whether Jokerit would even have an option or enough goodwill by the oligarchs to return to SM-liiga. Or would the team simply fold in the way of FC Jokerit with some supporter organized team then taking place in the lower leagues.

 

[Albatros]

I'm not sure that the current incarnation of Jokerit can return to the SM-liiga at all, they would have to let it go bankrupt and establish a new professional organization for that purpose.

 

[Jussi]

I'm not sure that the current incarnation of Jokerit can return to the SM-liiga at all, they would have to let it go bankrupt and establish a new professional organization for that purpose.

It could happen if Jokerit Ry refuses to lease the rights to the name and logo to the new owner and a new club is founded in Finland and they lease the rights to both to that club.

 

[Albatros]

Something like that, but an easy way out it wouldn't be. It would be a club without an arena, without a team, probably with very limited financial resources. For the brand it would be damaging to end up playing Mestis somewhere in the suburbs.

 

[Jussi]

Something like that, but an easy way out it wouldn't be. It would be a club without an arena, without a team, probably with very limited financial resources. For the brand it would be damaging to end up playing Mestis somewhere in the suburbs.

Unless they plan to play in the new arena that will be built in Helsinki. Start from the botton, play at Tikkurila arena with actual Jokerit juniors and work themselves up.

 

[Albatros]

The Garden? Maybe, but it'll be difficult for them with IFK calling the shots. It'd be even more lopsided than Tappara-Ilves in Tampere. And in Turku the Mestis team has their own arena. I don't know if Kiekko-Vantaa could realistically become Jokerit, maybe not.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

Unless they plan to play in the new arena that will be built in Helsinki. Start from the botton, play at Tikkurila arena with actual Jokerit juniors and work themselves up.

Jussi, you are like the Japanese holdouts after the WW2
Jokerit will play in the KHL long time, get over it.

 

[Exarz]

Jussi, you are like the Japanese holdouts after the WW2
Jokerit will play in the KHL long time, get over it.

This was just pure speculation what would happen if they decided to go back playing in Finland... It's pretty clear that Jokerit will stay in the KHL for at least 4 more seasons.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

It's pretty clear that Jokerit will stay in the KHL for at least 4 more seasons.

It is, but Jussi can still dream

 

[Jussi]

The Garden? Maybe, but it'll be difficult for them with IFK calling the shots. It'd be even more lopsided than Tappara-Ilves in Tampere. And in Turku the Mestis team has their own arena. I don't know if Kiekko-Vantaa could realistically become Jokerit, maybe not.

IFK won't be calling all the shots as they wouldn't be the owners of the arena. They simply started the project. The more users the arena has, the more profitable it's use would be. A second hockey team would help in that.

 

[Jussi]

According to Antti Pihlström, he and other Jokerit players are owed salary from a few months: Antti Pihlströmiltä kova paljastus Jokerien palkkarästeistä: ”Onhan niitä muutamalta kuukaudelta”

 

[Exarz]

Örebro's Sakari Manninen has used his KHL option and is expected to sign with Jokerit

 

[vorky]

Örebro's Sakari Manninen has used his KHL option and is expected to sign with Jokerit

Will Jokerit pay something to Örebro? Or a clause is "for free"? I ask because google translate say something about buying... poor translation?

I sitt kontrakt har Sakari haft en klausul som gör att ett KHL-lag kan köpa loss honom.

In his contract, Sakari has a clause allowing a KHL team to buy him.

source

 

[Exarz]

Will Jokerit pay something to Örebro? Or a clause is "for free"? I ask because google translate say something about buying... poor translation?




source

He has a KHL option (which most SHL players have) that lets him terminate his contract if he receives an offer from a KHL team

 

[vorky]

He has a KHL option (which most SHL players have) that lets him terminate his contract if he receives an offer from a KHL team

Thx. If I get it, Jokerit will not pay anything.

That transfer system is really bad. A player can just leave without compensation to his former team whenever he wants.

 

[Jussi]

Thx. If I get it, Jokerit will not pay anything.

That transfer system is really bad. A player can just leave without compensation to his former team whenever he wants.

Perhaps the KHL should negotiate a transfer system with other European leagues then? Maybe put in an automatic release clause but guaranteed transfer amount paid to the player's former team? Because the leagues can't prevent these clauses because it'd be considered limiting labour movement and because every agent now demands one for his client and few teams decline because the market doesn't favour the clubs. Basically teams make more money from NHL transfers than KHL ones.

