Johnsson or Kapanen your choice

saltming

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That lines offensive stats haven't taken a hit either with Brown so their scoring and not getting scored on

I'm not sure why were changing things in that case?



We're worse 5v5 with Komarov on the team and that's inarguable, statistically and by eye test the only thing he helps is the PK which is pretty good without him

Your using exactly the same argument people use as a justification to move Hyman

Seen this by chance?
"Sure the line works but changing things will make it better with this other guy" which when you look at things logically seems pretty unlikely as that line is kicking ass right now
No my logic is supported by the fact that AJ can do browns job and add to it. We do not have a hyman replacement yet
 

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44 is Rielly good
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If it is a tie it goes to the veteran, so that means Kapanen and Johnsson should both stay in the line-up ;)

Honestly, I'm positive Kapanen is going to stay over Johnsson for three reasons:
1. Kapanen fills the available roles better (He's a good-great PKer, can be physical when playing on the 4th line, and is better defensively).
2. Kapanen killed it last year in the playoffs vs. WSH.
3. Kapanen has been up with the Leafs longer than Johnsson, while Johnsson was brought up due to Komorov's injury and Kap's done nothing wrong to lose his spot.

Komorov is going to get in because Babcock trusts him more and playing Boston or TBL means we need good defensive players to succeed.

Next year Johnsson and Kapanen should both be top 9 guys for Toronto. Something like the following:

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Marleau - Kadri - Marner
Johnsson - Bozak - Kapanen
Komorov - XXX - Brown

Although I would like to see a Johnsson - Nylander - Kapanen line ;)
 

diceman934

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Leo plays and Johnsson sits...

Leo is a huge pain in the rear end to play against and the other two not so much.

Johnsson likely goes down and plays for the Marlies come their playoff time.
 

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44 is Rielly good
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Leo plays and Johnsson sits...

Leo is a huge pain in the rear end to play against and the other two not so much.

While I agree, I think Kapanen is a pain in the ass to play against in a different way due to his speed. Guys like him, Grabner, prime Hagelin, etc. are a pain to defend (especially on the PK).

Komorov over 7 games is good at wearing down top players like Bergeron, Pastrnak, and Marchand.
 

diceman934

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While I agree, I think Kapanen is a pain in the ass to play against in a different way due to his speed. Guys like him, Grabner, prime Hagelin, etc. are a pain to defend (especially on the PK).

Komorov over 7 games is good at wearing down top players like Bergeron, Pastrnak, and Marchand.
His speed on the PK is the prime reason he is up playing next year he moves up in the lineup.
 

CantLoseWithMatthews

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Leo plays and Johnsson sits...

Leo is a huge pain in the rear end to play against and the other two not so much.

Johnsson likely goes down and plays for the Marlies come their playoff time.
Johnsson and Kapanen give teams fits with their speed. I'm sure Eichel didn't love getting pushed off the puck by Kapanen allowing for an odd man rush the other way. Both guys play hard too, although don't have the weight to back it up yet.

Also Komarov might be mean, but he's playing defense most of the time he's out there. Kapanen and Johnsson make the other team play defense
 

saltming

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sure we do. If Babs would bother to try someone else it would be pretty obvious that Hyman isn't the only guy who could play there
The only one close we have on the team that's close is Leo and he's not the skater hyman is and I still think hyman is a better forechecker but let's stop this here. It's been killed in the hyman threads
 

Kiwi

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No my logic is supported by the fact that AJ can do browns job and add to it. We do not have a hyman replacement yet

You mean the first guy on the forecheck with excellent defensive play that gives the other two guys a good chance to play there game

Hmmmm, sounds a bit similar doesn't it? I'm quietly confident you like that on the Matthews line so what's your issue with Brown? Let's just swap Johnsson for Hyman since that's replaceable now, or is it?

They wanted to jump start Kadri's line which was in a huge slump.

Which worked and the Bozak line hasn't missed a beat since Brown was put there

When you consider how well Marner has been playing that's saying something
 

leaffaninvancouver

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Which worked and the Bozak line hasn't missed a beat since Brown was put there

When you consider how well Marner has been playing that's saying something

Right but that doesn't change the issue that Brown in my opinion is still the weakest link on the wing this year. AJ will almost certainly be the one swapped out, I just think it should be Brown.
 

saltming

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You mean the first guy on the forecheck with excellent defensive play that gives the other two guys a good chance to play there game

Hmmmm, sounds a bit similar doesn't it? I'm quietly confident you like that on the Matthews line so what's your issue with Brown? Let's just swap Johnsson for Hyman since that's replaceable now, or is it?



Which worked and the Bozak line hasn't missed a beat since Brown was put there

When you consider how well Marner has been playing that's saying something
Read what I'm saying
Brown 6' 185 lbs
Johnsson 5'10" 180 lbs
Skating slight edge Johnsson
Shot AJ
Hands AJ
Defensive a draw

Hyman 6'1" 215 lbs
AJ 5'10" 180lbs
Speed hyman
Edges AJ
Hands AJ
Shot AJ
Defence hyman

Forechecking against 3rd pairing is not the same as bs 1st pairing guys and neither brown nor AJ forechecking as hard as hyman.

AJ is extremely comparable to brown but a bit more skilled and brown is invisible ATM. AJ could do it.

As I've said we don't have a hyman replacement yet. We could replace him but it would be a player with a different skill set so more of an adjustment for the line. AJ could slot into browns spot, play the same game and bring more to the table right now.

Also let's not make this yet another hyman thread because it's very tangential to the talk we are having
 

meefer

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While Komarov does have high points per game, it's a pretty unfair comparison since he generally gets way more ice time.
Johnsson: .98 p/60
Komarov: 0.69 p/60
obviously, Johnsson has been getting very unlucky and has created tons of chances for himself, but he still is more productive with his minutes than Komarov is.

Our PK has been fine without Komarov, and our 5v5 play has been better. Johnsson's possession and expected goals are much better than Komarov's, because he drives play so much better. Komarov isn't a good agitator because he takes more penalties than he draws. At least Johnsson can use his speed to give the other team fits and draw penalties. Really the only advantage Komarov has is his weight, which isn't good enough

Fair point comparing their /60, however to argue his possession and expected goals is based on a small sample size and I'll take the proven D capabilities over 'expected'. Until he produces and I believe he eventually will, Leo would be my choice.
 

MR4

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It sucks when you're discussing if your 5th and 6th best wingers should be in the press box
 

fahad203

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The original ask was. Kappy or Jhonson

I say Kappy. Kappy had a mean streak last game. He was hitting everything. Loved it. He also showcased that last year in the playoffs. We need more of that in the playoffs

On top of that, he has shown he can play all zones, all the time.

In a perfect world, I would duck tape Hyman to the press box but hey, what do I know
 

Kiwi

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Read what I'm saying
Brown 6' 185 lbs
Johnsson 5'10" 180 lbs
Skating slight edge Johnsson
Shot AJ
Hands AJ
Defensive a draw

Hyman 6'1" 215 lbs
AJ 5'10" 180lbs
Speed hyman
Edges AJ
Hands AJ
Shot AJ
Defence hyman

Forechecking against 3rd pairing is not the same as bs 1st pairing guys and neither brown nor AJ forechecking as hard as hyman.

AJ is extremely comparable to brown but a bit more skilled and brown is invisible ATM. AJ could do it.

As I've said we don't have a hyman replacement yet. We could replace him but it would be a player with a different skill set so more of an adjustment for the line. AJ could slot into browns spot, play the same game and bring more to the table right now.

Also let's not make this yet another hyman thread because it's very tangential to the talk we are having

Line works with Brown on it, check

I'm just pointing out the inconsistencies in your argument, Brown is doing the Hyman job on that line, it's working but we should change it up anyway because it's sure to be better with a less experienced smaller player who hasn't played in an NHL top 9 role yet except for a couple of games in essentially garbage time

This is incredibly similar to the Hyman debate, lines working but it's just got to be better with a different dude on it, zero proof but I just know it in my bones even though that lines going right now
 

saltming

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Line works with Brown on it, check

I'm just pointing out the inconsistencies in your argument, Brown is doing the Hyman job on that line, it's working but we should change it up anyway because it's sure to be better with a less experienced smaller player who hasn't played in an NHL top 9 role yet except for a couple of games in essentially garbage time

This is incredibly similar to the Hyman debate, lines working but it's just got to be better with a different dude on it, zero proof but I just know it in my bones even though that lines going right now
There is no inconsistency. I've always maintained that we don't have a player that does hymans job in the lineup and if we did I would be open to seeing what could happen. The name I threw out constantly was Tkachuk.
AJ can replace brown. Has all the tools and is showing the aptitude. There is no inconsistency
 

MR4

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There is no inconsistency. I've always maintained that we don't have a player that does hymans job in the lineup and if we did I would be open to seeing what could happen. The name I threw out constantly was Tkachuk.
AJ can replace brown. Has all the tools and is showing the aptitude. There is no inconsistency
And why is there a necessity to have a Hyman type player on the 1st line? You don't think Nylander would consider passing to a more skilled winger thus making himself more dangerous if Hyman who he acts like isn't even there is off the line?
 

saltming

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And why is there a necessity to have a Hyman type player on the 1st line? You don't think Nylander would consider passing to a more skilled winger thus making himself more dangerous if Hyman who he acts like isn't even there is off the line?
I think I answered that but again @ me in the hyman thread if you want to talk about hyman
 

ponder

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If it is a tie it goes to the veteran, so that means Kapanen and Johnsson should both stay in the line-up ;)

Honestly, I'm positive Kapanen is going to stay over Johnsson for three reasons:
1. Kapanen fills the available roles better (He's a good-great PKer, can be physical when playing on the 4th line, and is better defensively).
2. Kapanen killed it last year in the playoffs vs. WSH.
3. Kapanen has been up with the Leafs longer than Johnsson, while Johnsson was brought up due to Komorov's injury and Kap's done nothing wrong to lose his spot.

Komorov is going to get in because Babcock trusts him more and playing Boston or TBL means we need good defensive players to succeed.

Next year Johnsson and Kapanen should both be top 9 guys for Toronto. Something like the following:

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Marleau - Kadri - Marner
Johnsson - Bozak - Kapanen
Komorov - XXX - Brown

Although I would like to see a Johnsson - Nylander - Kapanen line ;)
Agreed with everything here. Although, if we're playing around with lineups for next year, my dream offseason/lineup is:
  • Sign Tavares
  • Brown + Zaitsev + pick (2nd or 3rd rounder?) for Tanev
  • Let JvR, Bozak, Pleks and Polak walk, trade Martin and Leivo (still don't really see a spot for him), re-sign Leo if he's willing to take a 4th line salary (otherwise sign a UFA 4th liner). All of these moves save a lot of cap space, makes room for JT, and can fill the holes by moving Johnsson/Kapanen up the lineup
Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Marleau - Tavares - Marner
Johnsson - Kadri - Kapanen
Grundstrom - Aaltonen/UFA - Komarov/UFA

Rielly - Tanev
Gardiner - Hainsey
Dermott - Carrick

Andersen
McElhinney/Pickard/Sparks
 

Battle Lin

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leo is huge for us defending leads in the 3rd and on the PK, and he plays a physical game, perfect 12th forward
 

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