 

[vorky]

Perhaps the KHL should negotiate a transfer system with other European leagues then? Maybe put in an automatic release clause but guaranteed transfer amount paid to the player's former team? Because the leagues can't prevent these clauses because it'd be considered limiting labour movement and because every agent now demands one for his client and few teams decline because the market doesn't favour the clubs. Basically teams make more money from NHL transfers than KHL ones.

My reply to bold part is "no." There are the same transfer rules for European leagues and the KHL. You know, the IIHF rules. No need for special rules. You remember how the KHL clubs paid money to SHL teams for releasing players back in 2008 or so. Yes, situation has changed. The IIHF should fix it.

You live in a world where special agreement is needed, because the NHL has such. Of course, there is no need for special agreement. Only reason for the NHL transfer agreement is because the NHL wants all players for cheap compensation.

I do not understand you. You say "prohibition of clauses are against labout movement." In other sentence you say "few teams decline clauses." So, is prohibition of clauses legal or illegal? Jussi, you contradict yourself. Perhaps, the clause is an agreement between a club and a player. If they can agree on clause claiming "a player can terminate contract if receving an KHL offer. The release is done without compensation for a club." They can also agree on clause claiming "a player can terminate contract if receving an KHL offer. The release is done with compensation of XY USD/EUR for a club." And please, stop using "labour movement" argument, because you do not understand what it means & where/how it is applied.

Agree, the market is not balanced, players are too strong. Theferoe the IIHF should fix it.

 

[powerplaymaker]

Thx. If I get it, Jokerit will not pay anything.

That transfer system is really bad. A player can just leave without compensation to his former team whenever he wants.

It's one way for the teams to attract potential good players. They dont have to offer the KHL clause. If the player is so important in the long run, then they shouldnt offer the possibility to move to KHL in the first place..

It's all about the contarct between the player and the team. If their intrests meet, boom you hava a deal.

 

[vorky]

It's one way for the teams to attract potential good players. They dont have to offer the KHL clause. If the player is so important in the long run, then they shouldnt offer the possibility to move to KHL in the first place..

It's all about the contarct between the player and the team. If their intrests meet, boom you hava a deal.

Of course, a clause is an agreement between both sides as I understand it. What is a sense of a clause? It is a guarantee for a player who can sign with whatever club which meets the sum of a clause and a club is obligated to release him. On the other hand, it is a guarantee for a club, that his player will not go for free. There needs to be balance between a player/a club. It does not make sense to stipulate a clause claiming a player can go for free. No balance.

It is not good for development of hockey if players are more powerful than clubs. I mean, ALL clubs, not only the NHL (and the KHL) clubs. This inbalance was introduced into hockey to favour the NHL, who has been the only league profiting from the system for a long time. It is a simple bussiness, the NHL gets any player for almost nothing. And the KHL jumped to this wagon. Why should the KHL pay a fair transfer fee for a player, if the NHL (who getting better players) pays much much less? There is only loser in this system - European clubs.

 

[Jussi]

My reply to bold part is "no." There are the same transfer rules for European leagues and the KHL. You know, the IIHF rules. No need for special rules. You remember how the KHL clubs paid money to SHL teams for releasing players back in 2008 or so. Yes, situation has changed. The IIHF should fix it.

You live in a world where special agreement is needed, because the NHL has such. Of course, there is no need for special agreement. Only reason for the NHL transfer agreement is because the NHL wants all players for cheap compensation.

I do not understand you. You say "prohibition of clauses are against labout movement." In other sentence you say "few teams decline clauses." So, is prohibition of clauses legal or illegal? Jussi, you contradict yourself. Perhaps, the clause is an agreement between a club and a player. If they can agree on clause claiming "a player can terminate contract if receving an KHL offer. The release is done without compensation for a club." They can also agree on clause claiming "a player can terminate contract if receving an KHL offer. The release is done with compensation of XY USD/EUR for a club." And please, stop using "labour movement" argument, because you do not understand what it means & where/how it is applied.

Agree, the market is not balanced, players are too strong. Theferoe the IIHF should fix it.

It seems your English skills fail you again. The employer trying to prevent the employee from switching jobs is sort of against labour laws in Finland for example. Thus, against laws/rregulations. Few teams decline out clauses because they know other teams won't.

IIHF is not going to "fix" anything until the clubs start demanding it. And if they do, the various player associations would counter it by taking it EU court which tends to favor the employee.

 

[Jussi]

It's one way for the teams to attract potential good players. They dont have to offer the KHL clause. If the player is so important in the long run, then they shouldnt offer the possibility to move to KHL in the first place..

It's all about the contarct between the player and the team. If their intrests meet, boom you hava a deal.

Because it's a player's market, pretty much every player wants an out-clause. Clubs know if they don't want to sign a conract with one, their rival will.